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Internal Link Passes More PageRank Than External Link

Discussion in 'Link Development' started by digitalpoint, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. #1
    Has anyone else noticed that an internal link seems to pass along more PageRank than an external link?

    Most of my tools have some sort of FAQ page that is only linked from the tool page itself.

    For example:

    http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/search/ is the only page that links to http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/search/faq.html

    Check MSN: [search=msn]link:http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/search/faq.html[/search]

    Check Yahoo [search=yahoo]link:http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/search/faq.html[/search]


    So with a single link, that page is PageRank 6.

    Now there is also a link to the support forum:
    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

    That URL is linked to from numerous other places as well, so at the very least it should have the same PageRank I would think... right?

    Check MSN: [search=msn]link:http://forums.digitalpoint.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14[/search]

    Check Yahoo [search=yahoo]link:http://forums.digitalpoint.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14[/search]


    Instead, that page has a PageRank of 5.

    The only thing I can think of is the support forum isn't on the same sub-domain. Can anyone else shed some light?
     
    digitalpoint, Dec 27, 2005 IP
  2. frankm

    frankm Active Member

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    #2
    just to add to the speculations , as I also have no idea how google handles PR,

    when you have a site like this:
    * Homepage that links to
    * 10 categories that each link to
    * 10 sub pages with some content

    and the homepage has some inbound links and gets PR6, the category pages will always(!) get at least pr5, and the subpages will always(!) get pr4

    when you add some strange inbound / ountband external links on this site, things start to move, and your inner pages end up with higher PR than the homepage etc etc.

    So maybe your FAQ page is not 'really' a pr6, it might as well be a PR4 page, but because it is just one level deeper than the homepage, it is upgraded to PR6 (at least for the toolbar pagerank). External pages do not have a pre-set PR based on the homepage so those pages will actually get a PR4.

    I tested this a year ago, one page, pr5 for months, 2 links, one to an internal page: got a PR4 next update (as expected), and one link to a new/fresh domain and that got a pr3 next update.


    just my 2cnts
     
    frankm, Dec 27, 2005 IP
  3. mdvaldosta

    mdvaldosta Peon

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    #3
    I think it has to do with the number of outgoing links. People have continuously and ferociously argued with me that outgoing links on a page will not affect that pages pagerank, but I disagree.

    The more outgoing links on a page, the less pagerank that gets passed to them. Not only do you affect those pages pagerank, but they also drain yours. I've got proof on my jokes site. www.funnyandjokes.com - the only page that had links to it was the homepage, and it got a PR2. The empty categories pages (the site wasn't done yet) got a PR3 and the pages that did have subcategories got PR1. That's proof enough, but theirs also logic behind it.

    Google's algorithym makes note that the average page on the internet has to have a PR1. Think about it, if this is the case than how could you possibly give pagerank to something without taking it from somewhere else? Conclusion? The more outgoing links on a page, the less PR that can pass to those pages and the more PR to get drained from that page.

    Your FAQ page has few outgoing links on it, other than the navigation. Most of the links pointing to the support forum may be high in PR, but their also alot of outgoing links on those pages.

    For argument, if the PR scale is on a base 8 (just a guess), then it takes 8x more pagerank strength to reach the next level. Based on this, I would say that for every multiple of 8 links on a page then the pages actual PR drops by 1 (8 outgoing drops the pages rank by 1, 64 by 2).

    This is just speculation, but I read the google patent and alot of information about it, and this is my conclusion.
     
    mdvaldosta, Dec 27, 2005 IP
  4. candysmith

    candysmith trying not to be evil

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    #4
    I see the same thing.
    Link from a PR6 home page passes on and the linked to page becomes PR5. (1 link only).
    Interestingly, if I link to that page from a different page from within the site that also has a PR6 that linked page becomes a PR6. (ie. 2 x PR6 links from within the site).

    Thats just my observation.
     
    candysmith, Dec 27, 2005 IP
    Blogmaster likes this.
  5. liquidboy

    liquidboy Peon

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    #5
    Ive read the patent and your definition mdvaldosta does alot of justice to it! However very superficial :)

    The idea of a reserved pool of PR for the entire web and having each website play a part in its equilirbium makes alot of sense to me. Its very similar to how stock markets work especially if you relate a website to a company etc etc.

    Your a very insightful man(woman?) mdvaldosta!
     
    liquidboy, Dec 27, 2005 IP
  6. aaron_nimocks

    aaron_nimocks Im kind of a big deal Staff

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    #6
    I always believed this to be true since all my sites (I usually focus on external linking to homepage only) always have "for example" PR5 home, PR4 1 deep, PR3 2 deep, ect.

    Seems to me it passes 1 PR lower to the next page. But I do believe there is a limit, you cant have 500 links on the homepage and it passes 1 PR down to all those 500.

    But I am currently testing this theory at http://www.donatesearch.com

    I have 450 links on the homepage and seeing if all 450 pages will receive 1 PR down from the homepage. I dont think it will work but it doesnt hurt trying. :)
     
    aaron_nimocks, Dec 27, 2005 IP
  7. mdvaldosta

    mdvaldosta Peon

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    #7
    No I don't believe there is a reserved pool of PR, I believe as Google caches more pages then the bar gets raised. For example it would take twice as many PR "points" to maintain a certain PR if the number of cached pages doubles. So as more pages are added you must acquire more links to maintain the same PR.
     
    mdvaldosta, Dec 27, 2005 IP
  8. Nintendo

    Nintendo ♬ King of da Wackos ♬

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    #8
    I got a PR 6 site and once I made a new site, linked to the new site on the PR 6 site and that new site got a PR 6 from that link. Then after I added two other off-domain links it went down to PR 5. So Google might give less to a link to another domain if there's more than one off site link.
     
    Nintendo, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  9. Dakait

    Dakait Banned

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    #9
    I think both (Internal and External) have same effect. I have seen some variations which may be because of granularity in PR.
     
    Dakait, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  10. daredashi

    daredashi Peon

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    #10
    i totally agree. this is the resone you see single or couple of pages sites having higher PR than portals or big sites.

    i don't how it applies to current calculations but this is very good ref. doc http://www.iprcom.com/papers/pagerank/

    PS : if you have site with many pages and many inbound links. its very complex algo to determine PR. let google do it :D
     
    daredashi, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  11. joeychgo

    joeychgo Notable Member Premium Member

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    #11
    One of my problems with that is that would mean Google penalizes websites for selling advertising. I dont mean selling links - but selling actual advertising space.
     
    joeychgo, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  12. Freddy81

    Freddy81 Active Member

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    #12
    Totally agree. I have a product page - PR7. Online help - PR6. Online help folder - PR5. Single help page - PR4.

    Why this happens? I beleive it is based on "priority". When I created Google Sitemap, I noticed that "priority" of /index.htm is 1.0, and "priority" of ../../index.htm is 0.5. That's it.
     
    Freddy81, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  13. Dakait

    Dakait Banned

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    #13
    Agree...priority matters, as home page have high PR than inner pages (more than 99% of times).

    I have many sites...with Complete Flash on home page (with less back links than inner once) and very resourceful inner pages, yet home page have high PR.
     
    Dakait, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  14. iBold

    iBold Peon

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    #14
    I think thats the smartest thing I've heard anyone say in a long time..sooo much speculation..
     
    iBold, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  15. mdvaldosta

    mdvaldosta Peon

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    #15
    Lol, no the priority you place on in your xml sitemap has no affect on pagerank at all.

    Put a link from your "product page" to your "Single help page" and your single help page will probably jump to a PR6. It'll all about your linking structure, that's why clickable sitemaps are good for spreading out PR.
     
    mdvaldosta, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  16. Freddy81

    Freddy81 Active Member

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    #16
    Where do you know this from? Probably Big G told you that? ;)
     
    Freddy81, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  17. ShandyKing

    ShandyKing Peon

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    #17
    Observation with one OsCommerce site:

    The Home Page has a PR of 6.

    Links to the actual product_info page is 3 links deep (due to category). The three links all retain PR of 5. Then the product page has no PR at all.
     
    ShandyKing, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  18. mdvaldosta

    mdvaldosta Peon

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    #18
    No, my buddy G doesn't give away secrets. It's no secret though that the only purpose of a sitemap is to help the search engines find your web pages. Your linking structure determines your pagerank, and nothing else. Not content, not keywords, not sitemaps... only links.
     
    mdvaldosta, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  19. searchguru

    searchguru Peon

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    #19
    PageRank is basically now useless. What is more important is where your site appears in the SERPs.
     
    searchguru, Dec 28, 2005 IP
  20. Dakait

    Dakait Banned

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    #20
    SERPs depends on PR too, so it is important.
     
    Dakait, Dec 28, 2005 IP