Is GW the worse President in the last 70 years?

Wasnt there only a total of 4 or 5 american deaths in iraq last month?

 

I never said we've won. I said we are winning. Please join us in the proper tense.

I said it seems that they have been defeated. I don't claim to have a crystal ball. I can't say definitively that they have been defeated. Also the term "defeat" is somewhat open to interpretation. There's a story of some Japanese who held out until the 50s. It doesn't mean the Japanese weren't defeated in the 40s. http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/marianas_anatahan.html

A very steep downward trend that has existed for about a year depending on where you draw the trend lines. It's only speculation if you're predicting the future. The chart is just a visual depiction of what has already occurred in recent history.

Yet you seem to be smitten by me.

They sure seem to be losing.

 

No that's just speculation!! It's could turn out to be 4 or 5 gazillion deaths for last month if the insurgents figure out a way to warp space-time!! As long as we are unsure that the insurgents possess time-travel technology required to change past data, all data gathered so far must be regarded as entirely speculative and subject to change.

 

I know what you mean. They pulled out some space vortex technology and opened a rift so they could go back and change history, therefore preventing the surge. That time they went and instead of being destroyed by american forces and weakened they continued to wreck havoc all over.

 

so the only death that is actually a DEATH is the american death?

What about people blowing up markets and all that stuff that was happening there since the beginning of this invasion? Strange, Saddam is dead, but people still dying, aint it?

 

All deaths are down.

 

thats up to 2006, not "bad" at all

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/oct/19/foreignpolicy.politics


Whats this page about, do you know? :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_conflict_in_Iraq_since_2003

over 1 mln??

 

I don't believe an accurate death toll exists. Look further into how they get those numbers. Also consider the source, that most of those numbers come from very anti-war groups.

Also, the US didn't invade Iraq because it gives George Bush a hard on to kill people. Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions for 13 years after starting a war that united most of the world against it.

Saddam was a threat to the security of the world and he had 13 years to comply but decided not to.
Now with a little luck, you'll have a democratically elected(something you probably don't understand alot, being Russian) government in Iraq that will allow the people to live their lives without fear that their crazy dictator leader will invade their neighbors for their oil, and that their leader will not steal all of the oil riches their countries has for himself.

A lot of Germans and Japanese died at the hands of Americans(and likewise many Americans died) in WWII but we also played a big part in getting them back on their feet and helping to make them great countries. The people of Germany and Japan have lived in free and prosperous nations for generations now in no small part because of the US's dedication to freedom around the world. How much better is the world today because of Japan and Germany? And would they exist today in current form if it wasn't for the US's belief in the evil of communism and its willingness to defend freedom? You could draw the same parallels to Iraq. We didn't start the war with Iraq, we are just finishing it, and if it works the world will be a much better place.

What has Russia ever done to help defend freedom around the world? Did they support a free, democratic Germany? No, they walled off Berlin. What about invading Afghanistan in order to help bring it under communist rule, or crushing resistance in Hungary or Prague or Poland?

There's an argument that the US kills people needlessly, that we stick our noses where it doesn't belong. It's an argument worthy of discussion but it turns out to not be very valid when you actually look at the history and what the US has historically fought against.

I think the US took a much more aggressive approach to foreign policy after WWII. We realized that we couldn't sit on the sidelines and let tyranny and oppression flourish because in the long run the whole world will have to pay. When you support freedom, the cost may seem high, but in the long run the whole world wins.

PS. You know who we get most of our oil from? Our neighbors to the north, Canada. We would never consider invading them because they are a free, decent nation that poses no threat to the world. Can Russia say the same of its past relationships with its neighbors?

 

So you want us to be able to control the millions of people in that nation. And to stop every single one of them from killing one another. We are not going out and encouraging them to kill one another. We would of been out of Iraq ages ago if the Sunnis and shiates would stop going at each other. But they have been fighting for centuries and seemingly still want to.


And Logic Flux you are one hell of a person. I love your posts. Full of truth and you are right on. You are without doubt up there as being one of the best debaters here.

 

What's funny is that even though I have not been paying attention to geopolitics for the last month or so, I still smoke everyone in this forum in knowing what is going on in Iraq, and not just the Fox News version.

GRIM, you're fighting a losing battle my friend. Some people will post mindless jingoism until the end, they are simply incapable of seeing the bigger picture, exercising a conscience or standing consistently for any principle.

It will turn out, how it turns out. The nation is broke. The Russian Bear has woken up. The world will continue to change, and our time as the lone superpower will also come to pass. Shame we didn't do more good for ourselves, and through us, the world during that time. Hopefully we get a second chance to make things right.

@Baconbits, the way to get more business to your Absorbent website is to download "Real Link Finder", use it to locate blogs you can comment on, and build backlinks. You have a lousy SEM profile, I think spending an hour a day on your site, instead of arguing in P&R (or kissing LogixFlux's ass), could be very profitable. Oh, and the 4 images on your landing page should have alt and title attributes properly defined. I'm really anal about that.

 

I second that. Good to see others putting grim in his place and letting him expose his continued disappointment in the success of the Surge. I have no idea how people can be so shallow and inconsiderate. I suppose if one is against the war strong enough, due to popularity, giving credit to those responsible for success would be hard to do for some.

Keep up the good work, Logic Flux. Your arguments are well presented and sourced, unlike the "opinions" of a few defeatists.

 

That's why I haven't even bothered reading the posts above.

'Winning' appears to have come down to less of our troops being killed = winning in most peoples minds on here.

When in fact if we leave and all hell breaks out that is far from winning as we caused the conditions to become ripe for civil war in Iraq.

Violence being down is great, it however is far from 'winning' I guess we changed the meaning of what we were fighting for so many times that one can argue finding sand in Iraq is 'winning' should they need to.

 

Gtec has by far made the best points in the P & R section of DP.

 

You really need to put down the crack pipe once in awhile.

Just because a point sounds good as it backs up your stance does not equate it to being accurate.

 

He does not always back my point up. He smokes everyone and then they can't give a repsonse.

 

Bahh you've got to be kidding me

he 'smokes everyone' you have not been around here long enough.

The only reason I for instance don't respond to him anymore as it's like feeding a troll, me and others on here have destroyed his lame ass arguments so many times it has gotten old.

If you consider that 'smoking people' because he continues with the same old debunked info over and over I guess this world really does need some help.

 

I haven't read the thread, but back in the day, he was the poster boy for jingoism and propaganda. I certainly hope that has changed.

 

Someone is full of themselves, as usual.

I agree with this part.

 

Sadly it hasn't, that is why he is on permanent ignore until he wakes up to reality

I hope one of these days he will..

 

I do not know about "back in the day" but for the last few weeks he has been like the terminator.

YOu have been like that before on a few subjects as well before your break but you have been away.