Illegal Immigration thread

Thank You for Your delightful and constructive comments. Clearly, i am not as smart as You. Indeed should i make a sarcastic remark with personal experience which dismisses hearsay is nothing compared to the well educated, well founded, insightful, yet baseless hearsay You present. Forgive my insolence. Personal experience from peons, such as I, is worthless, but Your opinions are indeed are the salt of the earth.

Irrelevant. One crime does not justify a lesser crime.

I only have one and only one problem with illegal immigrants. The ILLEGAL part.

 

since you are not even from the USA, how do you know how companies down here pay their workers? Or are you a supporter of illegal aliens? You apparently don't mind if they are in a country that is not yours...however, we do. Furthermore, as I said before, most illegals get paid under the table. Most of the ones I see don't work at walmart, but instead work in the yard scaping business...they get paid with cash, not with checks. Most of these companies are not even big enough to hire more than two or three anyway.

 

I seen illegal imigrants concentrated in the following areas, with the approximate hourly cash (non-taxed, under the table) pay. Since this is my experience on the East coast, other areas will be different.

• land/yard-scaping ($15+)
• construction and home upgrades ($20+ and if pro, even more)
• Food industry (restaurants, food prep) ($8+ )
• Farming livestock, fruits and vegetables (per 'piece', or $10+)
• Cleaning ($10+ but a motivated person can take in $50+ easily)

I have no problem listening and taking it into consideration constructive criticism from a non-US citizen. I am just still waiting for the constructive part...

 

I have studied, lived and worked in USA. I still have both a house and businesses in USA but obviously from your previous post, we can clearly see that you have never worked or received a pay check which makes you most likely a 15-16 years old boy.

Do I support illegal aliens? Not officially and that is the reason that we require all our employees provide a SSN number and we hire many Mexicans. Do I think that a certain percentage of my employees are illegal aliens? definitely because I am a realistic. This is today's American and as long as the economy doesn't change, neither employers or government is going to pay attention to any of the protests.

 

You guys just don't get it. And at the very bottom of this lies bold-faced prejudice.

I don't believe 90% of you would even know how to clean a chicken. And I KNOW 90% of you wouldn't dream of doing it for 7.00 bucks an hour.

You've foolishly created a welfare state that has been the ruination of the American inner city, and the destruction of the American family unit. You can't get folks, American folks to work for these wages when the welfare benefits of the homegrowners are so much easier to just sit around and wait for.

Yet you have a hard working conservative family oriented people who are only too happy to WORK for said wages, which you got no problem with on the face if it...

But then you go and deny them any opportunity to participate in a compassionate sensible LEGAL guest worker program which would allow a percentage of their wages to go towards medical during their stay here - AND ACCUSE THEM OF ABUSING THE DISGUSTINGLY STUPID CASTRATING SYSTEM, the ONLY ONE AVAILABLE TO THEM!!! which YOU YOURSELVES created!!!

You want your cake and to eat it too... You want your cake cooked by Mexican bakers, and served by Mexican waiters, the dishes washed by Mexican dishwashers... but then, when the day is done, you want to tell them to all go shit in their sombreros.

I just don't get how you can all be so double-minded. I believe it must be prejudice. I pray I'm wrong.

 

You are totally wrong and I am neither prejudice nor ignorant. What you are experiencing is the "easy way out" or the "I'm personally involved with ILLEGAL ALIENS" arguments. The prejudice argument is sooo cliche and played out. It is a generalization in the most basic and elementary way. I'll squash it with one sentence. Are you ready? Here it is:

"LEGAL immigrants, i.e. non-white people, are against ILLEGAL ALIENS."

The hell you say! No, I mean it! Really! But why would immigrants be against other immigrants? Because LEGAL immigrants know that they waited patiently and properly to join the USA and become an American, not an impatient criminal. The legal immigrant RESENTS the cut in line and the wasted resources and they are completely right.

These weak prejudice arguments are brought to the table when one does not want to look at the real problem because A) they don't have a real answer to the real problem and cannot accept the fact that they cannot easily answer, or B) they have an agenda because they are personally involved with ILLEGAL ALIENS in one form or another.

Let's further address the first and insurmountable problem with ILLEGAL ALIENS. It is the first word of the first sentence, ILLEGAL. Now what part of this do you not understand? Why would you want to bring people into this country whose very first thing they do is break the law. Why? Why-why-why? Do you not respect yourself or country enough to want the best for it / you? The best is not crawling in the dirt trying to circumvent the legal system of the country they are trying to steal citizenship from.

Amnesty is a big stinking pile of dog crap. That's all I have to say about amnesty ~ puke.

I do, however agree with you that we should find a better way to deal with the working poor - welfare. That solution, however should NEVER - EVER include allowing ILLEGAL ALIENS in any way. If I ruled my world, I'd stop handing out money and start handing out paper chef hats.

 

This is a completely ad hoc argument, having nothing to do with the issue at hand. A generalization, one which you cannot substantiate, and... talk about "played out" your miopic self-absorbed fish bowl approach is precisely what has created the problem. You offer no solution anchored in reality, you simply bang the drum, rattle the sabre, and work up for a bunch of undeserving politicians their unremarkable platforms.

Gee thanks.

 

What are you talking about? It has everything to do with the issue at hand. Weak people who cannot come to terms with the problem throw up their hands and call those who want to find a solution to the invasion, bigots. It's the most ridiculous cliche argument in ILLEGAL immigration.

Los Angeles, CA 1/24 Channel 4 news at 6 pm - they interviewed an Asian immigrant who said she resented ILLEGAL ALIENS. There. I substantiated my swatting down of YOUR generalization.

I don't know how you could possibly have any data linking me to the problem. Certainly you can't believe that my hatred of the ILLEGAL ALIEN problem perpetuates illegal immigration? That would be a lame circular argument. Tell me what you're thinking here. Give me some detail.

You should read back through the thread.

->> I want to put troops on the border to stop the flood of invaders.

->> I want to immediately deport ILLEGAL aliens who are caught.

->> I want ILLEGAL aliens to serve time in their country.

->> I want the US to tighten its pursestrings with Mexico and demand they fix their own problem of mass exodus.

->> I want to stop being such pussies dealing with this outright invasion.

How's that? What now? Are you going to tell me that the US will fall apart without the ILLEGAL ALIEN now?

 

This is more concrete.

http://dontspeakforme.org/

http://dontspeakforme.org/principles.html

I think this is an ineffective method. The system is in place. Require that each company verify the SS of the person they're hiring. Such a system exists, but the government doesn't mandate it.

The loop-hole in the law is that if you don't know you can't be held accountable. Therefore when it comes down to it these businesses act like they don't know what they're doing. A great deal of these folks work under false SS numbers or duplicates.

This would greatly impede the desire to come here.

1/2 of them come through vistor/temporary visas. So ultimately one has to address the things that keep them here, not the ways they get here.

What's further interesting is that poverty is mostly a problem of their 'darker' population ie southern Mexico. Northern Mexico, while not admirable is comparable to certain parts of America. The true difference are actually currency rates and stability (ie actual rule of law).

Mexico's on it's way to being a descent country, but being poor in America is like being a king in comparision.

Mexico's very harsh to those whom come in their country illegally, and not so equal with those whom come legally, either.

I don't blame the illegal immigrants, but on the same token I don't wish appease them. Just because I want to live in my friends mansion doesn't mean I can.

They're having difficult times in reforming, due to the structure within. Mexico would change within years if it allowed more investement within. Those changes require constitutional changes, and that's just too hard at this point in time (due to political interference).

But they do need to be pressured. I think the unfortunate problem is our government realizes we don't want to piss-off a major oil supplier of America.

All the more reason we need alternative energy source, being that we can only trust Canada not to fuck-us.

Not me. 'We needed slaves,' at one time!? Of coarse that wasn't true. In fact mechanization is heavily impeded with labor of that kind. Higher and tighter labor costs usually end-up equally higher efficiency in the long-run...it just gives further initiative to innovate in any given market. Look at the games OPEC plays to keep oil prices within certain ranges....continue high prices mean innovation, and that's a big 'no,no' for them.

Although I'm not for run-away wages, and think our market has to weigh the pro and cons of immigration in any given sector (with prudence). Many labor markets are just heading downwards, which means you'll just have a pool of people not keeping up with the inflation and modern living standards. But I guess if that's the goal,...to have a whole bunch of poor people...then what ever.

 

LOL... Really, this is laughable. First off it has NOTHING to do with Illegal Immigration, unless of course you are a "legal Immigrant" and are offering your opinion, and even then only for yourself and not as a supposed, unclearly defined broad swab of so-called Legal Immigrants. Secondly, you yourself offer NO solution, unless of course, and I must paraphrase your quote, you would 'throw every American now on welfare OFF welfare and give them a paper chef's hat.'

.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.... I appreciate your sense of humor.

As for the "other" reasons you now reiterate:

-Troops are already on the border, once again you offer no new approach to ending the still existing problem.

And lower taxes no doubt, LOL, who on earth do you think will be able to afford this??? What abuses of humanity do you think might occur??? Oh, my Lord, what a catastrophe this would bring. Even President Bush has acknowledged this would be an impossible approach.

I thought we were discussing the problem facing America. Now you are going to dictate to a foriegn country what they should do to their people. Nice approach. Again I applaud you.

THIS is part one of a real strategy.

I think you mean you want us to stop being such hypocrits and stop sending invitations and then trying to 86 them from the party once they arrive.

Now Rick Michael:

As for your "Don't Speak for ME" garbage. You have GOT to be kidding me. You know, anyone who thinks these people speak for the roughly 38 million hispanics in this country TRULY needs a reality check.

The government doesn't mandate it because, (despite the fact that our politicians get elected on the ho-hum platforms of being tough on illegal immigration which you provide these self-serving do-nothing politicians), - EVEN THEY REALIZE WE ACTUALLY DO NEED THEM AND SO SIMPLY IGNORE YOU ONCE ELECTED. In other words, they use you - then abandon you. Like I said earlier - nice job, well done, gee, thanks alot.

 

Well, no culture/race has uniformity in opinion. I grew-up when this all started to evolve. My friends whom had latin blood actually hated 'wetbacks'...so did their families...never quite understood why. I never really paid attention at that point in time, because I was young and never thought of the consequences.

I'm not sure that's the answer. We didn't need slaves, but the owners and their constituents definitely didn't want to lose them...nor did those whom could gain politically. That seems to me, to be a more viable answer.

I never voted for Republican or Democrat (yet), but I know the gist of their history in congress. Democrats are almost uniformly for continual expansion of immigration. Republicans have a mixed platform, where a growing number in the house doesn't support expansive and chaotic immigration, but a great deal of the senate republicans do. I'm not going blame whole parties, as they're all differents, running under all different interests.

 

The problem of immigration is at the source.
Whatever it is in the US or Europe, the immigration laws are too vague to do well.
The day we have clear immigration laws at the source, illegal immigration will decrease tremendously.
Why not say this:
Anyone who want to migrate to the US (Europe) will get an approval, so no need to sneak through the borders anymore, in these condition only:
Must make an application at the US (Europe) embassy in their country.
Must present an official document with positive background checks
Must pass the national language exam with 80% success
Must pass the national history exam with 80%
Must convert to the national religion and/or give up present religion
Proof of national job or investment
Candidate will receive an admitance card that he will need to provide to any authority officer asking it (traffic-border-IRS-DHS-etc...) (profiling)
At the first infraction, the candidate will be deported, no question asked.

I'm sure there are more stuff to add here like wear national clothes ( not just a bone in the nose because you come from the jungle) or whatever else...
I'm sure the applicant, if bona fide, will go for it. And you'll get good people only. Don't forget to profile though...

What else can we say??

 

We can say, how do you come up with these crazy ideas?
What is the national religion of USA or Europe?
What is the national clothes of USA or Europe?

 

I don't know...try to help

The one that has a majority of adepts, maybe

Jeans, polo shirt, suit...just want to avoid naked people with the bone stuff in the nose ( which is a deep exemple ) even if that problem is less difficult in USA than in Europe IMO...

 

I'm guessing you're not being serious.

 

I might be.
However, I was in Brussels recently, where I heard lots of people complaining about these ladies with the same clothes wore in Afghanistan, with only a little net in front of the eyes for the view. And to be honest, I saw a lot of them in the 2 days I was there...
Basicaly, they were complaining about clothes integration...
If they complain, it is a problem, more problems tend to conflicts...
So something has to be done in order to avoid conflict. So, see my tip above

 

In this case, may be you should start with converting all the Jews, Catholics, Muslims,.... in USA to Protestants before you start on immigrants.

I suppose you haven't been to any of nude beaches in Europe or nudist colonies in north America, you will see more naked people in these places than the whole Africa.

 

But - you do.

Hmmm... Sort of sounds like you are prejudice - are you suggesting only Mexicans illegal aliens can do the menial job of chicken cleaning? Sort of sounds like stereotyping, doesn't it?

You have no idea who we are. I could be a Mexican. I could be a Puerto Rican. A first generation, a second gen, or even an illegal alien.

I am happy to demonstrate how to clean a chicken, skin a rabbit, plow a field, pick berries, drywall, fix up a yard, wash dishes, or any other laborious job you are suggesting only illegal aliens will do.

We all agree, there are legal residents whom are happy to take any of the jobs currently held by illegal aliens.

Who are them? You mean those people? (prejudice)
Yes. That is called sovereign right. What is it you are yelling about? Does your location governed through chaotic anarchy?

I prefer more hygenic method, but if you think that is how Mexicans are, I cannot stop you from being prejudice.

I am still not sure what is your misguided point here... Are you saying we want the illegal aliens to work these jobs but don't want them once they are done? First, I believe the commute would be quite cumbersome. Second, I also believe you failed to read most of our comments. We are all in agreement that once you are a legal resident, what you do, becomes irrelevant.

We are struggling with the illegal part. In case you forgot between your prejudice comments.

Your prayer has been answered. You just refuse to get into the boat.

I just have to stop here...

I continue to be baffled. You make statements, but provide no solution yourself.

You belittle others suggestions, yet you provide no evidence of their incorrectness, furthermore you demand proof.

So proofs are provided, and instead of saying - "this is no proof because ..." - you simply belittle and attack the individual.

Let me understand how you discuss topics. First you declare no one understand the problem, except you. You also declare that everyone is prejudice, despite your constant pre-judgement and social stereotyping of "those" illegal aliens.

Additionally when someone ask for your resolution, instead of responding with your basis, you insult them, and reject their references.

Are you a politician by any chance?

 

Do you have a fascination with 15-16 year old boys? You use that age in many of your posts....also, i am hardly that young, and yes, I have worked hard in the USA and made plenty of pay checks...my wife and I do just fine in the financial world. And if the USA is so bad, then why do you live, study and pretend that you work here? Oh yeah, because the USA is great for those things, which is why he have millions of ILLEGAL aliens coming into this country daily...they (and you) need to go back home.

 

Is this part of your fantasy about studying for your MBA?

If you had any work experience and received a pay check then you would have known how the employer calculates the taxes and deduct the taxes before they pay the employee.

How about instead of wasting your time posting stupid posts, you use the weekend to study and try to get a good grades in high school, so you won't end up in a dead end job that you have to blame the immigrants for your failures in life.