Ideas on link building......................

Discussion in 'Link Development' started by MattUK, May 23, 2006.

  1. #1
    What are your opinions on this, I was just having this discussion with my colleague,

    In your opinion what would be better to place emphasis on, we both agree that high pagerank is better than a low pagerank, but how to quantify this?

    For example in a link building campaign focusing on links from relevent pages only, would you prefer to have,

    (a) 4 relevent PR5 links or
    (b) 10 relevent PR3 links

    Whjat would you rather place priority on?
     
    MattUK, May 23, 2006 IP
  2. rosiee007

    rosiee007 Notable Member

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    #2
    I'd go for 4 relevent PR5 links
     
    rosiee007, May 23, 2006 IP
  3. T0PS3O

    T0PS3O Feel Good PLC

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    #3
    10 X PR3 for me.

    One drops and you won't notice it as much as 1 x PR5 dropping.

    It's also more 'votes' for you.

    Also increases the chance of actual targeted traffic though it obviously 'depends' a lot.

    Also gives you a higher chance you;ll end up with 10 x PR 4 in a few months, automatically.
     
    T0PS3O, May 23, 2006 IP
  4. Subzero

    Subzero Well-Known Member

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    #4
    I will go for:
    (b) 10 relevent PR3 links

    As tops30 said its more votes to your site and the chance that they will increase to PR 4+ is good.
     
    Subzero, May 23, 2006 IP
  5. GULLIVER

    GULLIVER Well-Known Member

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    #5
    I also agree with TOPS3O regarding the traffic.
    But about PR3 becomeing PR5, I think there is also the opposite way, so it can get down and you will get 10 PR1 links, which isn't good at all!
     
    GULLIVER, May 23, 2006 IP
  6. thudufushi

    thudufushi Well-Known Member

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    #6
    a) 4 relevent PR5 links

    For sure!
     
    thudufushi, May 23, 2006 IP
  7. T0PS3O

    T0PS3O Feel Good PLC

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    #7
    I like your reasoning... :rolleyes:
     
    T0PS3O, May 23, 2006 IP
  8. mad4

    mad4 Peon

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    #8
    Most sites owned by somebody smart enough to be selling links (I assume you are buying the links otherwise you could just have them all for free) are likely to increase in PR and popularity. Unless they are just to make money from link sales of course.

    My main factor at the moment is ranking in google. If a site is selling links and has a good ranking in google for a related keyword then its value can be double that of a similar site thats not ranked in google.
     
    mad4, May 23, 2006 IP
  9. Artur

    Artur Peon

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    #9
    from Wikipedia:

    “Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.”

    To me, it means:

    higher PR+ relevancy + other factors = higher ranking
    lower PR+ relevancy + other factors = lower ranking

    so, the more relevant links from high PR pages, the better for the page rank of my page = better SERPS

    the question is how to calculate the value of link.

    Tools like "link price calculator" price link from PR3 page as $2/month, and one from PR4 page worth as much as $30/month

    http://www.webconfs.com/link-value.php

    So my answer is 4 PR4 relevant links are better value than 10 PR3.

    More on PR:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_rank

    http://www.iprcom.com/papers/pagerank/
     
    Artur, May 23, 2006 IP
  10. T0PS3O

    T0PS3O Feel Good PLC

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    #10
    That wasn't the question though.

    What does this mean to you?

    few higher PR+ relevancy + other factors = ??? ranking
    more lower PR+ relevancy + other factors = ??? ranking
     
    T0PS3O, May 23, 2006 IP
  11. MattUK

    MattUK Notable Member

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    #11
    I'm still unsure. If I was going to come down one way or another it would probably be for higher quantities over higher pagerank.

    I think the actual Pagerank of a pge helps you minimally in the SERPS. PR is itself being a product of IBLs as are the rankings themselves. i.e.

    IBLs + Relevancy + anchor text = rankings + PR
    IBLs = PR

    I know the above is a generalisation, though I can only see it not being true for sites that don't rank for any competitive search terms.

    I don't think the link price of a link can be taken as an indicator of it's value in ranking terms. The link prices a in my view inflated by webmasters that place too much importance on PR leading to the higher prices.

    I'm still fairly undecided on this problem. It's so difficult as it's almost impossible to quantify the value of the additional PR as a trade off against the additional cost of the link.

    I'm still open to opinions and arguements!
     
    MattUK, May 23, 2006 IP
  12. Artur

    Artur Peon

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    #12
    The question was:

    4 relevent PR5 links or
    10 relevent PR3 links

    My answer is:

    4 relevent PR5 links
     
    Artur, May 23, 2006 IP
  13. MattUK

    MattUK Notable Member

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    #13
    Bumping this as I'd like to get some more opinions.
     
    MattUK, May 24, 2006 IP
  14. jawinn

    jawinn Active Member

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    #14
    10 PR3's More is better IMO.

    Just b/c a site is a PR 5 doesn't mean it will deliver more traffic to yours. I also agree with the idea that these could become 10 PR 4-5 with the PR update.
     
    jawinn, May 24, 2006 IP
  15. trivum

    trivum Peon

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    #15
    In my opinion, the difference between PR3 and PR5 is a lot greater than the difference between 4 links and 10 links. I would even take 4 PR5 links over 30 PR3 links.
     
    trivum, May 25, 2006 IP
  16. Tim_Myth

    Tim_Myth Peon

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    #16
    There's an old saying: "I'd rather have 1% from 100 men than 100% from 1 man." The logic is that if one man goes down, you still have 99%.

    But you wanted a way to quantify this, so we'll use the simple estimation formula for passing PR from http://www.iprcom.com/papers/pagerank/. Assume each page has 20 outgoing links (this really won't matter much for our puposes though).
    PR 5 links
    PR Passed=(1-d) + d (PR(T1)/C(T1)
    PR Passed=.15 + .85 (5/20)
    PR Passe=.3625
    4*.3625=1.45 (because we have 4 PR5 links)
    PR 3 links
    PR Passed=(1-d) + d (PR(T1)/C(T1)
    PR Passed=.15 + .85 (3/20)
    PR Passed=.2775
    10*.2775=2.775 (because we have 10 PR 3 links)

    So, only looking at PR, 10 PR 3 links are better than 4 PR 5 links.

    However, as others have also pointed out, the PR 3 pages will probably grow over time. The PR 5 pages probably won't grow PR at the same percentage, so they are less likely to be good "investments" over time.

    And finally, just like buying more lottery tickets improves your chances of winning, hjaving more inks improves your chances of being found. If you had to rely solely on links for traffic, there is a greater chance that you would be found with 10 links than 4.

    Does that quantify it sufficiently for you? :)
     
    Tim_Myth, May 25, 2006 IP
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  17. MattUK

    MattUK Notable Member

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    #17
    I totally agree with your logic, and it's correct, the links will pass PR. Though I don't actually believe this is a mjor factor in the rankings. I suppose I'm asking if the effect of the extra relevent links on the SERPS (votes if you will) will outweigh the extra PR that is passed.
    I've still not seen anything to convince me either way, though if pushed I'd have to come sown on the side of the extra links.
    Maybe I'll look at doing a test to settle it once and for all.
     
    MattUK, May 26, 2006 IP
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  18. Tim_Myth

    Tim_Myth Peon

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    #18
    I was hoping that I could get more data about the effects of backlinks on SERPs by using the neat-o tool at webuildpages (www.webuildpages.com/neat-o/). I wanted to use a page about George Bush(http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html) because it is the first result for the search term "failure". Since this word does not appear on the page, it must have attained that position by a large number of backlinks with the anchor text "failure". Indeed, Google shows 3820 backlinks! Unfortunately, the neat-o tool only finds one backlink, and it can't grab the anchor text from it. It may be broken. :(

    The backlink analyzer at http://www.webconfs.com/anchor-text-analysis.php seems to do a better job, but is less user friendly. It reported on 90 of the links, and of those 40 had anchor text that couldn't be resolved (possibly pictures) and 23 contained the word failure. I did not look at the PR of the linking pages however.
     
    Tim_Myth, May 26, 2006 IP
  19. MattUK

    MattUK Notable Member

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    #19
    I think the way to do it would be to create two pages with the same text but two different nonsensical keywords that are placed in the same positions on the page. Then send links from pages (from the same site) in the numbers I've quoted above.
    I don't think it'll give a definitive answer, but hopefully it'll give me a better idea in the PR Vs Quantity battle :)
    Anyone got any comments on this before I start?
     
    MattUK, May 26, 2006 IP
  20. Cheap SEO Services

    Cheap SEO Services <------DoFollow Backlinks

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    #20
    I agree with Tops30 too! I have over 2000 backlinks for one site ranging from PR0 to PR7. I don't really get bothered that much if some links drop out due to so many being live. Keeps things consistent and traffic remains stable.
     
    Cheap SEO Services, May 26, 2006 IP