I think I finally understand what's going on here. SEOs (such as the folks in this thread) are not happy with Google's placement of their sites after the Jagger update, so they're spreading the word that MSN and Yahoo are superior search engines. Does anyone have a source that demonstrates that actual users are complaining about Google's search engine relevancy?
Well I never said that either Yahoo! or MSN were superior SE's and I think if you look at the multiple threads posted here at DP you'll see theres alot more folks than those posting on this thread that were disapointed in what the G update did with their SERPs. Having said that I have been searching for more definitive info on the issues of relevancy related to the G update. There have been many examples given here at DP already of less than relevant results from folks who study such things with a passion here. If an SE result is irrelevant for an seo search or webmaster it's irrelevant for an end user. I think the point is the issue of relevancy effects everybody using the service no matter what service you are using... By the way... really like the name... "torunforever". I might change mine to "towalkbrisklyforever..."
From an SEO's perspective, I definitely don't know what I'm talking about, but from a search engine end user's perspective, I most certainly do. I realize a lot of people here at DigitalPoint are becoming disillusioned with Google, but most of the people here are talking with their SEO hats on. If you want to prove to me that real users are getting lousy results from Google, please point me to a source that demonstrates this is happening all over the place. michael_angeloh, I just read your post, and you make some very good points. SEOs would indeed know well what's relevant and what's not, but still I think their opinions may be biased. I may seem like a Google fanboy, but I think I'm going to expand my horizons and use a mixture of MSN, Yahoo, and Google for my every day searches.
Good idea my friend... If anything thats one of the things I learned from this recent Google update. Remove the total fixation on Google being the center of the SE universe and use more of a smorgasboard approach not just for SEO but for searches, pix, audiofiles, advertising. I believe this process has helped some of us break the co-addictive love-hate association we've had with Google. I still respect Google immensely, I just know now that there not the only game in town anymore...
After a few hours of using Google, MSN, and Yahoo in a non-SEO capacity, so far I'd rank Google and MSN at about the same, and Yahoo a bit behind them. I've just been doing basic searches for whatever I would normally search for. Nothing fancy. Just the kind of search a typical user might be doing. While I'm doing this informal experiment, I'll keep reading around what SEOs have to say. I realize it's entirely possible Google is losing its edge.
People like quality much more than they like "fresh". Good sites that update regularly do just fine in google, thank you very much. On the other hand, I can (and have) made absolutely horrible sites hit the top 5 (and frequently #1) on MSN. A co-worker of mine had the #2 result for the keyphrase "income tax" for several months (only beat out by the IRS site). There's absolutely no logical reason why this should happen, ever, unless he's managing the SEO campaign for H & R block or the taxing entity of some other major country. I'm hard pressed to think of any site that I'm responsible for that doesn't dominate MSN's SERPS for every keyword that we even make half an attempt at targeting. Of course, it's irrelevant since google still sends us 10 times as much traffic.
Well your example peaked my curiosity so heres the Top-10 results for the keyword "income tax" from both Google and MSN. You be the judge on who won the relevancy contest for this one: [right off the bat I'd say Google might be having their taxes done by an accountant in "India" (see rank pos #3 & 5) and MSN is using the "Mormons". (see rank pos #1 & 2) I think I'd go with the Mormon's on this one.... Note: I disabled the links because I wasnt sure if that was anti-DP tos...] ------------------------------------------- GOOGLE TOP-10 RESULTS for the KEYWORD "INCOME TAX" ------------------------------------------- IRS.gov HomeThe US government agency responsible for tax collection and tax law enforcement. Includes income tax forms, instructions, and agency publications. irs.gov/[/url] - 17k - Cached - Similar pages Forms and PublicationsSkip To Main Content Skip Past Header Home | Accessibility | Tax Stats | About ... and publications resource page, the official source of IRS tax products. ... irs.gov/formspubs/[/url] - 16k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from irs.gov[/url] ] Income Tax Department, Delhi, IndiaThe web site of Income Tax Department, Delhi, gives comprehensive information to a Delhi based citizen of India on all his tax related issues, ... incometaxdelhi.nic.in/ - 17k - Cached - Similar pages IRS.gov HomeThe IRS has granted tax relief to victims of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita and is monitoring the situation in Florida with Hurricane Wilma. ... irs.ustreas.gov/[/url] - 17k - Cached - Similar pages itaxIncome Tax Department Official Website,Home Page,Main Page. incometaxindia.gov.in/ - 79k - Cached - Similar pages Individual Income Tax Rates-2005NEW HAMPSHIRE, State Income Tax is Limited to Dividends and Interest Income Only. ... (e) A special tax table is available for low income taxpayers reducing ... taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.html[/url] - 96k - Cached - Similar pages Income Tax ActFull text of the act, with an interactive table of content. laws.justice.gc.ca/en/I-3.3/ - 35k - Cached - Similar pages Franchise Tax Board - HomepageThe department that collects state personal income taxes and bank and corporation taxes for the State of California. Access to forms and tax information. ftb.ca.gov/[/url] - 23k - Cached - Similar pages Franchise Tax BoardProvides state personal and business income tax forms and information. ftb.ca.gov/forms/[/url] - 18k - Cached - Similar pages LII: Law about...Income TaxLII: An overview of income tax law with links to key primary and secondary sources. law.cornell.edu/topics/income_tax.html[/url] - 8k - Cached - Similar pages ------------------------------------------- MSN TOP-10 RESULTS for the KEYWORD "INCOME TAX" ------------------------------------------- Utah Income Tax Utah State Tax Commission 210 North 1950 West Salt Lake City, UT 84134 Phone: 801.297.2200 Toll-free: 800.662.4335 Text Only & Site Map | Contact the Utah State Tax Commission incometax.utah.gov Cached page City of Columbus - Income Tax ... The Columbus Income Tax Division administers the income taxes for: Brice Canal Winchester Columbus Groveport Harrisburg Lithopolis Marble Cliff Obetz The Columbus Income Tax Division also administers the ... columbustax.net[/url] Cached page 11/4/2005 LII: Law about...Income Tax LII: An overview of income tax law with links to key primary and secondary sources. Law about... collection home search tell me more donate income tax law: an overview In 1913, the ... .law.cornell.edu/topics/income_tax.html[/url] Cached page Income Tax Treaties ... Tax Treaty with Italy - Technical Explanation The complete texts of the following income tax treaties and corresponding technical explanations are available in Adobe PDF format. Please read the entire ... irs.gov/businesses/corporations/article/0,,id=96739,00.html[/url] Cached page Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) Can Lower Federal Tax Liabilities ... ... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) Can Lower Federal Tax Liabilities - Ask How! The Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) sometimes called the Earned Income Credit (EIC), is a refundable federal income tax ... irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96406,00.html[/url] Cached page Show more results from "www.irs.gov". Canadian Income Tax ... mail your resume if interested. CLICK HERE TO SUBSCRIBE TO TAXNEWSLETTER - FREE CANADIAN INCOME TAX NEWS For a Canadian legal web site click here David J. Rotfleisch C.A., LL.B. Rotfleisch ... taxpage.com[/url] Cached page Income tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Income tax From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Jump to: navigation , search This article needs to be cleaned up to conform to a higher standard of quality. This article has been tagged since August 2005. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax Cached page DFA | Office of Income Tax Administration | Home ... Arkansas Department of Finance & Administration Office of Income Tax Administration DFA Home DFA Offices AASIS Alcoholic Beverage Control > ABC Administration ABC Enforcement Accounting > Internal Audit ... arkansas.gov/dfa/income_tax/tax_index.html[/url] Cached page Online Tax Filing, Income Tax Preparation, File Taxes Online Introducing the Online Tax Filing Solution for Income Tax Preparation That is Fast, Simple and Secure! File Taxes Online with Complete Tax. Try it FREE! Introducing the Online ... harfordaccounting.com Cached page 11/4/2005 Income Tax Course correspondence school preparation courses Nationally accredited correspondence courses for income tax preparation and tax consulting approved sponsor for CPE courses National Tax Training School correspondence federal income tax course Since ... ---------------------------------------------------
I think readers of this thread are getting confused. No one is saying "Wow we love MSN's results" or "Wow Yahoo is the best". We are discussing the fact that some of us think Google is loosing ground. I mean lets all be honest, I dont think any SE's results are amazing, and personally I dont think any are totally horrible either (except for during extreme updates ). Also to the comment people like "Quality over Fresh", I just dont think thats true. It really depends on what you are looking for, and Google is no better judge of quality than any other SE. I made a comment earlier that I hope google looses market share, so we are not so completely dependant on them, or any of their whims. Think of it this way, I much rather be judged by 10 men, than one.
Good point. And I know you're only using the number 10 as an example, but this thread has focused only on Google, MSN, and Yahoo. What's the opinion on the other major players?
How on earth are MSN's results more relevant for that query? Google yields the most likely thing people are looking for at #1, and a tax entity for another major english-speaking, tech-savvy country as #2. MSN lists local tax information for a state with a total population of less than a million households as #1. How on earth is that relevant? Unless you happen to live in Utah (or own Microsoft Stock), there's no way that you'd think MSN's results are superior. Statistically, Google has been continually gaining market share month after month (barring the major drops they received when Microsoft & Yahoo stopped using them as search providers, of course). Anecdotally, I've yet to see a single website that I'm responsible for gain significant percentages in Yahoo or MSN over the last year or so. You want some even better examples of why MSN's results are so terrible? 1.) Search for "Pregnant" (the first two results on MSN are PORN, using the DEFAULT filter; google doesn't yield porn in the SERPS for terms like this even with safe search turned off completely) 2.) Search for "Whitehouse" - MSN yields the old favorite whitehouse.com (no longer a porn site, now just a general-purpose spam site) as #2. 3.) Searching for "MySQL" -- the site you'd most likely be looking for is buried halfway down the page on MSN. Those were just one-off examples. As a user, I find MSN's results downright laughable. Yahoo's are generally pretty decent, but the huge number of spam sites that yahoo has failed to filter out (mostly sites designed for the sole purpose of ad revenue) keep me from using it on a regular basis. If MSN wasn't the default home page for the default web browser installed on 90% of the world's personal computers, it would not even be a significant player in this industry, and Microsoft knows it. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a huge improvement to the search, as it ultimately benefits me (as a consumer), but right now I can't see how any average user could possibly want to use MSN over Google if they actually are aware that google exists in the first place (doing tech support for 2 years taught me that most people don't even know what the address bar is. They open up their browsers, type in what they want at the MSN search prompt, and go about their business). Hell, most of my websites have their domain name as the number one search term.
Quite possibly... I would say that if you look back through the corporate fortune 500 for the richest companies in America in the past 50 years it's not difficult to find #1 top global grossing companies who seemed invincable during their day, year or decade and subsequenly vanished with in the passage of time. I know it's dated but I remember when Polaroid came out with that camera with the instantaneous auto-photo delivery system. They could'nt hire enough people to count the money fast enough. Anybody heard of Polaroid...? I'm sure theres more contemporary examples. Google has been an incredibly resourceful and innovative company who like others before, planted it's seed idea in at the right time. I think they'll continue to do well but that doesn't mean they can't loose market share to something better, more innovative and the new seed idea yet to come. Yes Google's still the best but after the recent update I think more than a few folks found a fracture in their faith... I hope that fracture doesn't become a fissure... Oh... and I'd like my SERPs back please...
Novell, IBM(they've had to re-create their business from their old mainframe days), etc.? Everything falls from the top eventually... -- Derek
Been doing a little looking around to see what stats are available for Search Engine Market Share rankings. The most recent report seems to be for August 2005. If these figures are accurate it would seem although Google is still quite dominant, Yahoo and MSN do seem to be gaining ground. JULY 2005 Google: 39.3% Yahoo: 18.1% MSN: 15.3% Source: hitwise.com Link: http://www.clickz.com/stats/sectors/search_tools/article.php/3528456 AUGUST 2005 Google: 37.3% Yahoo: 29.7% MSN: 15.8% Time Warner Network 9.6% Ask Jeeves 6.0% Source: ComScore Networks Link: http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=171202724
Here is a story from last month... Shows G and MSN with slight gains in market share.... And Yahoo slightly dropping. Http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=171202724
Seems like I've seen these Search Engine market share reports in variance with each other depending on the survey. Really dont know who would be a consistant and reliable source for this kind of data..? If anyone finds one please let us know. I'd really be interested to see the longer term effects of these updates on the user and if it's causing folks to use more of a mix between Google Yahoo! and MSN for their search results...
I just look at my keywords referrals where I happen to be #1 on all 3 SE's. I don't have many like that as some tend to be #2 or #3, but in the case where I can make a judgement based on all being ranked the same. Google is twice the traffic of yahoo which is twice the traffic of msn. For my keywords thats how it is. Google by far dominates as much as I'd prefer all 3 to be neck-in-neck. Ask Jeeves? Not even on my radar screen.
Although the SEO community has a number of these stories I don't beleive the average consumer has responded negatively to Google's update activity. My own data, from a number of campaigns shows: Google 72% MSN 16% Yahoo 12%. Admittedly this is UK, where Google tends to be stronger than US/Canada.
Not MSN - though it indexes most of all pages at my site. Y! - sure - it was giving 10-15% of traffic - today almost 30%!!!