PLEASE NO VIOLENCE IN MY THREAD. I AM HAVING THESE DOUBTS SINCE MANY DAYS. PLEASE CLARIFY MY DOUBT. MY QUESTION IS: There are many strong sentences written in Bible that "Jesus(PBUH) is not a god. He is Just a messenger sent by God". But still why christians agree that Jesus is a god? Well, Many christians say that Jesus Father is also God. Few say that Jesus father doesnt exist. So he is not a god. And Few say that Both are Gods. I really dont understand If God is only one..Then who is the real god. Jesus or Jesus father? If Jesus is a God then why Many churches write these words "Jesus is Son of God" It was clearly written in Bible that Jesus himself was sent by God. Below are the sentences copied from Bible: The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses: (i) "… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me." [The Bible, John 14:24] (ii) "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent." [The Bible, John 17:3] The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses: (i) "… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me." [The Bible, John 14:24] (ii) "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent." [The Bible, John 17:3] 4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible: "And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’ And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ " [The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17] Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh). If Jesus (PBUH) Refused himself that he is not a God.Then why many christians call him as a God. I kindly request everyone to read many points from here : http://www.islam101.com/religions/christianity/conceptGod.htm
I love these posts from desperate islamists who are trying to confuse people - copy and paste from some site, poorly researched and actually just designed to mislead. If you read what Jesus wrote, you will see much more than what is posted here. He shows the authority the Father (God, YHWH) has given Him. Jesus (Yeshua) is the Son of God. All man (human) and all God. What He did confuses those of cults and religions, because they want to make God in their image and control what "god" can or cannot do. It will be interesting to see people arguing with God in heaven telling Him what He can't do.
Yes, these sentences are just copy paste from Bible. I am not a such person to change Original bible quotes to new edition or 2nd edition. Holy books are not edited. I have copy pasted those words and i have asked few questions based on those verses.. Please answer my question if you are true chirstian. Please tell me who is your God? Jesus said very clearly that he is not a god. Then you people treat him as a god? Please check these verses: Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity: Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible: "And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’ And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ " [The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17] After reading this, if any peron treat Jesus as a god, then i think he or she is going against to him. (Just think as a human) Ok fine.. Is there anywhere in the whole bible written that " Jesus says i am the Real God. Pray me and Bow your head before me" If not, then why many people bow their headwais before Jesus by treating him as a Real god?? PLEASE NO VOILANCE. I AM JUST ASKING THESE QUESTIONS BASED ON BIBLE VERSES. I AM NOT GOING AGAINST TO ANY RELIGION.
Why do all the islamists not get it when I point out copy and paste? I was not talking about the Bible verses, but the imam's poor attempt to confuse the words written. I don't reply for your benefit, but for those who get drawn in and don't actually research for themselves. People all over the world know what others have told them about the Bible and very few have actually read much of the Bible if not anything (but something like you post at best.) You should go and get your blue avatar - actually is this menji? Since menjis' sole purpose in life is to lie about the Word of God and try to confuse people... hmmm.. I wonder who his master is? Maybe the one who is the master of confusion? (funny what the blue avatars say and how they are the source of disinformation.) I digress. Don't try to sway the argument away from your copy paste and pretend like I am agreeing with the lies from satan about the Bible changing, etc... Meanings of English words change, but not the understanding that the Holy Spirit gives to those who believe in the one and only true God. Now go back to your blue avatar forums and cry about how people have figured out the lies of islam. None of the quoted verses you posted shows anything that Jesus says that He isn't God. Oh, and don't go getting violent on some helpless woman that you try to rape or the neighbors boy, just because you get mad at me.
Flyon In Christianity, we believe in a trinitarian God - Father, son and holy spirit. All 3 are inseparable. Not a lot of people understand this. As Jesus said: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". When Jesus was asked about the father: "Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work". "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood" Simply put, in order for Jesus to come and sacrifice himself for the transgressions of the people, he had to take the human body form "Son". That doesn't mean he is the son of God by marriage or anything such that. There is no marriage in heaven! The holy spirit was given to God to all his faithful Christian people. It can also be given to anyone who puts faith in Jesus. No one can claim Jesus is God without the holy spirit within him.
A worthy being on earth chosen by God, is our interpretation - as one who fully conquered evil while mortal, required for remittance and entitled for deity. Where is debunked coming from - any proof......gohsts under your bed?
If this Emmanuel known as Jesus Christ the Saviour could come to you and say he had stood b4 God what then would be the argument considering it states in the Bible this Saviour/Jesus sits at the right hand of God? (hypothetically speaking)
First of all I want to commend you for asking this as I know a lot of Muslims are searching for the truth. Secondly, you need to differenciate between what Christians are being taught and what in fact scripture teaches. The fact of the matter is that Christianity is based on punchlines rather than sound doctrine and most Christians adopt as truth whatever is popular belief within their congregation. Yeshua had 2 natures, the flesh and the divine. He experienced hunger, pain, fear, all of what we feel. And he overcame it through the divine as he knew the father and showed the following how to overcome the struggles in their lives. In the 1950s televangelist Billy Graham discovered that the "Jesus is God" punchline has managed to gain their movement a lot of followers and with that income for his mission increased. It became one of the many things Christians have been taught to say in order to gain followers. It hardly gets challenged and rather blindly followed and those who do not agree are simply accused of "not understanding scripture properly" and being encourage to "stop doubting". So while it is written that now the divine nature of Yeshua is with the father, the Jesus is God line is something I consider highly overused and overly misleading. As the divine son of God He is with Him. But Him being Him is not something I can see written anywhere. Overall, churches in Europe and America are in the business of winning people into their congregation and you will find that there is a competition which exceeds the simple desire to win souls. It's a big money making operation for many and most followers are not searching for truth if it isn't something their congregation approves. Just like many of you Muslims here disagree over a lot of things as many clerics add their own spin to things. But the biggest difference of course is that in Islam Yeshua is viewed as just a prophet and on the same level as Muhammed (ouch). But in the Gospel it clearly states He has risen and is with the father. So ignore the chants which are based on gaining emotional hype, clear your mind and make up your own. The message is there. Keep it simple and stick to it. You will find so many opinions from church goers. But unless you see written what they say, best is to simply continue reading on your own until you find some who can properly explain something without you thinking "That's not what it really says".
Thanks luke for your great explanation. I have read few tutorials where it was clearly explained that Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. I have just copied these verses from this site : http://saif_w.tripod.com/interfaith/general/god/inchristianity.htm Below sentences are clearly explained that there is no equality in Trinity.
Flyon, You have very good questions. I understand they might seem difficult to grasp, but no one said understanding God should be easy. First of all, I would like to make a point clear on the holy trinity. Eternal God exists in three distinct inseparable persons. Father, son and holy spirit "these qualities were mentioned by Jesus himself". However, this doesn't mean that they cannot have different authorities. God had to send his own son to Earth in order to erase away the transgressions of the humanity. Why send son and not holy spirit? or why not father himself? The son has a very deep meaning here- A father sacrificing his own precious son. Also, son had to take the form of the human body. The old testament taught us that nobody could face God directly..the energy of the holy spirit was so powerful. In fact, Moses had to use a vail and he fainted. The sound of God was like a thunder. So God had to send his own son in the human flesh. This means that son had powers of the holy spirit (as seen from miracles) but the son can also feel human needs like hunger, sleeping and pain. I want to make a point here: In the old testament, people did not have a closer look towards God's nature. Who is God exactly and how loving/caring ect ? and what is God's mission? In the new testament, as we read, God's nature and plans unfold. We see that God is very loving, caring for the world. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". There have been many parables that Jesus used to illustrate this point. God loved the human kind so much that he sacrificed his ONLY son. Now Briefly answering your questions: Jesus admits "..my Father is greater than I" {John 14:28} I understand why this seems to be confusing. As described above, the 3 characters act as one but they have different authorities. As Jesus said it: "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." Even stronger verse: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also." It is very clear that Jesus also has authority by the father. But, Jesus spoke as if they were 1 character. God is given the value and quantity of "Never sleeping: "Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep" (Psalm 121:4). And Yet according to trinity then Jesus is supposed to have this "Equal" power but "Jesus sleeps". True. We are talking about the son of the holy trinity. Of course, God never sleeps. Sleeping is a human and animal nature for resting. Son took the human form; therefore, can sense human needs. How can Jesus be 100% Equal if he worshiped God as any other mortal (Luke 5:16): "And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed." Then if they were equal shouldn't the father also worship the son!? Or the Holy Ghost worshiping Jesus (as)? Jesus prayed for 3 main reasons: 1- As a son showing dependence and guidance by a father with a higher authority in heaven. 2- To show people that there is an ongoing relationship between father, son and holy spirit. When Jesus was baptized, a voice from the sky was heard "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased". The communication during prayers never stopped along Jesus' journey. 3- To teach people and other disciples to pray to God for help and guidance. Jesus was tempted by Satan for forty days (Luke 4:1-13) but in James 1:13 is said: "...for God cannot be tempted with evil.." oups... [/qoute] See above I am confused, If the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "Equal", why doesn't the Bible "consistently" say they are equal instead of giving them and "others" changing values. See above After reading above sentences one more araised to me. My question is: Does trinity is the word araised after the death of Jesus or before his death? Did Jesus ever said that he is the real God until he is alive?[/QUOTE] Trinity was not clear until the new testament. It did exist before the new testament of course and will continue to exist. We have to understand that Son came for a mission. That is to be sacrificed. If God made it clear to the people that he is God, then sacrifice would not be possible because no one would be willing to sacrifice God. That doesn't mean God is deceiving. God knows everyone's intentions. When Jesus asked peter "'Who do men say that I am" ? He answered, some say John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others, one of the prophets. Then Jesus asked him, who am I? and peter said: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." This is a very powerful confession from peter and even peter had to have the holy spirit from God in order to believe. Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone.â€. It is clear that Jesus did not want to reveal his identity as God but he gave a lot of strong hints to the people..even when he was asked directly, he answered directly..yet people did not believe. I hope this helps God bless,
Well, if you look in the scriptures it clearly states that God the Father , God the Son and Holy Spirit all of them are God and they dwell with each other. I believe in Trinity and its one of the hardest thing to explain. Lots of religious people, philosophers and bible believers have debated over this topic. I recommend you to search it in the Google. Its quite an old topic , and i respect your desire to know more.
Luke, very thanks for great explanation. You cleared my doubts in the best and frienldy way..I really liked the way you have explained.. Now, i have understood the concept of trinity. Still i have to do 99.999% research on this concept. I completely agree that gods verses cannot be understood by single reading. We need some deep search on every verse as you said. Thank you luke. Trinity was not clear until the new testament. It did exist before the new testament of course and will continue to exist. We have to understand that Son came for a mission. That is to be sacrificed. If God made it clear to the people that he is God, then sacrifice would not be possible because no one would be willing to sacrifice God. That doesn't mean God is deceiving. God knows everyone's intentions. When Jesus asked peter "'Who do men say that I am" ? He answered, some say John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others, one of the prophets. Then Jesus asked him, who am I? and peter said: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." This is a very powerful confession from peter and even peter had to have the holy spirit from God in order to believe. Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone.â€. It is clear that Jesus did not want to reveal his identity as God but he gave a lot of strong hints to the people..even when he was asked directly, he answered directly..yet people did not believe. I hope this helps God bless,[/QUOTE]
I will assume it is your ability to understand English: copy and paste is the norm for islamists who don't actually read anything in the Bible but what an imam has posted on a site, so that the verses are taken out of context and then made to look like they say something other than it really says - see this site where flyon copied from - http://www.islam101.com/religions/christianity/conceptGod.htm Original thought is harem from what I can see in islam.
debunked: ok - interesting between the two religions. Of course you undoubtably agree with the quote below that was surfaced by this thread - Flyon indeed trolled for scripture and pulled forth the greatest of deceptions. Sadly that anyone ever wrote so evil a verse as the above - Hell with Satin were destroyed as will the author of the above meet the same fate.
I am a Christian and my belief is … that there is a Trinity … God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. I also believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, and sent to this world as a human to die on the cross and be crucified, to offer us an opportunity to be saved from our sins. All the best … Ron
Sad that you want to curse Jesus by the words you just wrote, because He was the one who said it and it is truth. This is the hardest thing for people to believe and it is what He said. Religious people hate that about Jesus - They hate that He had power and authority and that He condemned their religious behaviors and lies in order to control the people and gain power. Nothing has changed, religious people today still hate Jesus for speaking truth, for interrupting their corrupt religious systems.