Is Economic Liberty necessary for Personal Liberty?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by guerilla, Jan 28, 2008.

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Is it possible to be free, if you are not economically free?

  1. Yes

    42.9%
  2. No

    50.0%
  3. Not sure/Don't understand

    7.1%
  1. #1
    If we broadly define Personal Liberty as "freedom", is it possible to be "free" if you do not have the freedom to keep what you earn, define how much you can work and earn, define your own personal contract rates for investments, savings, donations etc.?
     
    guerilla, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  2. lightless

    lightless Notable Member

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    #2
    True economic freedom is not having to earn at all in my opinion.
    Having to earn money to live is a tyranny of sorts.

    But yeah, economic liberty limits personal liberty.
    A man who has no economic liberty or depends on someone else is a slave.
     
    lightless, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  3. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #3
    The ancient Athenians believed that you should not work for someone more than siz months or you were a slave.
     
    bogart, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  4. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #4
    If everyone kept all their money to themselves, them how would a country operate?

    For example, where would the money come from to pay for a fighter jet, fuel, pilots wages & everything else related to a fighter jet, to protect you when a country decides to bomb you or your country?
     
    Toopac, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  5. iul

    iul Well-Known Member

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    #5
    It depends on how much the money you give to your government affects your life. There's no such a thing as absolute freedom anyway
     
    iul, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  6. Rub3X

    Rub3X Well-Known Member

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    #6
    15% SS tax
    15-30% federal tax
    State tax

    Then once I finally get my money and I want to buy anything, I have to pay a sales tax. Now figure in inflation and currency devaluation. What's the point of even working? Over 50% of what I make is down the shitter before I even get my paycheck.
     
    Rub3X, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  7. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #7
    Great discussion guys, keep it going. I'll chime in with my thoughts later. But really great responses so far, thank you!
     
    guerilla, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  8. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #8
    There is a cost for freedom and it is in $$$.

    Money isn't everything, but some people seem to only have one focus $$$. What a sad life, to live for the $ and die leaving it all behind.
     
    debunked, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  9. Hon Daddy Dad

    Hon Daddy Dad Peon

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    #9
    True freedom is having no attachments and no aversions.
     
    Hon Daddy Dad, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  10. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #10
    hmm, idk i'm thinkin something like

    OWNED.

    but idk that's just me :eek:
     
    ncz_nate, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  11. emergencypornstar

    emergencypornstar Active Member

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    #11
    I agree. It is impossible to be free if you are restraint in your living. If you constantly think about consuming, then, it isn't possible to be free. Unless if you are a billionaire, but even the richest people in the world can't buy everything they want. Be homeless, or move to another country and be a monk.
     
    emergencypornstar, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  12. Markas

    Markas Well-Known Member

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    #12
    Not sure/Don't understand

    :)
     
    Markas, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  13. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #13
    I believe some are not aware of how good they have it. Surely this is yet another reason why "America sucks" and only RP can save the world?
     
    GTech, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  14. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #14
    we should be thankful for this dictatorship.
     
    ncz_nate, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  15. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #15
    Let's try to keep it on topic guys. I'd like to discuss the issues if possible without the sidebars or partisanship. Strictly philosophy. Thanks! :)
     
    guerilla, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  16. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #16
    Property taxes are the worst. At least with an income tax you can stop working hard or with a vat tax stop buying. But property taxes have to be paid or you will be in the street.
     
    bogart, Jan 28, 2008 IP
  17. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #17
    Equating a post about being overtaxed to a post saying tax is needed is stupid & immature, the fact remains countries don't run on water.

    If anyone thinks taxes are not needed then lets stick them all on an island,
    they can then run their own country lol
     
    Toopac, Jan 29, 2008 IP
  18. gauharjk

    gauharjk Notable Member

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    #18
    When you have money in the pocket, you automatically have more confidence, can deal with issues, solve problems, make others happy, enjoy life..... Every thing depends on money IMO...
     
    gauharjk, Jan 29, 2008 IP
  19. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #19
    Wanted to bring this one back. I think iul and I have had some pretty good debates on laissez-faire capitalism vs. socialism, and I would say that is pretty much the subject matter here.

    I was really surprised to see the votes so even.

    If I understand this correctly, many people don't see welfare -or- taxation as compromising freedom. Sound right?
     
    guerilla, Jan 31, 2008 IP
  20. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #20
    About right.
     
    Toopac, Jan 31, 2008 IP