Is Google Ditching Pagerank for Orion?

Discussion in 'Google' started by Cifra, Sep 29, 2007.

  1. #1
    From ZDnet:

    Perhaps Google is starting to incorporate Orion — the search algorithm invented by Australian student, Ori Allon, and snatched up by Google. When the news first broke, Ori said he expected the algorithm to be complete within 18 months. How long ago was that? Oh, about 18 months ago.


    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Google/


    What do you think?
     
    Cifra, Sep 29, 2007 IP
  2. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #2
    I though Orion was a search algorithim. What does it have to do with pagerank?
     
    bogart, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  3. ScottDaMan

    ScottDaMan Peon

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    #3
    Where can I learn more about this?
     
    ScottDaMan, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  4. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #4
    Orion determines ranking by scoring relevant phrases
     
    bogart, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  5. Nora

    Nora Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Wouldn't that only lead to people adding keywords everywhere instead of real content? I like the pagerank idea more..
     
    Nora, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  6. Cifra

    Cifra Well-Known Member

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    #6
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ori_Allon

    The algorithm, or search engine tool, is called Orion and was developed by UNSW PhD student Ori Allon at the university's School of Computer Science.

    Orion works as an add-on to existing search engines to improve the relevance of searches and won praise from Microsoft founder Bill Gates last year.

    The algorithm is a problem-solving computational procedure and is the building block for all search engines such as those operated by Google and Yahoo!

    Orion finds pages where the content is about a topic strongly related to the key word. It then returns a section of the page, and lists other topics related to the key word so the user can pick the most relevant.

    The results of the query are displayed immediately in the form of expanded text extracts, giving the searcher the relevant information without having to go to the website - although there is still that option.

    Mr Allon, a 26-year-old computer scientist, was born in Israel but came to study at Melbourne's Monash University in the '90s. After completing his bachelor and masters degrees, he moved to UNSW to further his studies and research.

    The Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz reported on Sunday that Google had acquired Mr Allon's advanced text search algorithm.

    Mr Andrew Stead, the business development manager at UNSW's NewSouth Innovations agency confirmed that Mr Allon left Australia six weeks ago and was now working at Google's headquarters at Mountain View, California.

    Mr Stead said the move was not a secondment; Mr Allon's move was permanent.

    Some work on the project, however, would continue to be undertaken by Mr Allon's supervisor in Sydney, Dr Eric Martin.

    Mr Stead confirmed that the university had held talks with the big three internet search operations: Google, Yahoo! and MSN.

    Beyond confirming that Mr Allon was now working for Google, Mr Stead was not able to confirm any other of the reported details.

    However, given Google's desire to continue dominating the search business and the fact that there were other interested parties, the deal could potentially be worth millions.

    While Mr Allon is the key person behind Orion, the university retains ownership of the intellectual property as it was developed within the university's research facilities.

    Mr Stead said Mr Allon, who is an Australian citizen, hoped to complete his PhD with the university and one day hoped to return to Australia.
     
    Cifra, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  7. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #7
    Any word on what is going on with Orion now?
     
    bogart, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  8. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #8
    I haven't heard anything actually. I was looking through some docs earlier today and came across Orion... I have forgotten about that actually.

    There hasn't been much word on it in a while....
     
    thegypsy, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  9. mark123456

    mark123456 Peon

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    #9
    couldnt google just use pagerank with orion..merge the algorithms or something??
     
    mark123456, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  10. FastWeb

    FastWeb Peon

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    #10
    So is Orion a search result relevancy algorithm, or a ranking system?

    If it's the former, then how can it replace pagerank?
     
    FastWeb, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  11. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #11
    Joe.... I am just finishing up a post called - Whatever happened to Orion - I should have it slapped up in my BLog shortly... I have a ton of relevant links and discussions from the time.... so hang in there...

    I want to see if anyone knows anything...

    Ok I posted - Whatever happened to Orion? and then gave it a Sphinn to see if anyone out there has heard anything ....

    Maybe it is still Top Secret .... or maybe the concepts and technologies are being rolled into other projects/patents ... U just never know.
     
    thegypsy, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  12. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #12
    Thanks for the additional info. Perhaps Google bought it to keep it away from Bill Gates.
     
    bogart, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  13. FastWeb

    FastWeb Peon

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    #13
    Interesting read TG, but when I tried to Digg it, it popped me back to your page with an error that I didn't have access to that resource. I think I broke the internets... I gave it a stumble before it locked me out, though.

    It wouldn't surprise me if Google has already implemented some of the technology, at least behind the scenes. A full roll out would require a complete re-tooling of the search engine and all the result pages, and I just don't see that happening any time soon.

    Bogie is probably right - Google just wanted the talent (Mr. Allon) and the technology (Orion) all to themselves.
     
    FastWeb, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  14. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #14
    It could be or.... they are intergrating the technology elsewhere... or... they are using it and keep everyone busy chasing TBPR instead of the real stuff.... bwaa ha ha ha... most likely.
     
    thegypsy, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  15. WilsonA

    WilsonA Active Member

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    #15
    good point
     
    WilsonA, Oct 1, 2007 IP
  16. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #16
    OK, I haven't heard much yet, but Dave Davies whom wrote a very involved piece at the time dropped by and seems to feel aspects of it ended up in the personalized search area.... I am waiting to hear back from Bill (Slawski) on his thoughts....

    I also have a sneaking suspicion that it was canabalized and put into other areas of the Google algos..... who knows though....

    I shall post anything I hear....
     
    thegypsy, Oct 2, 2007 IP
  17. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #17
    Certainly possible on both the personalized search and canabalization
     
    bogart, Oct 2, 2007 IP
  18. davewashere

    davewashere Active Member

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    #18
    I can't see Google adding Orion as a whole to their main search, but I would expect them to implement it in various ways to improve their search results, especially with personalized search.
     
    davewashere, Oct 2, 2007 IP
  19. Volvospeed

    Volvospeed Active Member

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    #19
    Page rank and search results are totally different. Page rank is not based on relevancy. So "merging" the systems would make no since. Would be like merging the Kelvin scale and ft/lb.
     
    Volvospeed, Oct 2, 2007 IP
  20. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #20
    OK.. to add to this I heard back from a cohort that said,

    So all has been quiet on that front really .... more if I hear anything else.
     
    thegypsy, Oct 2, 2007 IP