Iraq Study Group : the war is essentially already lost

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by gworld, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. #1
    The latest details to emerge from the commission's report help flesh out a plan that also calls for the United States to withdraw nearly all combat units by early 2008 while leaving behind tens of thousands of troops to advise, train and embed with Iraqi forces. The report also suggests that the Bush administration open talks with Iran and Syria about ways to end the violence in Iraq and proposes holding a regional conference to bring together all of Iraq's neighbors.
    ...............................
    Although the study group will present its plan as a much-needed course change in Iraq, many of its own advisers concluded during its deliberations that the war is essentially already lost, according to private correspondence obtained yesterday and interviews with participants. The best the commission could put forward would be the "least bad" of many bad options, as former ambassador Daniel C. Kurtzer wrote.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16065621/

    The result of the war so far:

    1- 3000 soldiers killed
    2- Hundreds of thousands Iraqis civilian killed
    3- Civil War in Iraq
    4- More people have joined terrorist groups
    5- It showed that US military is a paper tiger that can not even control Iraq
    6- Iran has become the major power and the power broker in middle east. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Dec 5, 2006 IP
  2. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #2
    Let's fill these holes up.

    "the panel cites 2008 as a goal rather than a firm deadline."

    "The benchmarks laid out for Iraqi forces are similar to goals the Iraqi government recently embraced, the source said. Unlike Bush, though, the commission recommended consequences for not meeting them."
    Iraq's doing this; but nevertheless, Bush should take off his stubborn hat and have talks.


    Your title is misleading. It should be... Iraq Study Group: Many of it's advisors conclude the war is lost...at most. It's best to not even say that, and say Iraq Study Group's Opinion.

    There's no quantity, nor is there names. To just say the group itself has concluded that, is misleading and lacks objectivity. If it was that, the conclusion would differ widely.

    We lost more soldiers on one island (durning world war II), then will ever lose in this war.

    The accuracy of that number is in debate. Millions were dying of starvation before we entered due our sanctions, and Saddam's willful hands in the UN oil-for-food programs. See we just starve the people, and the UN just sets up bogus programs w/Saddam's moderate control. Often the billions just disappear from sight from Al-Queda friendly banks.....

    I find that ten times worse than this. But hey, it's not bloody and media friendly like this...so the wars worse!?

    Instead of one person in charge of killing, now there's a few thousand. I fail to see the interest in calling this that, when planting a bomb in an opposing religions neighborhood is hardly major battlefield conflict.

    No semantic, please.

    People fighting each other over secretarian violence amounts to gang-like activity.

    You kill my brother, now I kill your brother...blue...red. I've seen this shit many times. Just change the colors to religious difference...and there the same artificial reasons.

    World-wide, the financing of terrorist indoctrination via teaching children...does more than this could ever garner. Not that starving the Iraq people before the war made them like us, but those two don't go together, apparently!?
    No, it shows that excessive media and political correctness destroy/impedes military policy. Numerous times we had capabilities to kill certain leaders (we consider enemies), but certain military leaders felt inclined towards political correctness.

    And frankly I don't like you insulting the US military. The only problem it has is the lack of planning from up above, and the constant media hawking. Lord knows half the shit that happened in world war II wouldn't have gone down if they had the people and media of today.

    Patton would be thought of as insane. The media didn't like him then, but the man was beyond his time and frankly didn't give fuck what they thought. He knew that Russia was going to be the enemy, but American's didn't see it yet. We need more Pattons.

    "Let’s keep our boots polished, bayonets sharpened, and present a picture of force and strength to these people the Soviets. This is the only language they understand."--Patton...Except replace solviet with extremists/trouble makers
     
    Rick_Michael, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  3. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #3
    Whatever the semantics the approach of the study group is refreshing compared to everything that has come out of the administration to date.

    A more realistic version of current American involvement in Iraq than what the administration has put forth would be a....

    no win, non-moving forward presence, putting huge pressure on the American military as presently configured, neither quelling violence or effectively and quickly training Iraqi police and military, with ever larger influences from Iran, Syria and probably terrorists taking over portions and populace of Iraq.

    In light of current conditions the study group has looked at these issues in a compromising, hopefully non-partisan way, has interviewed and questioned many experts and will put forth a variety of suggestions and alternatives to try and create a best case going forward based on reality rather than the administration's pronouncements.

    Hopefully the adults will start to take over the direction of the American government.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #4
    How many have to die before you are satisfied that they are dying for nothing and a war can not be won? :rolleyes:
    I suppose it is easy to sit and cheer other people who are dying as long as you are not the one doing it.
     
    gworld, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  5. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #5
    Are you pretending to care about soldiers? Wasn't it just last week, yet again, you stabbed the soldiers you pretend to care about today, in the back by calling them dumb? In the past, when anti-war/pro-terrorist news organizations have alleged charges against US soldiers, haven't you convicted them without trial, yet demand trials for terrorists? Was it not you that started a post to solicit sympathy for an al qaida terrorist? Who are you trying to fool?

    Would it not be fair to point out that you are always willing to claim defeat on behalf of the US? Has that not *always* been your objective? Think about it for a second, really...have you ever started a positive post about the US? I'll answer for you: no. How many negative posts have you made about America? Answer: I couldn't even begin to count.

    Who defines victory and defeat? Gworld? Hardly! We've already won.

    If you don't support America and you don't support the troops and you don't support the majority of the Iraqi people who want peace, there isn't but one group left to support. And we know which group that is, that you never have a bad word for, right?

    Food for thought. Tell me I'm wrong ;)
     
    GTech, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  6. ServerUnion

    ServerUnion Peon

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    #6
    The old adage "either with us or against us" is just that OLD. Not agreeing with what is going on doesn't make you a terrorist but a viable part of a democracy.
     
    ServerUnion, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  7. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #7
    Would be a good point, if in fact someone had actually said that. It's a shame people sell their integrity for so little these days.
     
    GTech, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  8. ServerUnion

    ServerUnion Peon

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    #8
    Maybe I am not reading this right then.
     
    ServerUnion, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  9. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #9
    I believe we can both agree on that.
     
    GTech, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  10. ServerUnion

    ServerUnion Peon

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    #10
    Dont think we will on this one, seen that comment many times from you, not an accident that you throw it out. Sorry to say though my political posts are done for the day. We can discuss more the next time you bring it up ;)
     
    ServerUnion, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  11. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #11
    It seems the new defense minster, many of senators, congressmen and even Bush is admitting to the defeat but what do they know? I am sure as a former corporal, your knowledge about the state of the war is far superior than any member of American government, isn't this what all corporals believe? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  12. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #12
    Are you misrepresenting the truth, yet again? Source for where Bush, Senators and Congressmen have "admitted to defeat?" I won't discount that there are democrats that would sell our country out in a moment's notice to claim victory for our enemies. Essentially that's what you are doing as well, correct? Claiming a win (with no criteria) for the people you support?

    No answers to those tough questions, eh? Pretending to care about soldiers?

    Who do you support? We know it's not America, we know it's not the soldiers and we know you want the US to pull out so the minority terrorist factions can take over in Iraq. Did I miss anything?
     
    GTech, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  13. AGS

    AGS Notable Member

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    #13
    I'm still absolutely amazed it took them that long to figure out that it's complete chaos out there. To all but the most blind of people it is patently obvious that it's been a fookin disaster out there for months and months.

    So a group of people (The Iraq Survey Group) all of a sudden announce this and we are supposed to be surprised??? :rolleyes:
    Mind you, the group consists mainly of coffin dodgers so they are invariably slower to pick up on things than younger people are. :p

    Now all we need is for the 9/11 Commission to admit that they neglected investigating certain events fully from that day and will open it up again and promise to investigate it properly. We might then finally see some progress.

    After all, the main reason for this disaster in the Middle East was stemmed from 9/11.
    The invasion of Afghanistan was in a hunt for Bin Laden, now he's not even mentioned any more. He is wheeled out in a dodgy video clip every now and then, usually at the most oppertune time, then disappears again for a few months. (Speaking of which, we haven't seen one for a while now. As Bush is under more pressure than ever at the moment what's the betting that the CIA are knocking another one up as we speak ;))
    The invasion of Iraq was based on Saddam harbouring WMDs. That turned out to be a total lie.
    So now after all the death and destruction a group of old codgers tell Bush that it's a disaster. I could have told Bush that, or better still, got GTech to email him. :D
     
    AGS, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  14. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #14
    AGS, you're going way over board (as usual) and making lots of assumptions (as usual).

    Do you feel your positions most reflect those of the media on Iraq?

    As usual, you are perpetuating lies that I have corrected you on. Giving credence to what I often point out, that facts simply do not matter to you. I have, time and time again, pointed to WMD in Iraq. To say none were found is simply a lie. Can you honestly say your agenda is so important, that you are willing to live with being a liar? Don't you have any self-esteem?

    Your vision of this panel is as warped as your never ending conspiracy theories that prove if it's on video, you'll get suckered into it.

    Is there anything I can do to help you with your integrity problem? Anything at all?

    It almost sounds like what you are saying is, you want the US to pull out so terrorists can take over Iraq. Is that true? Is that really what you want? You really hate Iraqis that bad? I guess since others fought for your freedoms, they don't mean as much to you.
     
    GTech, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  15. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

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    #15
    Since so many liberals like to compare this war with vietnam, how many people died then?? I think it was far more than 3,000....love it when people actually twist things into what they want to hear.
     
    d16man, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  16. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #16
    I hear ya d16man. There are so many things they *could* legitimately take issue with, and rightfully so, but to just blatantly lie and not have a care in the world about their integrity...it just blows my mind.

    Maybe it's just a lack of home training, but where I come from, blind hatred towards something doesn't excuse blatant lying.

    My guess is, AGS will use the "just because I have a different view" strategy. Posting it before he responds, because it's so easy to predict.
     
    GTech, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  17. AGS

    AGS Notable Member

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    #17
    LMAO do you really believe that?

    Bush rhetoric really has got you spooked hasn't it.
     
    AGS, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  18. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #18
    That question was to you. Did you avoid it on purpose?
     
    GTech, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  19. AGS

    AGS Notable Member

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    #19
    No I didn't.

    Come on GTech even "Rambo" Rumsfeld admitted that there were no WMDs.

    Stop living the dream that there were WMDs to justify the illegal invasion and subsequent disaster that country is now in.
     
    AGS, Dec 6, 2006 IP
  20. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #20
    Twice you've avoided the question:

    Would you agree, that after avoiding it twice, there's probably a substantial probability that it's true? I would and in essence, you just confirmed it through silence.

    I've noted overwhelming evidence that it was not only there, but found and continued to be found. To ignore this, is to ignore reality. Am I also to conclude that credibility is not something that is important to you? It appears you will sell it out for virtually nothing.

    Do your positions on Iraq reflect the positions of the media? Since you continue to avoid that, because by your own standard, that would make you a sheeple, I can only conclude your silence there has a purpose.

    It's amazing when the tough questions come out, based upon the positions that people are willing to share with others, how quiet they get when the truth is exposed.
     
    GTech, Dec 6, 2006 IP