IE8 vs FF3

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by worldman, Mar 20, 2008.

?

Who will win?

  1. IE8

    68 vote(s)
    17.9%
  2. FF3

    286 vote(s)
    75.3%
  3. Undecided

    26 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. PaddyL

    PaddyL Active Member

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    #101
    Well, I wasn't insisting that you do that! :eek: (You don't sound mean at all, just humorous.)

    Generally, if your web page works with IE, FF and Opera, then you've covered all bases. Opera is (I believe) the only browser to fully implement all standards correctly. It passes the Acid2 test, which both IE and FF fail (IE7 fails badly).

    You don't have to do this, naturally. It's entirely your choice! Serious designers, though, want their pages to work with as many people as (practically) possible, and experience shows that covering those three browsers tends to make your pages readable on just about all modern computers, from Windows to Mac to Linux, and even (usually) those little hand-held devices such as PSP's and modern telephones.

    I test my pages on all three browsers.

    If you're only interested in catering for IE users, then of course you won't want to bother with FF, Opera or anything else. Many designers would agree with you on that point (which is why, when I come across those sites, I leave fast; because they don't work on FF, which is what I like to use). That's just a personal opinion; it's neither right nor wrong.

    If you're interested in Opera (which you probably aren't), go to the Opera web page, or just Google "Opera"; it's the first listed.
     
    PaddyL, Mar 25, 2008 IP
  2. niessuh

    niessuh Well-Known Member

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    #102
    a vote for FF3.. firefox rocks
     
    niessuh, Mar 25, 2008 IP
  3. -RooneY-

    -RooneY- Peon

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    #103
    Gosh.

    I kill some random. But I should not be convicted..you know why ??? Coz how many people in this world have same strong character and morals as Lincoln had.

    Stop justifying the wrong just because wrong is widespread. Thats the first step to destruction. All through, you are trying to justify IE and Microsoft on some ground or other even using some very flimsy and unjustified grounds like most pages are not validated. Most of the people are not saints - So what ? Should murder, robbery, rape be made legal ?
     
    -RooneY-, Mar 25, 2008 IP
  4. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #104
    Then you still have it backwards. Since FF is much more standards compliant than IE (even Microsoft says so) then following IE is like coding to a bug. Web developers never use IE as the reference. So if you use a buggy IE to test your markup, how can you expect modern browsers to render buggy code? After all, IE7 is 10 years behind web standards while ALL other browsers are reasonably current.

    Never, ever use IE as an initial test. Always, always use a modern browser like FF/Opera/Safari.

    Also, validated markup does not mean you coded it right. It's like I can write "Car laughing dog serious." A spell checker will say there's nothing wrong with that but, of course, the sentence doesn't make any sense.

    Opera, btw, is the browser of choice for mobile applications, phones and some game consoles. To ignore Opera is to ignore those.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Mar 25, 2008 IP
  5. SitPoMk

    SitPoMk Peon

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    #105
    I have a joke guys ....

    Microsoft goes gecko :D:D
     
    SitPoMk, Mar 25, 2008 IP
  6. tankard

    tankard Well-Known Member

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    #106
    I know, I know, guys, you are both right. I am just going into polemics and irony. I am a Conservative (read my Location) and cannot seem to accept that somebody else could use a different browser. Oh, how dare you!!! :D
     
    tankard, Mar 26, 2008 IP
  7. emielvenlo

    emielvenlo Active Member

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    #107
    IE does not work on my linux system, so there is not much to shoose from.
     
    emielvenlo, Mar 26, 2008 IP
  8. ecommerce_guru

    ecommerce_guru Notable Member

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    #108
    FF all the way.
     
    ecommerce_guru, Mar 26, 2008 IP
  9. worldman

    worldman Notable Member

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    #109
    I am not compromising principles. Microsoft has not broken any laws not making its browser compatible with every single code the W3C dishes out. If they broke a law than you would have a point.

    How you are talking; its like comparing "a murder case" to "someone deciding that they do not want to listen to their teacher and walks out of class"

    There's a difference might I remind you;)
     
    worldman, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  10. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #110
    In the late 1990s, Microsoft was sued by the US Justice Department, and several states, over this and related items. Currently, in Europe, the EU has fined Microsoft $1.35Billion dollars for non-compliance with their current terms and there is a current complaint against them for browser non-compliance.

    Microsoft is a member of the W3C and co-chairs HTML5. If Microsoft doesn't like what is being produced, they can take it up with themselves.

    The W3C invented the world wide web, html and css, and many other internet technologies. They have every right to describe standards. Every browser vendor in the world does this and they are much smaller than Microsoft. If every other browser vendor can pass (or almost pass) a suite of standards tests (such as Acid3), why can't Microsoft. After all, they wrote it.
    It's OUR internet. Microsoft didn't invent it. Microsoft doesn't own it. If Microsoft wants to use it, they have to play by the rules of the road. If you want to produce a car, it has to play by your country's "rules of the road". Particularly if your car is the majority produced for drivers. (A monopoly)
     
    drhowarddrfine, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  11. PaddyL

    PaddyL Active Member

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    #111
    How many Acid tests are there?
    Where do I find them?
     
    PaddyL, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  12. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #112
    There are three. I don't recall anything about the first one. Each tests multiple areas of the standard. (Actually, that's a misconception but I don't have time to go into it now).

    You can find the guide, and the actual online test, by going to webstandards dot org, with a slash at the end, and acid2 or acid3. (I'm not allowed to post links yet)
     
    drhowarddrfine, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  13. bigdork

    bigdork Peon

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    #113
    Here you go PaddyL

    http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html#top
     
    bigdork, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  14. hash899

    hash899 Peon

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    #114
    FF3 will def pawn IE8
     
    hash899, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  15. PaddyL

    PaddyL Active Member

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    #115
    Thanks to both of you.

    I've managed to root out all three, and I've tested IE7, FF2 and Opera 9 on my Vista system:

    Acid1
    http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS1/current/test5526c.htm
    (All three browsers pass)

    Acid2
    http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html
    Opera: Pass
    FF: Fail
    IE: Bad fail

    Acid3
    http://acid3.acidtests.org/
    Opera: Crashes :eek:
    FF: Fail (54%)
    IE: Fail (12%)

    I understand that Acid3 is still under development, so it's possible that it's causing at least some of the failure.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid3
     
    PaddyL, Mar 28, 2008 IP
    bigdork likes this.
  16. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

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    #116
    Test Kmeleon.
     
    Jackuul, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  17. izwanmad

    izwanmad Banned

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    #117
    I'm sure with firefox....
     
    izwanmad, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  18. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #118
    K-Meleon uses the same engine as Firefox. Acid3 is virtually complete. It's only in bug checking mode. Opera passed, then a bug was found in the test, and now they pass again. (The current build). Safari just passed, um, I think today. Last I heard it was at 98/100.

    Despite all the hoopla, while I think the test is helpful, maybe even constructive, it is no indication of overall compliance with web standards. A bad browser (**cough**IE**cough) is a bad browser and can pass Acid2, at least, without doing much of anything else right. Even Opera developers will tell you that. (In fact, they told me that. Chris Mills and Simon Pieter).
     
    drhowarddrfine, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  19. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

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    #119
    kmeleon uber alles.
     
    Jackuul, Mar 28, 2008 IP
  20. leo7068

    leo7068 Active Member

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    #120
    more people will use IE8, but the masses are idiots.
     
    leo7068, Mar 28, 2008 IP