I've been on these forums debating religion before. Sometimes I've been hurtful and judgmental about other people's faith, but I think it was because I was confused, and now I finally understand why I wasn't able to really understand love and acceptance before. It's all here in Christian Universalism. I started seeing this myself, then came across this theology (method of interpreting the scriptures) while I was researching and it all clicked. The main thing is that our concept of Heaven and Eternal Hell are completely wrong and are based on pagan ideas that were implemented by the Roman Empire so they could control those unruly Christians through fear of eternal torment in hell if they were bad, but this theology was not even considered by the early Christians before they were overtaken by the Roman Catholic Church, and it goes directly against the concept of Christ to assume that some unlucky people are tormented for all eternity by the Same "loving" God who died so we wouldn't have to! Folks, if you carefully translate the Bible, there is no Eternal Hell, and when a person dies they don't go to "hell" or "heaven", but they "sleep" (not sure what that means yet) and in the very end, God will become "All in All", essentially bringing everyone, including Satan, into Himself. So rather then going to Heaven for all eternity, it sounds more like the entire world will be brought back into God and "become" Him. Sounds crazy, or amazing, depending on you viewpoint, but when you look into it, it's really there especially in the Greek and Hebrew texts. It's harder to see in English translations of the Bible, but still possible if you keep the context of Christ in mind and have a basic concept of love in your heart. The beauty of it is that it doesn't matter if you believe or not, unless you want to believe, then it will be a source of comfort to you if you're faced with death. The main thing to remember, and what helped bring me to this discovery, is that there is one giant difference between true Christianity and any other religions (and at it's core Christianity isn't even a religion), and that is: All other Religions: What we must do to be saved Christianity: What God did to save us I hope this bring some peace and love to at least one person, and if you are at all curious just do a quick search, or also http://www.christianuniversalist.org is a great resource IMO. Peace all I'll let these lyrics lead me out (I can finally truly enjoy them)... Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the peopleLiving life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one
From a theological point of view, I would respectfully disagree with you. Out of curiousity, what scriptures are you viewing that give you the concept that universalism is true? The bible clearly indicates hell to be eternal, at the same time, he doesn't want to have to send anyone there. God is love, but he is also just. I do, however, agree with you on the comment that the difference between Christians and other religions is that we acknowledge the idea that we are not good enough to make it to heaven based on our own works (no one is). It required divine intervention for us to be able to make it there. At the same time, there is a clear cut line on who will be saved and who will not be. Most scriptures I have seen that are used for universalism are referenced to the end times when "all knee's show bow and every tongue confess". This doesn't mean that those people will be saved.
I was very skeptical too because I grew up in a traditional Christian home. I think some of the confusion has to do with us not being able to conceptually separate being "saved" on earth from being saved from punishment in the afterlife. Here's a page with so many points that it left me feeling like an idiot for not seeing all of this in the Bible before: http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hell_test.html and here's a very small excerpt of key points if you don't have time to read through it all: • If Hell was real and a place of no escape, why did the early church teach Jesus went to Hell (Hades), preached to them and led captivity captive? (Eph. 4:8,9; Psalm 68:18; 1 Peter 3:18-20) • If Hell was real and the grave settled the matter forever, why did the early Christians offer up prayers for the dead? (Ref. # 1) • If Hell was real, why did the first comparatively complete systematic statement of Christian doctrine ever given to the world by Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 180, contain the tenet of universal salvation? (Ref. #1) • If Hell is real, why is it not mentioned in most leading English Bible translations until Matthew? (Most Bible translations now acknowledge Sheol should NOT ever be translated Hell as the King James Bible incorrectly did.) • If Hell was real, and if Paul was commissioned by God to preach the gospel to the nations, why did Paul not mention Hell even once except to declare victory over it? (1 Cor. 15:55, the word death in this passage is the word "Hades" which some translations of the Bible also translate Hell.) • If Hell was real and easy to define and find in the Bible, why did the translators of the original 1611 King James Bible find it so difficult to define Hades? They put Hell in the text at Rev. 20:13 and "Or, grave" in the margins while putting "grave" in the text and "Or, Hell" in the margins in 1 Cor. 15:55? Seems they couldn't make up their minds whether Hades meant Hell or grave. (Recent editions have removed the marginal readings thus avoiding the embarrassment.) • If Hades is Hell and there is no escape from it, why is it emptied and cast into the Lake of Fire along with death. (Rev. 20:14) • If the Lake of Fire is actually a place of everlasting burnings, why isn't it defined as such? The Bible calls it the "second death," that is, the death of the first death. One would think that the death of death would be LIFE, which is a good thing! (Rev. 20:14) Even in mathematics two negatives make a positive. • If Hell is real and God's wrath abides upon billions of human beings FOREVER, some being your relatives and friends (or it could be you), doesn't that violate the Scripture which says His anger WILL come to an end? (Isaiah 57:16-18) • If Hell was real and you went there, would you consider that good? (Psalm 145:9 says all will praise Him.) • If Hell was real and you were consigned to it, would you praise Him for sending you there? (Psalm 145:10)
In my opinion, as a non-christian, the sleep refers to a state like many mystics describe in meditation, as in a vivid world of dreaming, an other world but not exactly an afterlife since it is accessable without death, although many mystical experiences often do involve a near death experience or the illusion of one. This all seems to smell of reincarnation anyway. Think of God as the source continually absorbing the gross materials and purifying them into pure matter and then releasing that pure matter back into circulation. Just replace matter with "spirit" or "soul" or white light or whatever your dogma allows. I am a firm believer that anything relating to actions of God are eternal themselves, meaning if God actually did something once it is forever being done. This is all philosophy though really. When it all comes down to it spiritual gnosis is an individual affair and what might be true for some will never be true for all.
That's a pretty interesting outlook, and some of it makes sense to me on a level I can't really explain rationally, so like you say "what might be true for some will never be true for all.", except I wouldn't say "never" but I can admit that I don't know anything other then what I've been taught and/or experienced. I could be wrong. (Nice to be able to admit that as a Christian and not get struck down by lightning though)
SolutionX, you are closer to unraveling the simplicities and complexities of life than most any other religious scholar. There's a lot of blind and ignorant Christians these days, but I reckon you aren't one of them.
Thanks nate, I'm honored that you think that. I was gonna try to sound all humble, but screw it, I like a good ego trip. Seriously though, it's fairly easy when all I have to do is sort through a bunch of archived data. A lot of these people throughout history gave up their lives (or livelihood) in order to keep the truth out there. I'm just starting to understand what would make them able to do that without fear though. Anyway, best compliment ever. Made my day bro.