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i have a hatered for islam

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by samantha pia, Oct 13, 2006.

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  1. BRUm

    BRUm Well-Known Member

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    #221
    Hi guys, what's up? :)
    SEMrush
     
    BRUm, Oct 20, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #222
    Watchin' the 'net; havin' a Bud.
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  3. ItsAFastWorld

    ItsAFastWorld Peon

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    #223
    @samantha,

    Just because you have a problem with Islam does not give you the right to express your opinion in such a vulgar, offensive and immature fashion.

    Then again you might want to pick up some readings on Islam, so you fully understand it before you judge it. Marriage at young age has more to do with tribalism and traditions than with religion. In certain countries in Africa, girls are still forced to marry at 12 or even less, and they have no relation to Islam.
     
    ItsAFastWorld, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  4. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #224
    Tribalism and tradition are no longer excuses for heinous behavior. Whatever its genesis, a wrong is still a wrong.

    One example, a tragic statistic: Sub-Saharan Africa, home to 11% of the world's population, is also home to 70% of the world's HIV+ population. It cannot be ignored that "tradition" - such as extensive prostitution along commercial trucking routes, unprotected sex with these prostitutes (and assessments of masculinity by multiple, unprotected sexual "conquests"), and infection of one's family - has played a significant role.

    This is but one example.
     
    northpointaiki, Oct 20, 2006 IP
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  5. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #225
    Ths reminds me of every little child on earth who has ever tried the lame excuse "But the other kids are doing it...".

    Yes Timmy, and if the other kids were jumping off bridges, would you do that too?
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  6. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #226
    Supposedly there's a lot of anal going on in northern africa....which is prodomintely how it spreads.
     
    Rick_Michael, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  7. syed123

    syed123 Well-Known Member

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    #227
    "That man is a Muslim who never hurts anyone by word or deed, but who works for the benefit and happiness of God's creatures. Belief in God is to love one's fellow men."


    "hurts anyone by word" is strongly despised - let alone hurting an innocent physically. Is that quote good enough?
    Islam does not preach war but.. Yes, you are a matyr if you die fighting to save your country, for your people and even your property. In another words, Islam does not allow war for materialistic purposes and only for noble cause.
    There are many guidelines when in war. For example, one cannot harm children, women and the elderly. One cannot harm an unarmed person.

    I dont even know why we are discussing religions.. but I just had to clear that up.
     
    syed123, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  8. syed123

    syed123 Well-Known Member

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    #228
    Samantha, I only wish you had accumulated more facts and cited sources before you concluded on this.

    Are you saying that muslims kill their sisters, mothers and wives? If that was true the total muslim population would reduce to 1% of what it is now.

    Treatment of women in Islam:

    In the pre-Islamic period, men used to have many wives and there was no limit on number of wives a man could have but the average was around 11. Islam limited that number to 4. So as opposed to what many people think, Islam did not introduce 4 polygamy but only reduced it and put a limit on it.
    Also, Islam clearly states that the purpose of having more than 1 wife should not be to satisfy lust, but for the welfare of the widows and the orphans of the wars.

    Now, why a man could have even 4 wives? Even that is unjust, right?
    Wrong. Here is why.

    In those times, wars were frequent everywhere and due to more men dying at younger age (in wars), the sex ratio was very unbalanced. If 1 guy had married one girl, then many girls would remain single and they would live a life without any financial security and without any good that comes from marriage.

    Islam also believes in equal rights for the wife. We have that law in US here just recently but that law is true in Islam from hundreds of years.

    There is a very famous saying. "Serve the mother because heaven lies below her feet". It does not mean literally, but what is interpreted of it is.. if you take care of your parents well, then heaven gates are open for you.

    I completely understand that it takes lot of patience to read many articles and gain knowledge about islam and muslims and about any other religion, but if you have a need to express that opinion publicily and that opinion is negative in nature, then it would be great if you could gather some information and facts so you can justiry your opinion.
     
    syed123, Oct 20, 2006 IP
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  9. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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  10. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #230
    Are you saying that muslims are 99% women? I figured it'd be 50/50 or very close, at least.
     
    lorien1973, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  11. syed123

    syed123 Well-Known Member

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    #231

    No I am not saying that. How will muslim population come to this point without women? Forget about 1%, I think muslims would be exitinct if that statement was true.
     
    syed123, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  12. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #232
    Given no women, obviously it would. Reproduction is rather difficult without the girls.
     
    lorien1973, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  13. syed123

    syed123 Well-Known Member

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    #233
    See, this is where the problem arises. We tend to confuse and get a wrong idea about a religion because few of peoples acts. The way some people act does not mean thats what the religion preaches.

    I think your statement is a perfect example of that. "Honor Killing" has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with culture and the individual who committed that crime. Islam is clear on its prohibition of sexual relationships outside of marriage but it does not allow anyone to "kill for honor".

    In fact, for any illicit relationship to be proven, there is a need of four witnesses. "any accusation of illicit sexual behavior must have been seen by four witnesses; and they must have been witness to the act of sexual intercourse itself". http://www.mwlusa.org/publications/positionpapers/hk.html

    It's not just Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs or even foreigners, who kill female or male relatives because of relations they do not approve. It exists in western socities but have reduced dramatically during recent years.

    -------------
    Also related to this is blood feuds is the BBC report that two Albanians got themselves smuggled into the UK just to kill someone who had killed one of their brothers. These people were all Christians, by the way.

    Is Christianity to be blamed? NO.
    -------------

    Thousands of women were labeled as "witches" and accused of witchcraft and they were executed in Europe. Many killed in America itself. Obviously, the European and American society were compromised of Christians. Can we blame Christianity of those unfortunate killings? NO.

    "Individuals within certain Chinese, Japanese and other (South) East Asian cultures, legally sanctioned the killing of unfaithful wives by their husbands to protect family honor. In some (past and present) South Asian and/or Hindu cultures, new wives are at times murdered by their husbands because of failed dowry demands. The killings are sometimes carried out by burning the victims to death through "accidental" kitchen fires."


    Source: Wikipedia.org [Article "Honor Killing"]

    "Even in the United States, until recent times, wife-killings by husbands (especially against adulterous wives - whether or not they were premeditated) were not considered a crime in some jurisdictions"

    Source: Wikipedia.org [Article "Honor Killing"]

    In US, until recently, honor killing was not against the law.

    ---

    I dont think it would be correct to say that Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism is wrong just because some illiterate families from some villages committed a honor killing.
     
    syed123, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  14. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #234
    I only picked out a few. I could certainly go on and on and on. But the point isn't about whether "all" do it. All is not a common denominator before recognizing a problem. The problem is a serious problem in the UK, where Sam is from. Couple that with a book written by a muslim on how to beat their wife and the undeniable truth that women in general are sub-classed citizens (at most) in islam, it's safe to see where Sam derived her opinions from. You required research to make such claims. I submitted research where one can easily derive such.

    I don't personally buy into the "tiny minority" theories as the be all/end all excuse for islam. It's too convenient of an excuse.
     
    GTech, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  15. Arnie

    Arnie Well-Known Member

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    #235
    A UN report from the year 2000
    Honor killings have dramitcally increased since then.
    Honor killings in Europe are mostly commited by South Asians.

    In 2000, the United Nations estimated that around 5,000 girls and women in at least 14 countries, among them Pakistan, Jordan and Turkey, were killed yearly because their families felt they brought dishonor on them.
     
    Arnie, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  16. syed123

    syed123 Well-Known Member

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    #236
    Do you think my examples of similar acts by other religions was complete? What about Adolf Hitler (a Christian) and thousands, if not millions of his followers who supported mass killings of Jews? What about Jews killing Jesus? What about the Sati system in Indian culture where widows are burnt alive? Wheren't they Christians who chained and transported hundreds of thousands of African people and kept them as slaves.. until only recently?
    If you see it this way, then all religions are incorrect. Lets open our minds and accept the fact that WE, as people are only to blame ourselves for these atrocities and stop blaming the religion. Christianity, Islam or any religion, is not at fault - its the ignorant us who is.


    So you also consider Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism and all other religions to be at fault because ALL other religions have "tiny minorities" that have committed acts which ashamed the rest of their community. Do you?
     
    syed123, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  17. Arnie

    Arnie Well-Known Member

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    #237
    Although most honour crimes occur in Muslim societies, Islam does not sanction such killings. Sheikh Atiyyah Saqr, former head of the al-Azhar University in Amman told IRIN it was a cultural practice that falsely interprets religion to allow murder to be justified.

    Article 340 of the Jordanian Penal Code states that "he who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives committing adultery with another, and he kills, wounds or injures one or both of them, is exempt from any penalty".

    In September 2003, parliament went into session with the amended Article 340 on its agenda for ratification. The upper house twice approved the proposals, which were again rejected by the lower house. To date, amendments to Articles 340 and 98 remain pending.
     
    Arnie, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  18. Arnie

    Arnie Well-Known Member

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    #238
    The articles regarding honour killing in the penal codes of the Middle Eastern countries conform to or are influenced by the Islamic Shari'a Law. These articles are found in the penal codes of majority of Arab and Middle Eastern countries. Article 562 in Lebanon (abolished in February 1999), Article 340 in Jordan, Article 548 in Syria, Article 153 in Kuwait, Article 237 in Egypt, Article 309 in Iraq, Article 334 in the United Arab Emirate, Article 70 in Bahrain, Article 179 in Iran before 1979, Articles 418-424 in Morocco, and Article 252 in Oman. Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Sudan, Pakistan and Qatar apply the Islamic Shari'a law.
     
    Arnie, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  19. Arnie

    Arnie Well-Known Member

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    #239
    "A man who surprises his wife, daughter or sister practicing adultery or illicit intercourse and kills or harms on of two partners without premeditation, benefits from the legitimate excuse, that relieves him of the burden of murder."

    Charges of adultery are almost exclusively against women. Laws regarding honour killing provide that men accused of these killings are not to be prosecuted for murder but for 'crimes of honour' which carry lenient sentences, averaging three months to one year. The legal authorities put women in jail instead of imprisoning and punishing the murderers.

    Judges and police officers have been known to side with the "wronged" man. Judges usually look for justifiable excuses to exonerate the killers. It is ironic that society denies women certain rights under the pretext that they are emotional beings and may become irrational when under pressure, while resorting to the "emotion argument' as an excuse for men's behavior in 'honour crimes'. A man is not accused of adultery unless the act occurs in the marital home, and if there is proof of adultery, the punishment must not exceed six months imprisonment.

    WHAT KIND OF RESPECTING WOMEN IS THIS???
     
    Arnie, Oct 20, 2006 IP
  20. syed123

    syed123 Well-Known Member

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    #240

    It would be great if you could give some citations/sources as to where exactly you copy paste from. I mean no offense but if I copy paste a bunch of material from the net, how would you know if I just typed it myself or copied it from some not so credible and biased website? If you cite sources, I could then analyze and see if that source is even credible enough.

    I am sure you must have heard of Christian Science Monitor website CSMonitor.com (Alexa Rank: 3,500). You might want to check out their articles - http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0302/p15s01-wome.html

    "Despite their occurrence in Jordan and other Muslim nations, honor killings are a pre-Islamic, tribal custom, condoned neither by Islam nor by any other major world religion, analysts say."
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0302/p15s01-wome.html

    "The number of honor crimes throughout the world is virtually impossible to measure, although the United Nations Population Fund has estimated that there are some 5,000 a year. Brazil, Ecuador, Italy, Sweden, and Britain have all reported such crimes."
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0302/p15s01-wome.html

    "Of course, in Islam sexual relationship outside marriage is a crime but this is not the way to punish for the crime. ‘Honor killing’ is nothing but madness and barbarism. It is a social disease. " - The Saudi Gazette

    Also, like you mentioned, I complete agree that Jordon does have a problem with honor killings. There is no doubt to that but there are many more Muslim nations to the world than just 2-3 countries.

    Indonesia is the most populated Muslim nation and there is no case of honory killing there.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="honor+killing+in+indonesia"&meta=

    Didn't come to your notice I guess.. and I really dont blame you for that.

    I have learned from many people.. let me quote on of the Indonesian bloggers: "I lived in Indonesia for 19 years. Never heard or read a single case of honor killing. Indeed there are Islamic fundamentalists in Indonesia, but honor killings are more about conservative cultures than the religion. There is no mentioning about honor killing in the Quran btw." I can also confirm that there is no mention of honary killing in Quran. Again, Indonesia is worlds most populated Muslim country and has more Muslims than Muslims in Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan and Turkey combined.

    It is very common for people to think that culture and religion is same although it is not. You would not believe how much cultural similarities Hindus and Muslims have in India.. although the religion is completely different.

    The thing is you only see what extremists do on the TV. Why would CNN put an average peace loving Muslim guy who is just content with his life and has not even thought of killing a rat! My only question is that why dont you take example from majority of followers instead of sticking on to extremists and blaming the religion for their ignorant and sickening acts?
     
    syed123, Oct 21, 2006 IP
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