How's PayPal in bed?

Discussion in 'PayPal' started by dotbeyond.com, May 31, 2007.

?

what should i buy next?

Poll closed Jul 30, 2007.
  1. KY

    50.0%
  2. a gun

    50.0%
  1. #1
    Here is the actual letter that i sent a minute ago to paypal customer service. My comments in RED were not part of my reply to paypal


    Hi once again!
    Here is information you requested:

    1. I COULDN'T LOGIN TO MY ACCOUNT BECAUSE OF THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE.
    We regret to inform you that this account has been locked. Please contact our Account Review Department at .
    Message 3018

    2 I SENT MY INITIAL REQUEST :"
    Hello,
    I tried to log in to my account XXXX@XXXXXcom and failed:
    We regret to inform you that this account has been locked. Please contact our Account Review Department at .
    Message 3018
    1. Paypal illegally allowed charge back when i had "charge back protection" (
    customer charged back around $3K 3 months after initial transaction. When it happened i had $10 on my Paypal, and less than $1k on my checking account. this transaction automatically locked both accounts leaving me without possibility to accept electronic payments, or deposit checks. I am self-employed, web-related)
    2. The dispute was resolved 40 days later against me. 2.5 months later i faxed the copy of small claims court to PayPal, and my money were returned to my account
    At this moment
    my checking account was completely closed, because of all negative balance/overcharge fees that i couldn't pay (because i couldn't earn)
    for 2 days only to irreversibly back-charged again
    Paypal had court ruling that my customer was a$$hole, and also served as a proof that Paypal's dispute resolution was wrong. Paypal allowed this charge-back to go through once again.
    3. CA Small Claims Court ruling apparently was not a good proof for you that it was Paypal's mistake to resolving this case against me

    What else can i do? what did i do wrong, that i have to go through all this crap??
    Sincerely,
    Dmitri Ivanov
    Studio DotBeyond.com
    605 Webster St | San Francisco | CA 94117
    "

    3. I RECEIVED REPLY FROM PAYPAL : "From researching your account history, I can see that your issue has been resolved"
    Btw it's been 6 month since chargeback, I cannot collect money from my customer because i cannot find him. only recently Paypal unblocked my account with negative $2000, which i started paying back.

    4. I THOUGHT: HOW EXCITING & TRIED TO LOGIN AGAIN AND FAILED. EXACTLY THE SAME MESSAGE SURPRISED ME ONCE AGAIN.
    We regret to inform you that this account has been locked. Please contact our Account Review Department at .
    Message 3018


    5.. SO I ASKED ONCE AGAIN:
    "How it was resolved? i still cannot log in. the same messages is still there"

    6. PAYPAL REPLIED:
    "Upon reviewing the information that you have submitted we are unable to determine what this question pertains to."

    I HOPE THIS FORMAL INFORMATIVE REVIEW OF OUR CORRESPONDENCE WILL HELP TO RESOLVE MY PROBLEM.

    HERE IS MY INFORMAL REVIEW + NEW QUESTION:
    1. Paypal decided to f.ck with my money;
    2. Then Paypal decided to f.ck with my mind;
    3. ...

    What's next (#3)? The fact that i live in SF is just coincidence, so don't make any assumptions.

    Sincerely,
    Dmitri Ivanov



     
    dotbeyond.com, May 31, 2007 IP
  2. assassin34

    assassin34 Peon

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    #2
    Is your account verified.With whom did you have a transaction last.Try to explain to paypal the situation again.I hope that they will understand
     
    assassin34, May 31, 2007 IP
  3. Stephen Mahnken

    Stephen Mahnken Peon

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    #3
    wow, that is not cool is everything okay now?????
     
    Stephen Mahnken, May 31, 2007 IP
  4. James12513

    James12513 Well-Known Member

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    #4
    The best thing to do is to phone them up, they should resolve it then and there.
     
    James12513, May 31, 2007 IP
  5. dotbeyond.com

    dotbeyond.com Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Paypal's reply :

    Dear Dmitri Ivanov,
    
    Thank you for contacting PayPal. We regret the delay in responding to 
    your service request.
    
    [B] We appreciate your renewed interest in PayPal and our services.[/B]
    
    Your PayPal account has been locked from further use due to the fact it has 
    maintained a negative balance of -$1,758.30 USD for an extended amount 
    of time. As a result, you have received an email notification from 
    PayPal regarding the negative balance of your account. It is also 
    possible you may have been contacted by our [B]collection agency, IC 
    System.[/B] Please follow the proper instructions below to pay off your 
    negative balance. The necessary steps for completion will be dependent 
    upon whether or not you were contacted by IC System. 
    
    If you received an email from PayPal only, please send a check, 
    cashier's check or money order to: 
    
    PayPal, Inc. 
    Attn: Accounting 
    P.O. Box 45950 
    Omaha, NE 68145 
    
    Please note the email address of the account to be paid.
    
    Personal checks are only accepted in U.S. Dollars only. We will accept 
    cashiers checks or money orders in U.S. Dollars, Pounds Sterling, Euros,
    and Australian Dollars.
    
    Accounts paid by personal check have to remain in good status for 30 
    days before the account can be reviewed. We are unable to accept credit 
    card payments to resolve this negative balance.
    
    If you received a letter or phone call from IC System, please use the 
    contact information below for more information:
    
    IC System contact information:
    
    Toll Free Customer Service Number: 1-888-241-8960 
    Mailing address: 
    
    ICS Financial System, Inc 
    P.O. Box 64444 
    St. Paul, MN 
    55164-0444 
    
    If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
    
    Sincerely,
    Erin
    PayPal Account Review Department
    PayPal, an eBay Company
    
    Code (markup):

    Aftermath:
    Completed job and didn't get paid Loss: $5,000
    Loss of checking account (thanks Paypal) Loss: $900
    loss Paypal account Loss: $1,758.30
    Paying Business Account for 8 years Loss: ????
    I paid Paypal Business Account fee to have "charge back" protection
    Disputes Loss: $350
    (I had 5-6 other disputes for amounts $40- $150 due stolen credit cards, hijacked accounts etc. ALL RESOLVED AGAINST ME)
    SF Small Claim Court Loss: $75
    (written as a loss because Court's ruling is good for nothing. My customer doesn't honor it, Paypal doesn't honor it)
    Lawyer's fee Loss: $75
    (written as a loss because Paypal did as good evidence, yet it helped to win the case)
    Collection from my bank priceless
    Collection from paypal priceless

    TOTAL : - $8,158 30 for doing my job right
    - 2 collections on my back
    - no way to accept payments because i have no checking, no merchant gateway
    - cannot re-apply to any other services because of collection


    I am just wondering: where did i go wrong, besides choosing some asshole as customer?
     
    dotbeyond.com, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  6. dotbeyond.com

    dotbeyond.com Well-Known Member

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    #6
    The dispute was resolved to my favor and all money were returned in FULL.

    I didn't even know that there is such thing as "chargeback settlement fee"

    "The chargeback settlement fee covers the cost of processing chargebacks in cases where the buyer's card issuer has determined that the seller is liable. The fee is not assessed when a transaction meets the terms of the Seller Protection Policy. "

    Since I did receive full amount , this means that i did have chargeback protection.

    Paypal already verified that
    transaction met the terms of the Seller Protection Policy, and still allowed it.


     
    dotbeyond.com, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  7. inworx

    inworx Peon

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    #7
    Just you did wrong here.

    Dont, NEVER EVER use PayPal for transactions more than $0.5k

    Chargeback protection(business accounts) = benefits to buyers.
     
    inworx, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  8. login

    login Notable Member

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    #8
    Did you ever call them ?
     
    login, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  9. dotbeyond.com

    dotbeyond.com Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Yes i did. 35 min on hold. 10 min conversation. they hang up on me

    All my questions were answered with really similar answers

    The similarity was that all of them contained "His bank" , or " that bank"
    even questions like "How paypal protected my interests?"
     
    dotbeyond.com, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  10. dotbeyond.com

    dotbeyond.com Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Yes i did. 35 min on hold. 10 min conversation. they hang up on me

    All my questions were answered with really similar answers

    The similarity was that all of them contained "His bank" , or " that bank"
    even questions like "How paypal protected my interests?"
     
    dotbeyond.com, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  11. DevilHellz

    DevilHellz Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Hate to hear that happened to you mate.

    Wish you best of luck - keep updating.
     
    DevilHellz, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  12. J0ker

    J0ker Peon

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    #12
    That is terrible, and you never got any of your money back in the end? I really hate having to trust paypal with my money, not fun at all.
     
    J0ker, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  13. Jscott

    Jscott Peon

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    #13
    Ugh, really sorry to hear about that. This is far from the first Paypal horror story I've heard. Unfortunately, they have a bit of a monopoly right now it seems for the cheap, easy rout.
     
    Jscott, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  14. elleve

    elleve Well-Known Member

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    #14
    paypal seems to cause alot of people huge nightmares.

    I am happy to say I haven't been fked over by them yet.
     
    elleve, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  15. dotbeyond.com

    dotbeyond.com Well-Known Member

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    #15

    Dude, what are you talking about? Google Checkout is free now
     
    dotbeyond.com, Jun 2, 2007 IP
  16. J0ker

    J0ker Peon

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    #16
    Haha, I think Google is the one with the monopoly
     
    J0ker, Jun 3, 2007 IP
  17. Stroh

    Stroh Notable Member

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    #17
    That really sucks! Paypal should never have a chargeback thing unless you have a valid reason to. The fact that they did a negative withdraw without bouncing your account is wrong... They should make it so that when it goes beyond they can't get it and they charge the person doing the chargeback a fee JUST like REAL Banks do.
     
    Stroh, Jun 3, 2007 IP
  18. tobycoke

    tobycoke Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Oh man I feel for you.
    Did the buyer use a credit card? I believe any chargeback protection would only apply if the buyer paid from his PayPal funds - not from a credit card. By their terms with Visa/Master Card etc.. PayPal cannot refuse a chargeback and must go thru the credit card company's charge back resolution process. They freeze the funds and you have a chance to present your side. This process can take weeks to resolve. Was it for physical goods or digital goods?

    What happened in small claims court? Was it held in the same city/state as the buyer? If you had a default judgment because the buyer did not or could not attend then PayPal may not take this as evidence that you are right.
     
    tobycoke, Jun 3, 2007 IP
  19. chem

    chem Active Member

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    #19
    Sorry

    Paypal sucks, I got screwed by them also and they will NOT help you one bit.

    Horrible company. Pisses me off that is the only online payment people in the United States use.

    Hope you work everything out,
    Aaron
     
    chem, Jun 4, 2007 IP
  20. dotbeyond.com

    dotbeyond.com Well-Known Member

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    #20
    Nothing is OK. They ignore me, so it's time to start the war.

    We worked on about 150 projects involving paypal. Most of my customers have no idea what they are doing , so they trust me . Free upgrade to google checkout and they will save on fees for 6 months. Paypal will loose 100s of merchants.

    They just forgot where they came from.
    [​IMG]

    ..... Coming soon in theaters near you. Stay tuned.
     
    dotbeyond.com, Jun 6, 2007 IP