Iran Or Isreal? Who Will Be The Victory?

@ Pizzaman - If you have a solution that will solve demographical problems, then your a genius. Fact is, Israel is a Jewish State. If Israel allows to many Arabs as citizens, we will become a minority in the government. Afterall, each citizen in our democratic country has the right to vote. Therefore, a majority of arab votes equals the destruction of Israel.

There is no "right to return" for Palestinians. There simply can't be. For all those people who say "Thats no fair" well, here's the flip side of the coin.

The Jews we're on the land (recorded by the bible and archeological fact) long before Mohammed and Islam showed up. So Jews have exercised our "Right to Return". Palestine is relatively a new name for the land. Remember, long before it was called "Palestine" it was called Israel. So using history books doesnt help the Palestinian cause. Their religious call doesnt mean shit either cause my bible (which exists 2000 years before the Koran showed up) and the bible says the land is for the Jews.

If History and Religion haven't convinced you, then at least use WAR. I mean Israel won the land in war. Nobody gave anything to Israel. In most cases, you fight a war and if you lose, you lose land. Jordan lost Jerusalem in 1967 and yet never asked Israel to return it. Instead, you have the Palestinians claiming that Jerusalem belongs to them.

I mean even when the land was called Palestine, Jerusalem belonged to Jordan. Never in history did it belong to Palestine. So anybody who wants to debate this really needs to look at the maps and review the status of the people who lived on the land before determining who has rights to what.

 

REALLY

So then, what about the Jews that object to the state?

Does that make them any less Jewish than anyone living in Israel? NO. Zionists love to claim Israel represents Jews so when anybody critisizes it they get a ticket to call them anti-semetic, truth is, many Jews hate your vile racist state and they do not want such a thing representing them.

It is impossible for a state to be a "Jewish" state, it is like having a "Black" state or "White" state assuming when you say Jewish you mean ethnically.

 

you wonder and wonder, about Mohammad, and Islam, and show your hatred for them, thats ok we know you and your people are full of hate to almost all other races and religions, and beliefs, but still, that does not give Israel any right to exist, in the contrary.. I usually do not care about your walls of text, this is known for those who debate, as a try from the debater, to change the issue, and overwhelm the other with so many unrelated things, then add thing like "I dare ..." somewhere in the wall, thanks for lemon, he quoted this "I dare" because I usually do not read your walls because they simply do not worth a reply, or even to waste time reading them, for very obvious reasons (might not be obvious for you, lemon and people like you) so Lemon made me look quickly on 1 or 2 of them, and, despite I did not find where you hided this "I dare", I will take the challenge only because you asked for it, well not me personally, your challenge been taken LONG ago, a Muslim, have said differently here, read the following wall of text since you so much love these walls of text, then I dare any Zionists to say differently, later we will get to religious beliefs, and holy books and scriptures, starting with some famous quotes from Talmud:

So many billions of words have been written about Palestine—perhaps more than on any other subject in history—that I hesitate to add to them. Yet I am compelled to do so, for I am reluctantly convinced that the world in general, and America in particular, knows almost nothing of the true case for the Arabs.

We Arabs follow, perhaps far more than you think, the press of America. We are frankly disturbed to find that for every word printed on the Arab side, a thousand are printed on the Zionist side.

There are many reasons for this. You have many millions of Jewish citizens interested in this question. They are highly vocal and wise in the ways of publicity. There are few Arab citizens in America, and we are as yet unskilled in the technique of modern propaganda.

The results have been alarming for us. In your press we see a horrible caricature and are told it is our true portrait. In all justice, we cannot let this pass by default.

Our case is quite simple: For nearly 2,000 years Palestine has been almost 100 per cent Arab. It is still preponderantly Arab today, in spite of enormous Jewish immigration. But if this immigration continues we shall soon be outnumbered—a minority in our home.

Palestine is a small and very poor country, about the size of your state of Vermont. Its Arab population is only about 1,200,000. Already we have had forced on us, against our will, some 600,000 Zionist Jews. We are threatened with many hundreds of thousands more.

Our position is so simple and natural that we are amazed it should even be questioned. It is exactly the same position you in America take in regard to the unhappy European Jews. You are sorry for them, but you do not want them in your country.

We do not want them in ours, either. Not because they are Jews, but because they are foreigners. We would not want hundreds of thousands of foreigners in our country, be they Englishmen or Norwegians or Brazilians or whatever.

Think for a moment: In the last 25 years we have had one third of our entire population forced upon us. In America that would be the equivalent of 45,000,000 complete strangers admitted to your country, over your violent protest, since 1921. How would you have reacted to that?

Because of our perfectly natural dislike of being overwhelmed in our own homeland, we are called blind nationalists and heartless anti-Semites. This charge would be ludicrous were it not so dangerous.

No people on earth have been less "anti-Semitic" than the Arabs. The persecution of the Jews has been confined almost entirely to the Christian nations of the West. Jews, themselves, will admit that never since the Great Dispersion did Jews develop so freely and reach such importance as in Spain when it was an Arab possession. With very minor exceptions, Jews have lived for many centuries in the Middle East, in complete peace and friendliness with their Arab neighbours.

Damascus, Baghdad, Beirut and other Arab centres have always contained large and prosperous Jewish colonies. Until the Zionist invasion of Palestine began, these Jews received the most generous treatment—far, far better than in Christian Europe. Now, unhappily, for the first time in history, these Jews are beginning to feel the effects of Arab resistance to the Zionist assault. Most of them are as anxious as Arabs to stop it. Most of these Jews who have found happy homes among us resent, as we do, the coming of these strangers.

I was puzzled for a long time about the odd belief which apparently persists in America that Palestine has somehow "always been a Jewish land." Recently an American I talked to cleared up this mystery. He pointed out that the only things most Americans know about Palestine are what they read in the Bible. It was a Jewish land in those days, they reason, and they assume it has always remained so.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. It is absurd to reach so far back into the mists of history to argue about who should have Palestine today, and I apologise for it. Yet the Jews do this, and I must reply to their "historic claim." I wonder if the world has ever seen a stranger sight than a group of people seriously pretending to claim a land because their ancestors lived there some 2,000 years ago!

If you suggest that I am biased, I invite you to read any sound history of the period and verify the facts.

Such fragmentary records as we have indicate that the Jews were wandering nomads from Iraq who moved to southern Turkey, came south to Palestine, stayed there a short time, and then passed to Egypt, where they remained about 400 years. About 1300 BC (according to your calendar) they left Egypt and gradually conquered most—but not all—of the inhabitants of Palestine.

It is significant that the Philistines—not the Jews—gave their name to the country: "Palestine" is merely the Greek form of "Philistia."

Only once, during the empire of David and Solomon, did the Jews ever control nearly—but not all—the land which is today Palestine. This empire lasted only 70 years, ending in 926 BC. Only 250 years later the Kingdom of Judah had shrunk to a small province around Jerusalem, barely a quarter of modern Palestine.

In 63 BC the Jews were conquered by Roman Pompey, and never again had even the vestige of independence. The Roman Emperor Hadrian finally wiped them out about 135 AD. He utterly destroyed Jerusalem, rebuilt under another name, and for hundreds of years no Jew was permitted to enter it. A handful of Jews remained in Palestine but the vast majority were killed or scattered to other countries, in the Diaspora, or the Great Dispersion. From that time Palestine ceased to be a Jewish country, in any conceivable sense.

This was 1,815 years ago, and yet the Jews solemnly pretend they still own Palestine! If such fantasy were allowed, how the map of the world would dance about!

Italians might claim England, which the Romans held so long. England might claim France, "homeland" of the conquering Normans. And the French Normans might claim Norway, where their ancestors originated. And incidentally, we Arabs might claim Spain, which we held for 700 years.

Many Mexicans might claim Spain, "homeland" of their forefathers. They might even claim Texas, which was Mexican until 100 years ago. And suppose the American Indians claimed the "homeland" of which they were the sole, native, and ancient occupants until only some 450 years ago!

I am not being facetious. All these claims are just as valid—or just as fantastic—as the Jewish "historic connection" with Palestine. Most are more valid.

In any event, the great Moslem expansion about 650 AD finally settled things. It dominated Palestine completely. From that day on, Palestine was solidly Arabic in population, language, and religion. When British armies entered the country during the last war, they found 500,000 Arabs and only 65,000 Jews.

If solid, uninterrupted Arab occupation for nearly 1,300 years does not make a country "Arab", what does?

The Jews say, and rightly, that Palestine is the home of their religion. It is likewise the birthplace of Christianity, but would any Christian nation claim it on that account? In passing, let me say that the Christian Arabs—and there are many hundreds of thousands of them in the Arab World—are in absolute agreement with all other Arabs in opposing the Zionist invasion of Palestine.

May I also point out that Jerusalem is, after Mecca and Medina, the holiest place in Islam. In fact, in the early days of our religion, Moslems prayed toward Jerusalem instead of Mecca.

The Jewish "religious claim" to Palestine is as absurd as the "historic claim." The Holy Places, sacred to three great religions, must be open to all, the monopoly of none. Let us not confuse religion and politics.

We are told that we are inhumane and heartless because do not accept with open arms the perhaps 200,000 Jews in Europe who suffered so frightfully under Nazi cruelty, and who even now—almost three years after war’s end—still languish in cold, depressing camps.

Let me underline several facts. The unimaginable persecution of the Jews was not done by the Arabs: it was done by a Christian nation in the West. The war which ruined Europe and made it almost impossible for these Jews to rehabilitate themselves was fought by the Christian nations of the West. The rich and empty portions of the earth belong, not to the Arabs, but to the Christian nations of the West.

And yet, to ease their consciences, these Christian nations of the West are asking Palestine—a poor and tiny Moslem country of the East—to accept the entire burden. "We have hurt these people terribly," cries the West to the East. "Won’t you please take care of them for us?"

We find neither logic nor justice in this. Are we therefore "cruel and heartless nationalists"?

We are a generous people: we are proud that "Arab hospitality" is a phrase famous throughout the world. We are a humane people: no one was shocked more than we by the Hitlerite terror. No one pities the present plight of the desperate European Jews more than we.

But we say that Palestine has already sheltered 600,000 refugees. We believe that is enough to expect of us—even too much. We believe it is now the turn of the rest of the world to accept some of them.

I will be entirely frank with you. There is one thing the Arab world simply cannot understand. Of all the nations of the earth, America is most insistent that something be done for these suffering Jews of Europe. This feeling does credit to the humanity for which America is famous, and to that glorious inscription on your Statue of Liberty.

And yet this same America—the richest, greatest, most powerful nation the world has ever known—refuses to accept more than a token handful of these same Jews herself!

I hope you will not think I am being bitter about this. I have tried hard to understand that mysterious paradox, and I confess I cannot. Nor can any other Arab.

Perhaps you have been informed that "the Jews in Europe want to go to no other place except Palestine."

This myth is one of the greatest propaganda triumphs of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, the organisation which promotes with fanatic zeal the emigration to Palestine. It is a subtle half-truth, thus doubly dangerous.

The astounding truth is that nobody on earth really knows where these unfortunate Jews really want to go!

You would think that in so grave a problem, the American, British, and other authorities responsible for the European Jews would have made a very careful survey, probably by vote, to find out where each Jew actually wants to go. Amazingly enough this has never been done! The Jewish Agency has prevented it.

Some time ago the American Military Governor in Germany was asked at a press conference how he was so certain that all Jews there wanted to go to Palestine. His answer was simple: "My Jewish advisors tell me so." He admitted no poll had ever been made. Preparations were indeed begun for one, but the Jewish Agency stepped in to stop it.

The truth is that the Jews in German camps are now subjected to a Zionist pressure campaign which learned much from the Nazi terror. It is dangerous for a Jew to say that he would rather go to some other country, not Palestine. Such dissenters have been severely beaten, and worse.

Not long ago, in Palestine, nearly 1,000 Austrian Jews informed the international refugee organisation that they would like to go back to Austria, and plans were made to repatriate them.

The Jewish Agency heard of this, and exerted enough political pressure to stop it. It would be bad propaganda for Zionism if Jews began leaving Palestine. The nearly 1,000 Austrian are still there, against their will.

The fact is that most of the European Jews are Western in culture and outlook, entirely urban in experience and habits. They cannot really have their hearts set on becoming pioneers in the barren, arid, cramped land which is Palestine.

One thing, however, is undoubtedly true. As matters stand now, most refugee Jews in Europe would, indeed, vote for Palestine, simply because they know no other country will have them.

If you or I were given a choice between a near-prison camp for the rest of our lives—or Palestine—we would both choose Palestine, too.

But open up any other alternative to them—give them any other choice, and see what happens!

No poll, however, will be worth anything unless the nations of the earth are willing to open their doors—just a little—to the Jews. In other words, if in such a poll a Jew says he wants to go to Sweden, Sweden must be willing to accept him. If he votes for America, you must let him come in.

Any other kind of poll would be a farce. For the desperate Jew, this is no idle testing of opinion: this is a grave matter of life or death. Unless he is absolutely sure that his vote means something, he will always vote for Palestine, so as not to risk his bird in the hand for one in the bush.

In any event, Palestine can accept no more. The 65,000 Jews in Palestine in 1918 have jumped to 600,000 today. We Arabs have increased, too, but not by immigration. The Jews were then a mere 11 per cent of our population. Today they are one third of it.

The rate of increase has been terrifying. In a few more years—unless stopped now—it will overwhelm us, and we shall be an important minority in our own home.

Surely the rest of the wide world is rich enough and generous enough to find a place for 200,000 Jews—about one third the number that tiny, poor Palestine has already sheltered. For the rest of the world, it is hardly a drop in the bucket. For us it means national suicide.

We are sometimes told that since the Jews came to Palestine, the Arab standard of living has improved. This is a most complicated question. But let us even assume, for the argument, that it is true. We would rather be a bit poorer, and masters of our own home. Is this unnatural?

The sorry story of the so-called "Balfour Declaration," which started Zionist immigration into Palestine, is too complicated to repeat here in detail. It is grounded in broken promises to the Arabs—promises made in cold print which admit no denying.

We utterly deny its validity. We utterly deny the right of Great Britain to give away Arab land for a "national home" for an entirely foreign people.

Even the League of Nations sanction does not alter this. At the time, not a single Arab state was a member of the League. We were not allowed to say a word in our own defense.

I must point out, again in friendly frankness, that America was nearly as responsible as Britain for this Balfour Declaration. President Wilson approved it before it was issued, and the American Congress adopted it word for word in a joint resolution on 30th June, 1922.

In the 1920s, Arabs were annoyed and insulted by Zionist immigration, but not alarmed by it. It was steady, but fairly small, as even the Zionist founders thought it would remain. Indeed for some years, more Jews left Palestine than entered it—in 1927 almost twice as many.

But two new factors, entirely unforeseen by Britain or the League or America or the most fervent Zionist, arose in the early thirties to raise the immigration to undreamed heights. One was the World Depression; the second the rise of Hitler.

In 1932, the year before Hitler came to power, only 9,500 Jews came to Palestine. We did not welcome them, but we were not afraid that, at that rate, our solid Arab majority would ever be in danger.

But the next year—the year of Hitler—it jumped to 30,000! In 1934 it was 42,000! In 1935 it reached 61,000!

It was no longer the orderly arrival of idealist Zionists. Rather, all Europe was pouring its frightened Jews upon us. Then, at last, we, too, became frightened. We knew that unless this enormous influx stopped, we were, as Arabs, doomed in our Palestine homeland. And we have not changed our minds.

I have the impression that many Americans believe the trouble in Palestine is very remote from them, that America had little to do with it, and that your only interest now is that of a humane bystander.

I believe that you do not realise how directly you are, as a nation, responsible in general for the whole Zionist move and specifically for the present terrorism. I call this to your attention because I am certain that if you realise your responsibility you will act fairly to admit it and assume it.

Quite aside from official American support for the "National Home" of the Balfour Declaration, the Zionist settlements in Palestine would have been almost impossible, on anything like the current scale, without American money. This was contributed by American Jewry in an idealistic effort to help their fellows.

The motive was worthy: the result were disastrous. The contributions were by private individuals, but they were almost entirely Americans, and, as a nation, only America can answer for it.

The present catastrophe may be laid almost entirely at your door. Your government, almost alone in the world, is insisting on the immediate admission of 100,000 more Jews into Palestine—to be followed by countless additional ones. This will have the most frightful consequences in bloody chaos beyond anything ever hinted at in Palestine before.

It is your press and political leadership, almost alone in the world, who press this demand. It is almost entirely American money which hires or buys the "refugee ships" that steam illegally toward Palestine: American money which pays their crews. The illegal immigration from Europe is arranged by the Jewish Agency, supported almost entirely by American funds. It is American dollars which support the terrorists, which buy the bullets and pistols that kill British soldiers—your allies—and Arab citizens—your friends.

I point out these things because nothing less than complete frankness will be of use. The crisis is too stark for mere polite vagueness which means nothing.

What would your answer be if some outside agency told you that you must accept in America many millions of utter strangers in your midst—enough to dominate your country—merely because they insisted on going to America, and because their forefathers had once lived there some 2,000 years ago?

source http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html

 

you do understand that the law of return is not made for palestanians. it is made for every one. so the victor of a conflict can not remove the civilian population of the losing side. so there is nothing special in this situation. if you want to have peace then you must consider other side also. the problems must be resolved and both side must be happy so it would succeed
as far as historical stuff there is two points.
1-it was not palestanians that moved you out of the land your claim is really with whomever did it.
2-we can not punish and kill people because what their ancestors did. that is insane.
i would also like to point out considering the history and all the harm that jewish people have suffered based on their religion being used as an excuse. you and people like you that try to use religion as a base and justification for what they do amaze me to no end.
the solution is peace and creation of a palestanian country that is democratic and successful.
this particular issue can be solved by creating an international fund. the fund will make housing apartment complexes [cities, one around Bethlehem to support tourism for example] in the west bank and gaza and will trade these housing units with deeds that are for property inside israel and will return these deeds at a certain time to israel.
this is a problem of housing and can easily be solved.
since the palestanians themselves will be employed in making these housing complexes, there would be an economic jump start also. and should start immediately. This process is the first part of my peace plans implementation right after cease fire and the agreement ceremonies
in both side we have a lack of opennesses and creative thinking. you have both became professional at finding things to disagree on rather than problem solving.
i am genius

 

What kind of person am I?

 

Realistically how would he know? The best he can do is offer his perceptions based on your "message board persona." If you're like most people, that would be a very superficial analysis that wasn't right.

That's how we know he's full of shit and his opinion stinks.

 

i have a great idea about Jerusalem also. not a solution but a move that would untangle the very complex situation. and the settlements.
it is very important how imad and lemon think of each other. it is also not important if they hate each other. the main question is do they wanting to live in peace with each other.
it is very natural and normal that two side of a war to hate each other. yet there have been peace made between people that hate each other. what is really ironic is that none can do anything about the other. both are there to stay. so then what is the question that they need to answer both to each other and themselves.
do they want to live in peace or at war? if they choose peace the hate will go away in a few generations and if they choose war they get to kill each other till they change their minds.
nothing changes nothing changes.

 

@ Pizzaman
@ Imad
@ Thraxed

Please answer the following:

1) How can we as a society look favorably on a religion started by a guy who married a 6 year old? You muslims all agree that Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 years old. Having sex with a 6 year old is called child molestation.

Does it matter that he had sex in the dry desert 1000 years ago with a 6 year old? Seriously, is Mohammed the correct person to teach me morals?

The same Mohammed who saw his daughter in law naked, and according to the Muslim Koran got a boner and ejaculated? He forced his adopted son to divorce the girl so that he could marry her. She was 11 years old.

Dude, Im sorry, I dont believe in fables. Moreo ever, I damn well don't believe that any child molester who rapes a 6 year old can or should be mistaken as the messenger of God.

Please answer that issue. How can a logical person believe anything that a 50 year old man says after he marries and rapes a 6 year old child? Seriously, before we talk about all of his "holy wars" and who the land belongs to, lets discuss the child rape charges?

If a 50 year old man married your 6 year old daughter, how the hell would you feel?

Does common sense go down the drain when discussing religion? Or is Mohammed special?

Now lets talk Peace...

Peace for the Palestinians will only be possible when the Palestinians unite. Currently, there is nobody to make peace with. Peace is based off of written documents defining the peace. Who is the reigning government of Palestine? The HAMAS or the PLA?

Seriously people, you bitch and scream for peace and land and yet you have zero unity. The sick thing is that the Palestinians have never had any unity. Until you fix yourselves, you cant ask for shit from Israel or the world. Its really that simple.

Don't bother asking for land in the name of Mohammed. It pisses the Christian and Jewish world off. You Muslims came 600 years after Christ. Before it was "Palestine" the land was called Israel and it belonged to the Jews.

The Arabs never we're united until Mohammed came around. You didnt have a religion or anything that united you. Basically there we're tribes, sorta like American Indian tribes. Syrian arabs we're different than Egyptian arabs in culture, language, etc. They had ZERO that united them.

Just because some fucking child Molester named Mohammed united you arabs, and sent you all off on "JIHAD" which is a "Holy war" doesnt mean that even if you gained land that the land was really yours to begin with.

Let's say that since you Arab's won wars and won land, then why is it that when Israel takes the land back it's all of a sudden not okay? Seriously, you don't have any legit claim. So you go back and say Mohammed Says...

Well, Mohammed was a child molester and I don't give a shit what he says. Neither does most of the world.

So if Palestinians want a home land of their own, they need to simply unite under one responsible non-terrorist government that Israel can negotiate with. Mohammed isnt going to help them. Fighting isnt going to help them. Israel doesnt give a shit what other people worship, and Judaism does not request anybody to become Jewish. All we care about is raising our families without worrying about terrorism. It's really that simple. Palestinians to their "home land" and Jews for Israel.

Fact is, the "Demographical" problem of combining societies doesnt work in the middle east as it does in America. Israel is not a "melting pot" of different breeds. We are one pure breed of Jews.

I mean the average American is half Mexican, Half Polish, Half Italian, etc., etc. Most people dont know their backround ancestors from 300 years ago. 80% of the Jewish people in Israel can tell you who there family was by name and where they lived 1000 years ago. Ask the average Italian American to tell you where his family was living 500 years ago and their names.

Remember, just 100 years ago, 80% of the world did not know how to read and write. The Jews have always known reading/writing skills because the bible required it. Most Arab's til this day don't know how to read or write which means that they live on stories (as opposed to written events). I mean imagine how smart you would be if you went throughout your entire life not knowing how to read or write.

The Jewish custom is that all new born babies are written in prayer books, and families keep the books from generation to generation. Most books are copied and duplicated to ensure their survival. Books are often duplicated and hidden for the purpose of survival. This ensures that even if Massacre comes, we never die.

Go Google up the Dead Sea Scrolls.

That is how I know who my family was from both sides.

You see, most of you people are on this earth today. In 300 years, your children wont even know who you are. Think about that before you curse us Jews.

I was watching an intellectual program recently about the Arabs. No Arab can honestly show a written recorded family record from beyond 700 years ago. Simply doesnt exist.

So before the Arab's claim history as a tool to claim land, they should refer to written documents. I do agree that there needs to be a seperate state solution for the Palestinians, so don't get me wrong.

I just think that the Palestinians need to stop using history and religion as an excuse. They need to unite.

 

too lengthy post again, sorry for not reading it all, but I noticed that you started again with showing your hatred, the sex life of the prophet Mohammed, and your views about it, does not make Israel a legal state, if his sex life interests you that much, you can refer to the so many threads on this forum, that talked about his marriage to Aisha, in which me and many others posted, so, I do not see how Mohammed marriage to Aisha makes Isarel legal, in case you missed the few last posts topic,

as for a source to teach you morals, its up to you, nobody can tell you, you can have whatever source to teach you morals, depends on what you consider as morals, and your understanding for the word, since you said "we Jews" I understand that Judaism is the source of your morals, I m curious, do you consider these.. morals? or they been taken out of context? or misinterpreted?



Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.

Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.

God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, unto the third and fourth generations. Punishing a child for the sins of their ancestors is not very just. Exodus 20:5&34:7

Leviticus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents and death for adultery. Gee, with these types of laws the population should be almost nil by now.

source & more: Evils of the Torah

 

Well, first lets get something straight. Your using a translation of the Hebrew bible. The English and Hebrew bible are not the same.

Hebrew is not just a phonetic language, the alpha-bet letters also have numeric and other values that are not passed down in English. Personally, I dont read the English bible cause it doesnt make sense.

Let me add another small point. It's a curse on earth that any non-jew read the bible. So your reading the wrong book. We Jews are not missionaric. You will never find a Jew asking you to be Jewish.

According to the Jewish bible, the Jews are God's chosen people and the book is not just a historical book, but also a book that describes in great detail the DNA of all creation for all generations. According to specific scripture in the book of Exodus, the bible is ONLY for the Jews. It's a curse that the bible fell into the hands of Gentiles as it was never meant to get there. It clearly says in the bible that the book is for the Jews.

Jesus felt that was wrong. But since God said that he wanted the book given to the Jews on Mt. Sanai. In the new testement the torah sages wanted to know Jesus's position.

Jesus agree's that God said that the bible was given only to the Jews, only he claims that God was incorrect and that the bible should be for everybody.

We jews dont expect Gentiles to respect the 10 commandments. Actually, there are 613 commandments, but since you dont have the Hebrew version, your stuck with the translation that doesnt even make sense. Seriously, we have no expectations from Gentiles.

So now let me address your scriptures in one simple sentence...

Since your quoting the bible, we'll use it as a basis. The bible claims that God created the world. Stop there...

Who the fuck are you to decide what is morals as opposed to non-morals. Did you create the sun, moon, stars, galaxies, and put them in such a perfect mathematical form that we have 365 days a year...?

I mean seriously, this world is to perfect in its mathematical form. If the sun was just a little closer to the earth, we'd all burn to hell. If the sun was just a little further, we'd all freeze. Btw - if the sun lost its course, we wouldnt have 365 days a year.

Now that we've established that God created the earth, we must agree that its beyond us to decide for him what is right or wrong. Since he created it, he can do whatever he wants with the world including decide to pass on the sins of one man for several generations.

You see all disease in this world is either a derivative of 1 of 2 things. 1 is called ENVIRONMENT and the other is called GENETICS. So if your sick, its either because of your parents or the place you live.

Judiasm teaches us that our negative actions cause a spiritual deficiency that unless corrected will be passed on to several generations. Fact is, my children receive their life via my sperm. If I have a deficiency in my own mental/physical/spiritual state when ejaculating sperm, then chances are that my kids will inherit that.

What is so fucking hard to understand from that?

But lets face it. Science today has proven what Jews have said for thousands of years. Sins in Judiasm are categorized according to physical organs. Certain sins cause certain deficiancies to specific organs. It's a science that is only studied by Jews, and so I wont waste your time entertaining you with more specific scientific facts.

 

instead of all that you wrote which is meaningless and irrelevant, why don't you answer to my proposal on the issue of the right of the return.

 

just a note, lol, no offence here, but even if you call for Judaism, I will never want to follow this religion, and I think very few in this world would want to follow it, simply because it has been lost during history, and what been left from it, is just remains from here and there from what people remembered, I think most of them were ill 90+ years old that find it hard to remember such things, so imagine what we would have?

oh, no need to imagine, look at yourself.

you, can't tell me what I can do and what I can't do, drop this bad idea in your mind, that makes you think you are chosen and above all the rest, because you are not, and if you been directly speaking to me in this accent, you know what would happen to you, so my advice to you, never speak in this accent to anybody, then go cry people are anti-semitic, specially if that somebody was an Arab, cos they are the last in this world who would take any bs from you, and you know this very well.

the reasons if you ask why just very few people wants to join such belief as yours, is the belief itself, you can see that despite all the tries, many parties in this world do to make Islam look bad, Islam still is the fastest growing religion in the world, and also despite they try to make this appear as not too important and more to save their embarrassment of not being able to explain why Islam is so fast growing, its very simply, because, its the truth, because it makes sense, and more and more people, become brave enough, each day, to say I want to follow the truth, and more and more people, have courage, to challenge all the obstacles other put in their way, and go for the truth, and of course, despite how this might look ugly for some,


also, please do not feel bad if not so many are interested in your morals sources, and do not think by hiding Talmud from other non-Jew, and say it was not meant for them to read, that they won't be able to find and read its the source of your hate above, for Muslims and all non-Jew

for any non-Jew who is interested, find some of Talmud gems here:

www.talmudunmasked.com

 

I have no problem with imad and I see no other solution except for peace talks.

 

@ Lemon - Talking peace can only be accomplished if the Palestinians are united. Currently, the citizens of Gaza are not under seize from Israel, rather are under seize from the Hamas. The Hamas does not allow the democratically elected PLA government to execute its powers. Hamas does NOT recognize Israel's right to exist.

Now, that being said, there is nobody to negotiate and make peace with.

@ Imad - As I clearly said in my posts, Judaism is NON MISSIONARIC. You cannot become Jewish. As a gentile, no Jewish person is allowed to even teach you about Judaism. Your not born into our religion, therefore you cannot become a jew.

Every other religion accepts anybody who will just believe in the religion. Judaism is different. We base our entire religion on birthright. Our land, our god and our fate is based off of birthright.

We dont believe that Judaism is just a "Belief" like most religions, rather we believe its a birth right. According to the bible, Esau sold his birthright to Jacob and Jacob had 12 sons of which he spread out that birthright. If you don't have the genetics, your not Jewish.

No Jew has ever asked you or anybody to become Jewish and/or believe like us, thus we dont commercialize our religion - nor do we let outsiders in. So even if you call up your local Rabbi and say you want to be Jewish, he will simply tell you that he can't help you. It's almost as if you have a type A blood and want to have type B. No doctor can help.

It's a scientifically proven fact that all full breaded Jews (parents from both sides that are jewish) worldwide have the same DNA makeup. We are the only full bread pure people on earth.

Go to Italy and search for 5 different Italians to see if they are "full bread". You will find that they have a little Polish, a little Russian, a little French in them, etc., etc. Judaism is not just a religion, it's a race.

I bet that you cannot trace your family 10 generations back. Most Americans (besides the Indians) are not full bred. Fact is, America is only 232 years old. Before that, the majority of inhabitants of the land (besides the native Indians) we're either British or French. All Jews, irregardless of their geographical location, all share the same unique genes.

War's have driven people from the lands. The Arab's who lived on the land of Israel 500 years ago are not the same arabs who call themselves Palestinians. In fact, most of the arabs we're nomads who lived in different places of the middle east according to the seasons.

Til this moment, I have no fucking idea how you come to the conclusion that Palestinians are entitled to land. Before 1967, Jerusalem belonged to Jordan. Israel fought Jordan and won Jerusalem. NEVER IN HISTORY did Jerusalem belong to Palestine.

The Palestinians dont have a country, but they already claim a capital that never belonged to them in the first place?

Fact is, Gaza belonged to Egypt until the "6 day war" in 1967 which Israel won Gaza. Make no mistake, Gaza never belonged to so-called Palestinians. It belonged to Egypt.

Israel begged Egypt to take back Gaza when we made peace with them. Fact is, the citizens of Gaza are not Egyptian citizens cause Egypt hates the Palestinians.

Jordan doesnt recognize Jerusalem residents as Jordanians. You know why? Cause they hate Palestinians.

Personally, I think most of you don't know the history well enough. You hear the "Palestinian Cause" as if they really do have a cause. None of you can show me anywhere in history when the Palestinians had a self-governing body.

Palestine has always been land that was controlled by foreign armys - and never controlled by the local arabs. Make make no mistake, long before Palestine or Mohammed showed up, the land was called Israel and the Jews owned and controlled it. Before that, according to the books, God had us waiting 40 years in the desert to get the land. At least we have a clear record. It doesnt matter if you believe in the spiritual message of the bible, you must at least accept the bible as a historical record that clearly gives title deed to the Jews.

Then comes Mohammed, raids the land and changes the name, and all of a sudden the Arab's own the land? Obviously if Mohammed had kept the name Israel, then he would not have been able to claim its his land. So he changed the name.

Fact is, the name was Israel long before Palestine and changing the name to Palestine doesnt give you arabs any ownership. It's just a manipulation technique at best to fuck with the minds of future generations confusing the difference between the Jewish ownership and the Arab ownership.

Let me ask you this. Let's say that you own a ranch named "The SharePro Ranch". While you we're on vacation, somebody forged your identity and sold your home. Let say that the ranch was sold 6 times. The 3rd owner changed the name from the SharePro ranch to the DigitalPoint Ranch.

Finally, you come home from vacation. Who owns the home? You or the current owner? What do we call the ranch?

For all legal purposes, you pull out your proof of legal documents to show that you legally owned the ranch. Jews have such proof showing our ownership. You arabs are our guests. If you dont like it, get off the land. But for fuck sakes, stop saying it's your land cause the fact is a thousand years before Mohammed and the Koran showed up the Jews are recorded in the bible to have settled on the land.

So what the fuck makes you think its your land?

 

thank you lemon for your open mind. although i would like to know how you feel about the solution that i presented in regard to right of return.
@sharepro
what did you think of my plan in regard the right of return? can you limit your answer to relevant response to my question?
you know that you are in presence of a genius.
can you stick to the point? lets see if there is a point when a compromise can be reached. i have the answers. give me your biggest obstacle infront of peace and i will show you the solution.
are you sure you are jewish?
what does maze mean?

 

Hi Pizzaman...

Yes, I do believe that the Arab's who have become refugee's should have a "homeland" of their own. I believe that their governing body and distributed land should answer both their political and social needs - ending once and for all the conflict.

Maps have been drawn up and negotiations are under way. However, Jerusalem is not on the table for negotiations. It never belonged to Palestine, rather belonged to Jordan and Israel won it in the 1967 war and when Israel made peace with Jordan, the Jordanians didnt get Jerusalem back.

The new Palestinian nation can only be created once the Palestinians unite under one democratically elected government. This is next to impossible, specifically because the Palestinians are not united. Half of the Palestinians live in Gaza while the other half live in what is known as the "West Bank".

Just 30 years ago, the Westbank was controlled by Jordan and Gaza was controlled by Egyptians. In short, we're not talking about former Israeli's kicked off their land, we're talking about former Egyptian's who control Gaza and former Jordanians that control arab cities like Ramallah. Since both of these "Palestinian factions" have different national mama's and papa's, the political turmoil hasn't allowed for real discussions of peace.

Gaza is controlled and supported by the same people (Egyptian brotherhood) who want to over-throw the Egyptian Government. Egyptians and Jordanians have totally different mentalities, and thus the "Palestinians" who are derived from those countries are worlds apart from each other.

For those of you who speak Arabic, you all know that Egyptian Arabic and Jordanian Arabic is basically 2 different languages. I mean its the same language, but its really the difference between an American speaking English and an British man speaking English.

Today, the Jordanian and Egyptian governments have turned their backs on the Palestinians because of HAMAS and the lack of unity amongst the mob.

In short - No unity = No Peace.

Religion is just an excuse to unite people against a very un-united people. I only mention Judaism because it represents a very united race.

But I really do hope a day comes and the Palestinians unite. A responsible body that can be talked to. I prefer organized crime over disorganized crime. I mean at least you know who's door to knock on. I mean its better to have a Mafia don with soldiers who follow orders as opposed to a mob who doesnt take orders from anybody.

Organized Crime is generally synonymous with government and Disorganized Crime is synonymous with Crime or Chaos.

Remember, using "history" as a tool to discuss land or suicidal bombings need to stop. Every time a bomb goes off and the Palestinian Government claims that they are "helpless" to fight terrorism increases the Israeli desire to invade and enforce control over Palestine. What the hell would you do if a bomb blew up in your neighborhood or killed your mother at Mc Donalds.

But make no mistake, Israeli's don't want to control Palestinians. Most Israeli's prefer to have zero relations with the Palestinians. Hell, we want to build a huge wall and simply lock them out. I hope for a day that we can have usual commerce together and learn to get over the gaps.

But again, it can't happen until they get their shit together and find unity.

 

unfortunately from my reading of Israeli papers making peace with the palestanians is a political liability in israel. i hope that this changes soon. peace is very close and people of both side must make peace a goal of their govt. i agree that the palestanian leadership has problems also but the whole world is putting pressure on hamas. when i say israel should do what she can to make peace i think this a very positive thing for israel. do not do it for them do it for yourself. do you know how many Israelis have been killed as the result of palestanian terrorism in the past 3 years?
you still did not tell me what does maze mean ?
if you like my idea about resolving the right of return. i also have a solution for Jerusalem.
believe me that there is a solution for every one of the outstanding issues between the two that can be acceptable to the majority of both side.[65% or more]
i have the answer

 

Obama will defeat Iran. He is a superior military leader.

 

A McRib would defeat Iran with the military might of the US under it's control.

 

We all know that Iran is no match against America or Israel. But the question is what happens the day after you bomb the hell out of them. Don't mistake me to be a pacifist...

Personally, I think that the Iranians need to be bombed - specifically because they voted in their crazy government and should be made to pay for its irresponsibility. Afterall, all major world powers have voted against Iran in the UN forcing sanctions and other embargo's hoping that the regime would cooperate. It really is time that their people pay.

The question is not who will win. We know that answer. Iran is no match against the firepower of the west, and we're not talking about America or Israel, cause you can get bet your ass the French and other nations would jump in and bomb Iran as well.

The fact is, Iran is a threat to Europe. Their desire to gain nuclear bombs is clear. Just last month, they launched a satellite rocket into outerspace. That means that they could theoretically take a nuke and send it to any location on earth. Currently, Iran has conventional weapons (the Shihab I, II, III surface to surface missles) that can show up anywhere in Europe. Having nukes would turn Iran into a super power.

But again, bombing is not enough. There needs to be a political agenda and clear alternative for the day after because if not, a vacuum of dissidents and insurgency will appear until it can be decided who the new government is.

The Iranian people will not wait for "General Elections" for a new government. The world needs to fulfill that gap so that after they've been bombed, kids continue to go to school and people receive health and other care.

The solution is NOT bombing them back into the stone age. The only solution is forcing out the current government or assisinating them, or attacking with the clear objective of removing the government.