1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

How to write better?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by xprtwalk, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. xenyo

    xenyo Peon

    Messages:
    1,648
    Likes Received:
    54
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #101
    Again DyKraven learn to understand the page you are making reference to.
    SEMrush
    lol, I certainly do not want your services for my article directory but thank you for asking.

    I have joined the forum longer but havent been on DP for ages , the reason why alot of the older DP members find your nonsense onjectable is because they are more loyal to this community. They know what you are trying as its been done many times before by people more talented, just rarely so shamelessly.

    I do not need to e-spy up to discredit others to improve my credibility . doing so will waste my time that I would rather spend on something more worthwhile ...... My credibility on DP serves me no purpose ....

    originally, I just wanted to correct your post so newer writers and marketers would not get misled... but now this is getting interesting
     
    xenyo, Jul 6, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    65
    #102
    When like me you have a degree in that area, you are allowed to make that statement. If you don't, well use your imagination.

    If that statement is so unimportant, why post it?

    Sure, you have got a crystal ball, that will allow you to make statements like
    But when you are right, you are right, DY has very shamelessly tried to help people, and *Gasp* did not require any payment. Sheesh, lets bring out the tar and feathers! In fact you are stabbing in the dark, hoping to poke a sore spot.

    Awesome, where can I sign up for them to teach me to improve my skills dramatically? Oh wait, they offer nothing, nada, zip, zilch! They are loyal in protecting what's left of their business (Not all members but the "loyal" ones we see nor hear, nor contribute anything useful then a snare and a whole boatload of negativity.).
    If that is your loyal following you can have it, and keep it. In fact keep it miles away from me, because it disgusts me!

    I think that will be about as angry as I will allow you to get me, since your opinion actually does not matter, as it does not improve my skills, ads nothing to the discussion and teaches nothing.

    Have a nice day!
     
    Kraven2, Jul 6, 2010 IP
  3. xenyo

    xenyo Peon

    Messages:
    1,648
    Likes Received:
    54
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #103
    Lol thanks Perry, thought all of DP have gone mad from the twilight zone like discussions recently in the copywriting section.

    On one hand it sorta bugs me but theres a side of me that feels sorry for him... but he'll learn sooner or later I suppose...


    Anyways, apologies to Xprtwalk for allowing the DY factor to derail your post ...lets not continue this any further here.
     
    xenyo, Jul 6, 2010 IP
  4. pkainulainen

    pkainulainen Greenhorn

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    #104
    Reading the last pages of this thread made me wonder, if I should start a new thread or simply answer to this thread. Since I hate duplicate threads, I decided to try my luck here. I know that most of the people reading the Copywriting forum are aiming for a career as a copywriter. I am not aiming for that.

    However, I would like to have a few tips, how I could improve my writing skills. I have tried using the Google, but it is kind of hard to know, which resources are good and which are not. I would be grateful, if someone could point me in a right direction. If someone could recommend a good book or a website, which could be helpful for a total newbie, I would be grateful.
     
    pkainulainen, Jul 7, 2010 IP
  5. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

    Messages:
    3,801
    Likes Received:
    94
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #105
    pkainulainen,

    I posted something like the following earlier, but I'll expand on it.



    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=writing

    Browse through the selection.

    I would start with this: http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Tools...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278554095&sr=8-3

    Then look at the section, Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought for more books to study.

    I would say, to buy, maybe, a half a dozen or so books to get yourself up to par.

    Buy these books from your local bookstore. That way if any of them are crap, you can quickly get your money back.

    Buy a box of paperclips and a highlighter, and get to studying!

    But, leaf through each book first to see if it is worth it. You can't return a book with markings in it.

    The more you write, the better you become, so I would also suggest creating a blog-type page just for yourself to use for a personal diary, of sorts.

    Try to be an imaginative, creative writer when entering your submissions.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...fai=CL-8R6jM1TO7KDoLqzATojaX_CwAAAKoEBU_QK6Qh

    Getting quotes from famous writers on writing is also a great way to learn.

    You may have to do some digging, though.

    Also use keywords like the author's name, followed by words like, on being a good writer.

    Many offer words of wisdom for wanna-be writers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2010
    Perry Rose, Jul 7, 2010 IP
  6. gvannorman

    gvannorman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    8
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #106
    Perry's method will give you some insight on writing and what people expect. But, will that make you a good writer. In some sense it will, but what are you writing for? There is a huge difference in writing for the web then there is writing for lets say a magazine. Sure, you are still trying to keep the readers attention as with any writing. Just remember that if someone buys a magazine they found your article. But how are they going to find your article while it is sitting in a bunch of terms that the search engine has. I will tell you how. You need to be able to rank in the top 10 of Google. That will help take the luck out of the game. Sure there are some people who delve deep into the pages of a search listing but the majority click the first 3 listings. This is where you want to be. So you need to learn how to do that. PM me I will go more into this and hopefully steer you in the right direction.
     
    gvannorman, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  7. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

    Messages:
    3,801
    Likes Received:
    94
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #107
    The readers will find his articles like any other articles out there, by continuing to visit their favorite sites. Like this site, or SitePoint, or Askmen, or MensHealth, or....

    Just like reading their favorite magazines each and every month.

    As not to sound snotty, because you kept it civil...needless to say, the world does not revolve around search engines.

    And, landing high is a matter of luck. Just because one does the seo, does not guarantee anything.

    I'm being civil, but, as a professional here and not some noob who thinks he knows about seo, please, let's keep this real.
     
    Perry Rose, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  8. gvannorman

    gvannorman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    8
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #108
    Perry, I have nothing against you. I am not sure why you think that SEO does not matter. Maybe there is some logical reason why you believe this. I am not sure, nor am I going to try to change the way you think. I believe that you do have some knowledge when it comes to writing. But, can I ask you one question. Just one. Please do us all a favor and point us toward 1 single article that you have published in a magazine online or off. It does not matter, I will go buy it if I have to. Just so I can see your style of writing or actually believe what you are saying. Here is what I have proof of.

    I wrote this article yesterday on my blog.

    Personal Loans Online: Obtaining Cash Needed for Marketing

    Now click this Google Search

    Google

    Luck had nothing to do with it. Thank you. And just because you have been here longer does not mean you know everything there is to know about this profession or business. You may be very intelligent and knowledgeable. So, where is your proof that you have been published and know what your talking about.

    Thanks....balls in your court now!
     
    gvannorman, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  9. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

    Messages:
    3,801
    Likes Received:
    94
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #109
    I never said seo does not matter. It matters, but to a very small degree. I will say that it is near the bottom of the rung.

    You can have, say, an article in Reuters, and you can get an untold huge amount of readers, compared to organic traffic.

    That is, if one can even land high enough to be seen.

    And, hell, odds are that the traffic wouldn't be that great anyway.

    That's all I am saying.

    And the length of how long a poster has been here has nothing to do with it. There was a poster here a while back who had just signed up, and that guy knew his shit.

    Yes, you have a high-ranking article. And??? Let's see consistency, and under the most typed-in keywords. Is your site ranked high under the most typed-in keywords?

    I have nothing published in this area. If I did, so what? Would it matter? And I have seen published articles, books that were just crap.

    Goes both ways, right?

    Throughout the years, I have done my research, talked to webmasters of popular sites, talked to GENUINE seo analysts, and, yes, I have talked with Google a number of times.

    I do not nor have I ever claimed to be a know-it-all, but, God, man, most of this is just common sense. Too many do not have it.

    We are both taking this off track. You believe what you want, and we can agree to disagree, and let's get this back on the subject: How to write better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
    Perry Rose, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  10. gvannorman

    gvannorman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    8
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #110
    Thank you. Agreed. ****extends hand for a shake*****
     
    gvannorman, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  11. pkainulainen

    pkainulainen Greenhorn

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    #111
    @Perry Rose,

    Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately is kind of a PITA to get books, which are written in English, at Finland (You have to order them to your local bookstore and they very expensive). However, I decided to order the book you recommended and few other books about writing from Amazon. I have already started my own personal blog a few months ago, and constant writing seems to improve my writing skills as you suggested. Also, I found your tips concerning googling very useful.

    My goal at the moment is to improve my general writing skills, because I have to write a lot technical document at my daily work. On the other hand, I want also to learn how to write interesting articles to my blog. I think my second goal is the one, which means that I have to learn how to make my readers find my it.


    That is true. The only situation, which makes me crawl deeper in to the search results, is when I am looking something very specific technical information, which is not necessarily found on the first or second page of the search results (The first two pages are usually crowded with general information concerning the frameworks, which I am using at work). Anyway, I appreciate that you have got time help you and will PM you right away.
     
    pkainulainen, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  12. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    65
    #112
    Try usenet, about every book available in print can be downloaded from there in eBook form.
     
    Kraven2, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  13. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

    Messages:
    693
    Likes Received:
    19
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #113
    pkainulainen, what you are looking for is not found in books. I have probably 50 books obtained about writing I have obtained as part of a package over the last 50 years. If you love to read, read the classic books on self motivation and positive thinking which are in public domain in the gutenberg project library, they might have a translator right on the site to set it to your language. It is , I believe free, and will have more valuable information from people that actually practice what they preach. just Google: Gutenberg project, you will be amazed.

    The people know how to use the emotions to get the person to write, but they themselves can not properly write. I just finished on a form, you can ask the nice man with the red shirt, about it.

    It goes through step by step about emotions and structuring your article. What you must do to get your information read. As with everything the cost is free. I can also get you over to a blog by a skilled woman writer, who gives sound advice, for free.

    So quit wasting time try to be a hamburger writer, learn the right way to write from the beginning. ---------------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
    dyadvisor, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  14. pkainulainen

    pkainulainen Greenhorn

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    #114
    Yes, I know that reading books about something (no matter the subject) gives the person only the author's opinion about the subject. Also, I kind of tend to believe that the best way to learn something is simply start doing it, and try to catch as much as possible on the way.

    That was a good tip, and project Gutenberg seems indeed be an amazing place. I actually enjoy reading books in English also, because most of the great books about software development, which is my occupation at the moment, are in English. So, I kind of had get to used to it when I chose this career.

    I will ask definately ask him about this form. It sounds very interesting.

    Do you mean that this woman has got blog, which contains writing advice? If so, I would be interested to know more about this.

    This is not perhaps relevant to this topic anymore, but the two first result of a google search: Hamburger writer are a bit funny (at least to me). I had no idea that there is people, whose last name is hamburger...

    Anyway, thanks for your advice. I appreciate it.
     
    pkainulainen, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  15. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    65
    #115
    My old neighbor had Hamburger as last name(He was in construction though) :)

    As for books, they are a good start but the best advice you already gave yourself: Start a blog and start writing. Practice makes perfect, and this is no exception to that golden rule :)
     
    Kraven2, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  16. xenyo

    xenyo Peon

    Messages:
    1,648
    Likes Received:
    54
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #116
    xenyo, Jul 8, 2010 IP
  17. furca

    furca Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes Received:
    19
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    125
    #117
    Foreign writers constantly put periods at the end of sentences without a space after.Just like this.

    ^ It is easy to tell a foreign writer. Some also put spaces before commas, which is unnatural.
     
    furca, Jul 9, 2010 IP
  18. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    65
    #118
    Don't generalize please, because that's a BS statement that certainly doesn't go for all foreign writers.

    It's the same as saying all Americans can't write for shit, because they don't speak proper English.

    Some do, some don't.

    The end. :)
     
    Kraven2, Jul 10, 2010 IP
  19. inspiroHost

    inspiroHost Peon

    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #119
    Reading lots of books (fiction) will improve your writing.
     
    inspiroHost, Jul 10, 2010 IP
  20. furca

    furca Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes Received:
    19
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    125
    #120
    this post has been removed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2010
    furca, Jul 10, 2010 IP