Iran Or Isreal? Who Will Be The Victory?

Impressive post, SharePro. Can't recall reading a more accurate and informed summary of what's going on with Iran.

 

It would be nice if there were no nukes over there in the middle east, including Iran.

 

That would be one way to assure Israel was wiped off the map. I am a lot more comfortable knowing Israel has a deterrent to those nations that wish it did not exist and who would pursue that objective. I like knowing that there is a democracy standing tall in the Middle East. I like knowing that the US has a true ally in the Middle East who shares America's values.

 

it sure would. the point is that where to draw the line that iran would agree.
no matter which side of the argument about war with iran you look at there is the same goal. having a friendly and nuclear weapon free iran.
the difference is that the pro war people want to deal with a different govt and anti war camp want to make a deal with the same people.
now obviously the for peace crowd point to less war as the benefit.and to the low chance of success as the pitfall
it is up to the other side to show how they want to succeed. Just look at all the problems Georgia faces. i think who ever pushed for the Georgian initial attack made a mistake. lets be smart. that is what is missing in the israeli leadership.in my opinion.
do not get me wrong. israel can do major damage to iran but iran has a very high threshold of pain.

 

My grandfather once told me that "life is not some type of a problem you must solve..."

I think about that statement often.

Make no mistake. The only way to live life (and prosper) is by ensuring your not a prisoner of any body else's thoughts, actions or their domain.

Today, there are far more prisoners than there are freeman around the world. So many regimes that limit their own people. An Iranian lady who walks the street without proper dressing is not aforded the same liberties as other women in the states.

An entire people has been taught like a dog to accept they have no rights. They are a prisoner of their own domain. They live in a cube. It's almost as if nobody really does care about those people.

The fact that Iran has such poor internal social welfare speaks for itself. Make no mistake, people are hungry in Iran. The Iranian people are far more intelligent than the average Arab, and they are not "anti American". It's the leaders of the political and military regime who are anti American. Most people only really give a damn about feeding their children, keeping in good health and making ends meet. Don't kid yourself, Iranians are not any less of people than your average American, Mexican, or Indonesian.

But again, like in most cases, the people pay for their so-called "democratically" elected government's stupidity.

For the American's - and most of the western world - slavery ended several hundred years ago. For the rest of the world, slavery (embellished in its political form) is very rapid - known for captivating the people and limiting individual people from expressing themselves (in fear of the regime or government).

In short - FREE THE SLAVES!

 

none of your business fix your country your modesty guards. Be real. you propose killing them which one do you think they prefer.
any way i do not care. if they don't like it then they can change their govt.
in my opinion just like in china as iran becomes more involved with the rest of the world the more open their society will become. as it did before.

 

Very true...

Sooo which is it?

lol

 

Sorry for not being clear.

What I meant to say is that the Iranians have become a product of their regime. Slaves to an apocalyptical political and military establishment. The people have failed to take a stand against their governments will to continue isolating the Iranian citizens from the world.

Seriously, these people cannot travel freely. Iranians are not allowed travel visa's to 98% of the world.

The fact is, the Iranian people know that the UN (which represents all countries worldwide) have issued strong referendums condemning their nuclear plans and demanding cooperation. The Iranians have received sanction after sanction.

The Iranian people have taken zero steps to show their dis approval of their governing body's actions. Therefore, it is assumed that they either passively support or simply don't care.

I do feel bad for the poor Iranian farmers who's only really interest is paying his bills, living with the tough restrictions of the regime, and taking care of his family. Fact is, the simple people always get hit first.

Politicians never seem to get assassinated. One bullet in Saddam's head could have saved American trillions of dollars in this Iraq fiasco.

But let's face it - There most likely will be an attack. Iranian's simple people will get hurt.

But when I said "The World is a Better Place Without Iran - Im specifically referring to removing the current Iyatollah Humeni Regime and its pawns from power - which will obviously lead to success in Iraq - because all of the terror money for guns and supplies in Iraq comes directly from Iran.

Iranian's current regime government leaders will most likely not survive the attack - specifically because their own people will start an uprise and rebel. Remember, their cities will be shattered to the stone age. No medical supplies will come from helping neighbors because Iran has no "allies". They are totally alienated from society and everybody in the area hates them.

So you bet your ass the people will immediately be looking for the alternative government solution that guarantee's the people's welfare and prosperity.

I mean how long can you live without simple things like toilet paper. Seriously, no electricity, no water, and lots of rubble.

Knocking out electricity and communications is the first priority of any army. Trust me, it get's real lonely in the dark. You can be sure that people get to thinking real fast what is good for them.

 

Does anyone else find it odd how we are so concerned with telling Iran they can't have nukes while Israel with their countless UN resolutions sits on over 200 nuclear missiles. On two occasions, during the wars of 1967 and 1973, IDF chiefs ordered the preparation of their nuclear missiles against enemy forces.

IMHO nobody in the Middle East needs Nukes, America doesn't need to get pullled into a nuclear war over the boiling pot that is the middle east. People have been dying over there en masse since the crusades, and they will continue to do so. The only difference is they're fighting with advanced weapons which can blow up the world a thousand times over, not swords and shields (unfortunately).

Make no mistake about it, Israel is just as dangerous as Iran is. The only thing that holds back their aggression is their ties with the US.

Ask Gaza?

Thank you for proving my point

 

@ Webwork - This isnt a thread about nuclear proliferation. Pakistan has nukes and I sleep well at night. Im not worried that even though Musharef is reportedly resigning his office - somebody will push a nuke. Im not worried about their Indian neighbors pushing on nukes either.

Im worried about a country who refuses to accept the world's decree prohibiting Iranians from developing nuclear arsenal.

Everybody understands the problem. The question is do we allow Iran to extort us with a Nuke? Alternatively, do we attack first?

Is the world willing to accept Iran with Nuclear Weapons that can reach any target in Europe? Iran already has ballistic missles capable of reaching any European mark within 5 meters. That is a known fact. Add nuclear capability and ask yourself if that is something we're willing to live with?

The world has accepted Israel with nukes. The world has accepted many other countries with nukes. The world REFUSES to accept Iran with Nukes.

Btw - I doubt that Gazan's would be in such rubble if they didn't have a world acclaimed terrorist organization governing the people. The HAMAS, and the people who democratically elected that terrorist group - all deserve what they get. Since 9/11, the world is very un-forgiving regarding terrorism. No more are people thrilled with the words "freedom fighter".

Just goes to show that if you don't join the world community, you get shut out. Peace was not "ruined" by Israel. The HAMAS fanatical group that does not recognize Israel's right to exist overthru Arafat's political party and ruined any chance for peace. That is a reality the Palestinian people created by voting in HAMAS.

 

what you fail to understand is that your fear gives you no right to attack other people. all countries have enemies and fear. there is nothing special here. it is obvious that the even bush administration is not supporting your warmongering any more.
as far as the UN is concerned wht don't you push your govt o follow the rules before asking other people

why don't you provide info in regard to your cluster bombs. why do you want to kill the civilians.

 

Iran has signed the NPT.

Israel hasn't signed the NPT. Neither have India or Pakistan.


Your view on this is very biased and very ill-informed.

 

Nuclear Proliferation is not worth the paper its written on. That just highlights a countries commitment to safe keeping of the knowledge and hardware.

Israel doesnt share nuclear know-how so no paper needs to be signed. Look at the bigger picture. Its not a question of Israel being right or wrong. I wish we did live in a world that nuclear weapons we're nothing but comic book fantasy.

But the fact is that Israel has discouraged every Arab country from attacking it. No, we've never threatened nukes on anybody. But our military machine has convinced every Arab country that we cannot be taken by force. Therefore, nobody comes invading Israel trying to change our government.

Take a look at Georgia. Russia showed up and within 24 hours totally took over the entire country and reports have suggested ethnic cleansing. That can't happen in Israel.

There are 2 options for any country like Georgia that doesnt have firepower. 1 option is to joining other nations that do have firepower (hence, Georgia wants to join NATO) or get the world to agree to your military plans.

Pakistan doesnt have the world threatening them, nor do they threaten the world. Neither does India. Those respective governments have official policies demonstrating their commitment to cooperating with the world on key issues.

They both belong to the world community. Both countries have serious internal terrorism problems, yet both countries understand that if they dont fight terrorism, they will lose their world recognized international status.

IRAN IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It's regime and their fanatical apocalyptic Islamic holy war is a threat to the rest of the world.

The daily life of any Iranian man or women is defined by the regime. God forbid a woman display her hair in public or if her black garmet doesn't hide her female curves - she faces getting the shit beat of of her in public. Again, this isnt some tribe in Iran or religious sect, this is the regimes official law.

Sure, Pakistan and India have their internal problems, and yes - there are crazy religious sects in those respective countries that oppress their members, but the official government does not have a policy of beating the shit out of women or killing in the name of religion.

Iran has been officially held responsible by governments in South America, Europe, and America for promoting terrorism. Assets of Iranian oil have been seized by the families of terror victims. This is an official government that promotes terrorist groups like the Hizbollah.

Might I remind every American that in 1982, the Hizbollah (solely financed by Iran) killed over 241 United States Service Men. It happened in Lebanon yet was financed by Iran. America (Under Reagan) retreated from Lebanon because of this, but make no mistake, America has not forgotten. The Iranian's holding hostage American service men and the "Iranian contra" that followed is still very well remembered in the minds of those who hold key positions in the USA GOV. Many of you are simply to young to remember the reasons why Iran has been shut out and/or is alienated.

Almost all countries in the world have some type of diplomatic mission in America. Even the UN is stationed in America. Anybody who pisses off America immediately realizes how fast the rest of the world stops talking to them. America has lost its way on international relations, and yes, they've lost integrity. But Iran pissed off Europe to. So they really have no friends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

Pakistan is not Iran, nor anywhere near their category. Neither is India. In short, Iran is a very dangerous regime. WAKE UP!

 

ok here is another article to support of my position and the haaretz article.it is titled The best strategy for curbing Tehran's nuclear ambitions
believe you me. it is finished. very soon you will hear the news of a pipeline in iran.

 

Israel would probably win to an extent, but war is something nobody wants, so I don't see this happening unless Iran were to strike Israel or attempt to lure them in.

 

1) Secretary of Defense doesn't make decisions, he executes decisions. There is a big difference. There is a small quartet of Bush advisors. Cheney is probably the only Vice President in history with so much power. Generally a US Vice-President is not really a powerful position.

Bush doesnt read the Washington post or Army Journals to read his advisers thoughts. Bush gets his advice very quietly from his in-house team. If the president wants to release the "advice", he publishes it in the name of himself as official policy and takes credit for his staff's suggestions/solutions.

The only people that print their "presidential advice" in the newspaper are generally the people who can't push their thoughts on the president. Those who use the press to lobby and appeal to American law makers are damn well not the ones who Bush listens to.

The Secretary of Defense opinion is that an American or Israeli attack is not "something the Americans need". America wont stop Israel from attacking nor would America attack Israel for using Iraqi air space.

2) It's commonly known that Israeli pilots train with Americans in Iraq. Remember, Israel has been the logistical power house for the United States. It's reported that the Mossad was the first to report 9/11 several months prior to the buildings falling. America gets a lot of its intelligence from Israel - not the other way around.

The biggest problem in America is that there is a huge shortage in manpower of people who speak Persian are Iranians. No other people on earth speak Persian. There are over 450k Persian Jews (ex-Iranian) that all speak perfect Persian in Israel.

The question of "time" before Iran is operative is really 100% NON-RELEVANT. The only issue that is relevant is IRANS DESIRE TO ACHIEVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Not how long it will take them to develop it.

The current political regime is dangerous to the world. They have the technology to send a rocket into outer space (as they clearly displayed just this week) so you can bet your ass that if they had a nuke, they could pound any city on earth.

 

Proof? It may well be true in your imaginary dream world, that you want to bomb brown people, but no evidence suggests they desire to build WMD's.

 

so you want Bush not to belive our secretary of defense and our own inteligence agencies and our admirals and listen to your corrupt govt. i do not trust israel when it comes to iran.

 

Everybody knows how much I dislike the Ha Aretz newspaper (read above), but here's something nice to read on proof.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/914397.html

 

So do you have proof or not?