Interesting info about editing and becoming an editor

Well, there's nothing in our Guidelines that says an editor, including metas, can't own a commercial website, as long as they treat it the same way any other site is treated. If you read the links that were just provided on the blog, you'll see that meta editors fall under all the same rules that all editors fall under.

Meta editors can and do lose editing privleges when neccessary.
http://blog.dmoz.org/

There are admins and AOL staff above meta editors, and they also police themselves. To believe otherwise, is to believe that every single meta, admin, and staff member is totally corrupt, and if you believe that, then your xxxx out of luck, because there's nobody higher to appeal to, , so take your marbles and go home, game's over lad.

 

It was founded on corruption and staff and admin ARE above the rules. It would not be all that surprising to know that they didn't mind all that much if those below them partook of the same joys as themselves.

But then, this is not about that, this is about becoming a new editor...and I really do hope that they get some fresh blood in there that are dedicated and willing to overlook the flaws and corruption who will focus on their little niche and make it the best corner of DMOZ that they can.

Maybe with enough clean little corners the goodness will trickle up high enough to wash away some of the Topix listings

 

Getting beyond all the usual sniping and crap from DMOZ trolls, at least I have to give the DMOZ Blogger credit for humor, even if it's inadvertent.

I noted these statements in particular:

Redefining the word "active".

Well, that's the fantasy, anyway...

Okay, here his tenuous grasp on reality lets slip its moorings and swings wholly over to the realm of pure fantasy...

"millions of searchers"?

"many of the leading search engines"?

 

Firstly I have not put you down but asked you to realise, as you were asked at the time, to realise your inexperience and not to behave in the internal forums as you do here as though you were an expert. i have to tell you that 20,000 plus edits which both rob and I have put in do give us some experience that you have not got, but you would not recognise this then or now. Whilst questions are welcomed being lectured about what needs to be done by someone who does not know what happens and someone who will not listen to that advice is something ODP does not need, quite frankly.

If my attention is drawn to a listed site, and I have viewed some because of comments on here and the site is giving problems I will kick it into touch, as you will remember from your time you are required to check that all page links work before adding a site. There is an internal editor tool which can be used with Firefox that does that and if in viewing any site which shows those links not working and it is listed, I would de-list it. In viewing your site rob was obliged, IMHO, to kick it into touch leaving a note why that was done. That is what he did, I have also read the note.

From your comments it looks as though you are asking us to further leave a note that you would not like it to be relisted and, whilst we do not take those instructions, it can sway a mediocre site for listing. Can you confirm you would like to make that comment? Forget2submit.

I do not know an editor worthy of that name that will not remove or add to unreview any site that shows problems of listing the whole of its pages. You know very well that robo runs at times and throws out dozens of sites giving problems. When an editor gets to reviewing the site they are sometimes OK and get returned. Also many editors run tools to find parked and re-directs, they too are added to unreview and when they are reviewed many are returned to the directory, but that can take a long time. I have spent many hours recently across many categories chasing robo reds and still have to go through the ones moved into unreview by other editor tools. There may be some dead links but we work hard to find them and if there is a mistake to return them or find replacements. Sadly your smears are that we seem to enjoy dead links and penalise only you.

I note you do not want to comment on not taking the advice of your mentor, a problem you do seem to keep displaying.

 

Oh no, I'm sure it was just Mr. Jones doing his job...in a category I'm sure he has a HUGE interest in. In fact, I think I recall him poking around several other pagan communities as of late. So I'm sorry if I came off as if I was being singled out

You are not reading things properly. I left because of what was done to Annie. Mr. Jones claims that I left because my site was added. However, I really have no problem with Mr. Jones, and have not berated him at all. The only thing I actually know about him is that we did leave for the same reasons, so armed with that knowledge I have nothing really to berate him about. Unless you are talking about him berating me for leaving after my site was listed and me pointing out that we did leave for the same reasons ~ Annie.

I did consider her advice, in fact I talked to her about it for a few hours over a matter of days. I decided in the end that I do not want to be in a free directory that can accept payments. I may fill in the reinstatement form once that bit is removed from the guidelines. Though thank you for prying into my personal conversations with a person that was fired for listing sites of Digital Point members. (hear that folks, it's an ODP crime to list sites from here).

It is kind of funny that you bring her and Mr. Jones up in the same question though. As every time I mention her he says I'm hiding behind her skirt. It's funny that we left for the same reason (her) yet I'm the bad guy for still defending her while he got reinstated, but I digress...

This thread is about new editors, or rather would be new editors. So again, I'd like to wish anyone applying well and that they have all the blessings of helping to heal DMOZ. Maybe with luck that 6k editor count can double or even triple so that DMOZ can once again claim having an edge. (and I'm actually serious here).

To the higher ranking editors with the power to make change, I hope that the help files, FAQs, and categories for new editors are reviewed and cleaned up so that they can have a clue (something I didn't have, lol) and possibly, maybe a few more (updated) files could get added by some fresh faces. There are many dead links in there, and I'd hate to think that DMOZ would loose it's ODP links (Sorry, couldn't resist )

 

This can be much more elegantly solved like at JoeAnt where new editors get their submission checked and approved by senior editors, DMOZ attitude is except divine meta everyone is guilty and corrupted anyway no proof needed. As if old CIA geezers are running DMOZ and they are afraid of allowing enemy agents to discover their top secrets, to make things even more ridicules SEO freaks have no problems becoming editors since they already know all the tricks, ones who are getting trashed are average surfers who doesn't have a clue about how does DMOZ works and they are quickly branded as spammers and abusers for their lack of knowledge.

Oxymoron of the millennium? Name one example in real life where people policing themselves actually works???? None??? But that by some miracle works at DMOZ???? Year, right and pigs can fly.

 

lol Well, I've seen it happen within the Directory, at a very high level, and I'm not free to discuss that, but, I happen to agree with you. I'd much prefer one 600 lb gorilla with a big club. Just knowing he's there in the background would make it unnecessary for him to act very often.

Well, hey, I could say the same about my yellow page ad in the phone book, too. I know the ad is out there, and I know there are millions of people out there, I just can't say for certain how many of them see my ad. Nothing wrong with being optimistic.

As far as search engines go, the data we collect and organize is freely offered to everyone, so who knows where it ends up being used. What happens downstream is out of our control and really has nothing to do with the tasks we perform in the Directory. I think most of us are more concerned with how to edit and doing things correctly. I know it's way over my head, anyway.

 

Q, we all realize you'd like to be considered a great editor, but it can't be done for the same reason we can't call someone whose romantic experience was largely limited to time alone in the shower a great lover.

What you do for yourself may be nice, but it doesn't generate tons of respect.

 

As you are a senior editor with many edits under your belt I would like to thank you for proving my point on how lower level editors are treated.

 

There is a brilliant follow up blog written by a newbie editor
http://blog.dmoz.org/2007/10/26/i-heart-dmoz-why-i-joined-and-why-i-love-it/
Q might like to take particular notice.

 

I might as well write my story I can only hope it won't get deleted...

 

Rob may take interest too, or even that newbie may take an interest in rob. I mean HOW DARE THEY allow someone with that few edits post in the official blog!!!!

Though why should I pay particular notice of it? I was a new editor, and was thrilled on many levels when I got accepted. I actually had plans on getting into the cat for my local area, but also the neighboring city, and even my old town. I actually did want to be a part of the ODP when I first joined and looked forward to not only helping my online community (of occult communities) but also my local community, and with luck to become a part of another community ~ DMOZ.

What I got was a rather cold shoulder by many people and a lot of broken help files, faqs, and newibie categories.

But do not let me shine it in a completely bad light. I knew that there was good, and I did talk to several editors that did help me figure out a lot of things. I did read some articles and resources that were not broken, and I did have the joys of hunting down several sites to add.

No, I did not do a heck of a lot in the 2 months I was there, but then, I did do more then what was required, and I DID do them for the right reasons, regardless of what some may say.

 

Take a screenshot, I wonder how long will my story stay on the blog.

They don't want devil worshipers as editors, your lucky inquisition got abolished but with new pope not for long and then we shall take care of you heretics!

 

I'd make "burning times" jokes but I'm not sure people here would get it

However, I have noticed that MANY editors have talked about Crystal Balls (here and on internal forums). I always thought that such talk about divination as odd in what I always assumed was not all that magickal of a community (though I've talked to a few pagan/occultist editors).

I just hope the looking for Digtial Point Editors does not turn into a Witch Hunt

 

Good post Ivan, it demonstrates how the system works. You got a warning. You were told what you were doing wrong. You were given the opportunity to respond, and seek clarification. You continued. You got removed. How can you now claim you do not understand why you were removed? There are several posts here at DP in which you admit that you are self interested. Thanks for that example. I hope they don’t delete it.

 

I admitted to making mistake on editor notes but since I never revealed editor name that was hardly capital offense, and self-interest charge is a joke since my editor log speaks for itself or do you listing 300 competitor websites in categories where my website was ALREADY listed before I even become editor is considered self-interests???

I responded and give clarification unless photofox decided to keep my reply to himself? My discussion with brizzie should have also made things clear.

I continued with what exactly? Listing other people websites???? I didn't know that was against DMOZ guidelines, must in one of those unwritten ones.

Please tell where in DMOZ guidelines states that if some dares to be honest and says he has self-interest makes that alone grounds for removal?

http://www.dmoz.org/guidelines/conflict.html
http://www.dmoz.org/guidelines/accounts.html#removal

Did I do any self cooling? Did I prevent competitors from getting listed? Website I did cool WHERE my competitors!!! They had bloody good websites way better then my and deserved to be cooled and most of them still are cooled so NOTHING wrong with my editing!!!!

http://www.dmoz.org/guidelines/meta/apps.html

All my applications for new categories had my website always included to make sure my descriptions are ok by meta, odd that I wasn't discovered right there? Did someone decided to make me a scapegoat?

SO IN OTHER WORDS MY REMOVAL WAS ILLEGAL ACT AGAINST GUIDELINES AND EDITORS INVOLVED SHOULD RESIGN FROM META POSITION AS INCOMPETENT!!!!

 

All 5+ meta editors were wrong and you were right? That seems kind of unlikely. I like PS2, myself, almost as addictive as editing.

I can tell you, this new editor is as honest and enthusiastic as he sounds, and anxious to share his story. I hope more new editors will step forward.

My own impression when I first joined was, "oh my gosh, what have I gotten myself into." The place is massive, the amount of information and help is astounding. My biggest complaint is it's sometimes hard to remember where you saw a piece of information you might need while editing.

What's the community like? Well, there are multiple personalities as you would expect in any community, and there are people whose first language isn't English, others who are very good communicators, some who might not be as talented, some who are impatient, others who are kind, some who participate a lot, and others that you rarely hear from, so it's a mixed bag.

Everybody has an equal voice, and a new editor can disagree with a meta editor and receive a respectful, patient answer. (Unless, of course, they persist in not learning what's being taught just through stubbornness) .

A question is asked, and multiple editors will answer, so the person gets more than one perspective/opinion. Issues are brought up for discussion and a consensus reached among whichever editors are interested in it.

When you become an editor, you can sit there like a lump on a log, or you can work hard to expand your editing permissions higher or wider, it's totally up to you. Nobody is held back, the meta community wants editors to learn and expand their activities, but, they want them to do things correctly, so somebody else doesn't have to spend time cleaning up after them.

You're not given further permissions until you've demonstrated proper editing practices and your understanding of them in your current categories. Nothing holds you back but yourself, .

 

The rules for removal of editors are not a clear cut issue, rather they are taken on a case by case basis. The rules say that an editor does NOT need to be given a warning, and when warnings are given they can be in passing through chat rooms rather then through the official dashboard system. Once the editor is removed there is no means of appeal unless an admin wants to look into the mater, but even then, there is nothing official that the editor can actually do.

The only thing an editor can do is say "I didn't do anything wrong" to which the meta community can say "yes you did" because for some reason, one rule they do adhere too is not giving information out (even when requested by the person said info is about).

So if you want to talk about how the system works so that new editors can really see what it's like to be an editor, tell the story correctly, and don't leave out the part that NO PROOF is needed to fire an editor, only the signature of one Meta and four of her friends ~ as again, that is how things work, officially.

 

Who said there was 5 of them in the first place? Since we don't have access to meta forum they can claim anything they want and from what I have seen in other community such matters are basically done with one admin/meta starting things and then getting few other admins to show support without questioning or reexamining evidence for themselves.

And how evidence is gathered we have seen from other cases - maybe Rafael Pérez is one of the metas?

How can they have equal voice when removed editor doesn't even know they are about to remove him, can't defended, isn't allowed to know the reason, and nobody gives a **** about appeal.

That must be why last two categories I've asked to be moved from my test folder where never touched.

And lazy metas who take weeks to approve or reject your application.

 

Well, seein as there are metas, admins, and AOL staff at the top, I guess you'll just have to take their word for it. It's unlikely you'll be invited to visit their forum for a tour, any more than I will, .

Metas are volunteers also, with real lives, and if they were going to approve me for wider permissions that I requested, it's going to take awhile for them to examine my track record and make sure I ain't going to screw up the whole area if they do grant me the permissions.

Plus, they have a responsibility to be thorough. Other metas and the whole editing community expect them to make the correct decision, the first time. A wrong decision could wreak havoc on the Directory and create a lot of unneccessary cleanup work.