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how to create Website Template in Photoshop..??

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by j.1819, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #61
    You really need to understand how this works. No, googling that will NOT give me a lot of great stuff. Mostly, it gives me discussions / blog posts about whether or not we should use Photoshop or not. What I'm asking for is a page YOU think is great. And that fullfills the requirements put forth in this thread. That shouldn't be hard? It's basically "load the page, copy the link, paste the link in a reply" - or even easier, if you know the link by heart, just type it into a reply. Couldn't be simpler - yet you're still refusing to show us one of these pages you claim there are hundreds off out there. Note, it also has to be obvious this is a photoshop-based site - as several have stated before, making a mock-up in Photoshop doesn't mean most of it can't be made using other means - like plain HTML and CSS - hence, there needs to be images needed for the design to "pop" / work (which in and of itself is kind of a fail, but we'll let that one slide). Telling people to "just google it" when they're looking for subjective information is a bit moot - it doesn't work. You claim something, then it is your task to prove your claim. Most of the opposing council in this thread isn't claiming things - we're mostly just telling you what good coding practices are, what WCAG is and how to use it, and which usual failing PSD-designs on the web encounter. Because you don't agree, it's up to you to find an example of something not possible via plain code which works well for all users. As you've stated several times, it should be easy - so why haven't you just posted a link?
    SEMrush
     
    PoPSiCLe, Jun 20, 2015 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Adam_UK

    Adam_UK Member

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    #62
    I'm just here to bash WordPress, however the conversation has yet to mature to this delightful state. So instead, I thought I'd add constructively to the debate by mentioning something I don't believe has been touch upon yet.

    Images add to the weight of the site. They increase bandwidth. Bandwidth costs money. I (as well as some others) actively deactivate images on my mobile devices for this reason: Why pay more to visit your site? As a result, a website relying on pretty pictures to convey it's content doesn't show up for me. Their aesthetics become a vanity... pointless...

    Instead, you should be relying on the text to carry the site's content. Images are there to add to or emphasis the content. Not detract from or hide it. This is where any argument supporting using PSD templates to build sites is lost. It can become a fool's errand.
     
    Adam_UK, Jun 20, 2015 IP
  3. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #63
    While I don't understand the whole "disabling images to save bandwidth"-argument (who pays for data nowadays?), I do understand that some people still do turn off images - hence, images (especially design-images) should only be a bonus - images for key design elements, like a menu should never, ever be used, unless the menu can work just as well without. Hence, I do agree with the statement that a website that leans solely on images / PSD-design to deliver whatever content it has, probably does something stupid.
     
    PoPSiCLe, Jun 20, 2015 IP
  4. nebr

    nebr Member

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    #64
    you can find good tutorials at youtube ..
     
    nebr, Jun 20, 2015 IP
  5. Matthew Sayle

    Matthew Sayle Prominent Member

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    #65
    My provider only gives me so much data as '4G' and when I go over that, I am kicked down to '3G'.

    I don't usually come close, unless my wife is out of town ;)
     
    Matthew Sayle, Jun 20, 2015 IP
  6. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #66
    Anybody on mobile past a certain point, two thirds of Canada, large swaths of Australia, New Zealand and the United States...

    Not everyone lives in the magical fantasy-land of everyone having 45mpbs unmetered fiber.

    You also have the people sharing connections; just how good is your home connect if pooky and snuggins are both watching Hulu or Netflix in their rooms while you are browsing? How useful is that fiber connect at work when you have 60 employees sharing it? How's that free wireless at Mcdonalds working for you during lunch? Do you torrent?

    It's VERY easy to have a good connection quickly choked out -- then imagine places that don't HAVE good connections.

    For about 15 years I've been hearing the LAME EXCUSE "Oh everyone will soon have high speed" and it has yet to materialize in a meaningful manner. Simple fact is many places are unwilling to pay for the infrastructure, we ARE steamrolling towards a bandwidth crunch, and there will ALWAYS be a new less powerful lower cost device to put a lot of those EXCUSES to the test.

    http://www.cnet.com/news/bandwidth-crunch-has-consumer-implications/

    http://www.computerworld.com/articl...s-bandwidth--are-we-running-out-of-room-.html

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...irst-bitter-dose-of-metered-internet-billing/

    http://www.maximumpc.com/how-bad-do-we-really-have-it-bandwidth-caps-around-the-world/

    http://arstechnica.com/business/201...-for-all-customers-in-5-years-could-be-500gb/

    ... and signs are it's going to get worse LONG before it gets better.

    It's a good chunk of why images off, scripting off, plugins off, even CSS off graceful degradation are important. It's at least half of why image heavy scripting heavy poorly coded sites are rubbish.

    The other side being hosting costs -- how many cheap hosting plans have data caps? Hence why I often call many of the artsy graphics heavy layouts "money pits" that typically cost more to host than they generate revenue. I've seen WAY too many small businesses outright scammed in this way the past decade and a half.

    But of course ALL of this means nothing to the jackasses who see nothing wrong with homepages measuring multiple megabytes in five to ten dozen separate files just to deliver a dozen content images and less than 10k of plaintext just for their art fayhelah BS and scripttardery that users don't actually like if they're going to visit the site more than once!

    As usability studies have REPEATEDLY shown the past twenty years... but sure, go ahead and ignore all that.
     
    deathshadow, Jun 20, 2015 IP
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  7. Adam_UK

    Adam_UK Member

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    #67
    Since Orange Mobile were unable (Or perhaps too apathetic) to sort out a security issue with my original mobile contract. I stepped down to a pay-as-you-go service. I have an allotment of 100Mb/month. They start charging me after this. I therefore save bandwidth on my phone, while away from wifi access, by disabling photos amongst other things. This of course is not a common situation, but there are others like myself.

    Since other more relevant issued had already been mentioned, I'd thought I'd add one (Albeit less prevalent) which I experience.


    You raise a very good point here. The wifi router I use now struggles, where as before it didn't. The reason seems to be: A lot more wireless devices are connecting or attempting to connect through it at the same time. Every new appliance/device (Alarms, heating-boiler, lighting etc...) seems to have an accompanying app for you to configure it via a server at 'head office'. All requiring an internet connection. Add that to the increasing streaming of audio and video at the same time and it seems the internet cables, until they are upgraded, are congested with these ever increasing bandwidth sponge devices. And it seems more of a constant congestion, rather than a one time 'download a large file' type of thing.

    I'm increasingly finding that I have to refresh the webpage I am view, because certain elements haven't loaded. But that's partly due to the common place 'large-gut' webpages suffer from now. As sort of website obesity epidemic has happened.
     
    Adam_UK, Jun 24, 2015 IP
  8. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #68
    The problem, as mentioned, with routers getting "clogged" has mostly to do with poor quality network controllers on the router. Most personal routers (and quite a few commercial ones too) from a few years ago doesn't handle multiple devices well. Given that a common household nowadays probably have 10 or more wireless devices, old tech with a, b or g-type WiFi doesn't support multiband, nor does it support i/o bundling (a WiFi router of this type only works one direction at the time, hence no concurrent upload/download). This, of course, lends to slow speeds, loss of data and generally bad experiences. Newer (or professional, high cost) units have several ways of avoiding these problems, and the congestion troubles are mostly gone. On my new Asus AC router I have a consistent 300 mb/s on my desktop, and between 140 and 300 on the rest of the equipment. Between 6 and 12 units at any one time, including cellphones, tablets, bluray, Xbox, cable box and a few computers. Most on WiFi.
     
    PoPSiCLe, Jun 26, 2015 IP
  9. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #69
    I'm on a relatively recent N running Tomato (which fixed all sorts of issues) with three wireless and two wired devices, and it's STILL a problem because my ISP inhales upon the proverbial equine of short stature... Yet of the choices available where I am; and where most North Americans are -- I have one of the BETTER connections.

    They've oversold the copper, won't put in fiber until the copper is paid off which means for at LEAST another decade given how they like to keep investors pockets lined, intentionally crap on the connections since it now competes with Cable TV, and in general have no interest in giving the majority of countries like the US and Canada anything resembling a modern connection -- instead they're talking about introducing artificial caps on bandwidth and connections to continue milking the existing infrastructure for all it's worth.

    So blaming the household router here? Not even close to where to point the finger. I doubt that with the average connection in America a router from the pinnacle of wireless B would even reach it's limits unless you happen to live in one of the half dozen major metropolitan areas where fiber actually exists.

    Though you're lucky -- you're in Norway which actually adopted late and didn't do so on credit. Makes your ISP's WAY more agile at adopting new technologies whilst here we've got them trying to figure out how to deliver broadband without replacing a few million miles of copper installed in the 1960's by Ma Bell.
     
    deathshadow, Jun 26, 2015 IP
  10. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #70
    Well, most broadband here is on copper, either ADSL or VDSL, although we do have a decent (but still way too low) amount if fiber, and quite a bit Internet via cable TV providers (high is a mix of coaxial cabling and fiber). And yes, I know that the actual line to the router often is the real problem, but intermittent dropouts, dns errors and drop of the actual WiFi connection is usually due to the router. And especially since we get more and more units connected to routers not meant to handle more than 3-4 units over WiFi. But yes, my router has a far greater bandwidth than my incoming connection - which currently is 25/10 - I'm getting that, within a 5% accuracy. Considering updating to 50/25 or 100/50 though. Nice to have.
     
    PoPSiCLe, Jun 26, 2015 IP
  11. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #71
    you're lucky though that most of your copper is only in the last five miles or less. Here there are large swaths where EVERYONE is sharing 30 year old copper over the last 50+ miles... MOST of that not even being twisted pair.

    That describes what I had a decade ago -- these days if I have intermittent dropouts, it's because there's nothing even coming in the wire. The light on the modem indicating signal goes out, and no amount of power cycling fixes it. DNS from them is so useless I'm pretty much FORCED to use google DNS to even have a prayer of reliability.

    Dropping the wifi connect? Naven't had that problem since I went "all N" and turned off legacy connection support entirely... well, that and ripped out the crappy Asus firmware for Tomato USB.

    Of course just having the offer of 25/10 must be nice. Fastest I can get here is allegedly 45/5, but since it never delivered anything more than 20/2 I downgraded to the normal 15/1 plan that seems to deliver... 20/2. :/

    Here in the colonies upstream speeds faster than 3 are pretty much non-existent unless you're in one of the magical areas that have FIOS, or are willing to drop several hundred bucks a month on it. Even when they claim 5 I've never seen anyplace actually provide it other than Chicagoland or the greater New York City area.

    Which sucks bad since 15 years ago I had 5mbps symmetric for $25/mo. Now 15/2 is the cheapest plan at $68/mo by the time they've taxed us to death.

    Of course that's cable. Fastest DSL of any sort you'll find within 80 miles of me is 3m/768k -- and that usually costs twice what cable does for christmas only knows what reason.
     
    deathshadow, Jun 26, 2015 IP
  12. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #72
    Holy. You DO live in the bronze age, don't you? :-D I pay around $35 for my 25/10 line, an upgrade to 50 would cost me about $15-20 more. This is via the coop where I live, though, so it's a bit cheaper than it normally is.
    My biggest problem with WiFi (until I boosted the signal strength) is that where I love there is about 20 signals on the 2.4ghz network, which does mean the frequencies are a bit clogged. 5ghz on the other hand is barely in use, hence I've seen quite an improvement in general, with speed and consistency of the connection.
     
    PoPSiCLe, Jun 26, 2015 IP
  13. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #73
    Well that's the kicker -- I'm actually better off than a lot of Americans, a lot of Canadians, and a most Australians.

    I go 50 miles north into Coos County, and most people's choices in "high speed" is either tethering to a phone, paying ridiculous prices for hughesnet satellite that usually doesn't work due to a lack of line-of-sight, or shotgunning dialup. Say hello to 128kbps/28.8kpbs as a "fast" connection.

    The non-coastal American west (Utah, Idaho, Nevada, Arizona, both Dakota's), northern New Hampshire and western Maine, great swaths of the midwest are in a similar boat. You end up in these places more than 15 miles from a major city, what your typical Scandahoovian would consider broadband is a fantasy that doesn't even exist.

    Then there's enforced bandwidth caps that are going to increase in commonality; and ARE likely coming to even the magical fantasylands as the bandwidth crunch increases. There's a REASON I'm damned happy the Comcast / Time Warner merger deal was nixed:
    http://gizmodo.com/how-comcast-twc-will-end-your-all-you-can-internet-buff-1523899968

    But as our friends in Canada will tell you, this asshattery on the part of ISP's is going to get worse, not better with no relief in sight. These caps are being added as the number of users increases whilst ISP's remain unwilling to add the infrastructure needed to support current usage rates at current prices -- and they're starting to realize that a lot of people won't pay more.

    THOUGH, IMHO the time is right for an investor to go in, build their own infrastructure in parallel and take over in those markets. Would probably happen if all the companies involved didn't have back-room agreements not to compete with each-other.

    Which is why the fat bloated presentational images, fat bloated scripttardery, fat bloated framework asshattery, is even going so far as to alienate able bodied users in addition to those with accessibility needs! It pretty much plows everyone asunder and for what? Stroking some artists... ego? (I mean something else, but I'll say ego here.)

    But really that goes back to "design for the user" -- a concept often hard to convince graphic artists masquerading as designers AND site owners of is that the "design" is NOT there to stroke the artists ego, or even to meet the desires of the site owner. It is there first and foremost to meet the needs of the visitor to the site -- which is why you have to constantly ask "how does this help the user get to the content", "does this interfere with the user getting to the content", and if it doesn't help or does interfere, DON'T DO IT. In that way site owners, designers and many developers who all should know better are more often than not their own worst enemy. PARTICULARLY when six months into it they are wondering why people complain that it's slow, they're being de-ranked in search, and the site is a money pit.

    As I've quoted a few times now, "the best design is one the user doesn't notice".

    Again what's wrong with most of the graphic artists who've deluded themselves into thinking they know the first damned thing about "design" -- when again they don't know the first thing about user interfaces, usability or accessibility; as evidenced by the train wrecks of ineptitude they have the giant set of brass to call websites.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
    deathshadow, Jun 26, 2015 IP
  14. kk5st

    kk5st Prominent Member

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    #74
    kk5st, Jun 26, 2015 IP
  15. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #75
    Too bad in most of the places I mentioned and including where I am, it's likely going to be a decade or two before it materializes in a meaningful manner.
     
    deathshadow, Jun 26, 2015 IP
  16. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #76
    I think that a lot of the problem graphic design has when translated to the web is that there is no correlation when it comes to what works in print and television, and what works on the web. Absolutely none. Print is an old medium, and innovation, "crazyness" and utter disregard for the limitations of the medium can often end in great designs - again, maybe not from a usability perspective, but at least for print, you have a fairly homogenous market - people able to see, and read. You're not creating magazine covers for blind people (mostly). Hence, when told to design a web-page, many designers have no idea about the concepts needed for having a working website for everyone - and that is perfectly understandable, if the designer haven't worked with web before. Doesn't mean the design has to be bad, it just means the coder(s) need to say "no" when there is something utterly stupid being done - which again is often a problem, since the customer often doesn't understand this, and goes to have a design done before arriving at the coding bit "here, make this page work". I'm actually pondering signing up for a class in HTML5 / CSS basics, just to see what they teach, and how they teach it - maybe also signing up for a PHP starter course, again to see what they teach. I'm guessing I can either ace both classes, or get a fail, simply because I won't be doing anything the way the teacher is telling me to do it... (I'm way too old for classes, I'm just pondering doing some IT courses to actually get some paperwork, and I saw that they have one-semester coding-courses which actually give you points, hence I was pondering just throwing them on top)
     
    PoPSiCLe, Jun 27, 2015 IP
  17. kk5st

    kk5st Prominent Member

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    #77
    About 10 years ago, I took courses at the local community college. I was fortunate enough to have instructors who worked in the field they taught. For Linux admin, the instructor actually was a Linux/Unix sysad. For PHP and dbadmin, my instructor was the chief IT engineer for a major airline, and one of the original six developers of the web server that became Apache.

    On the other hand, the web development courses were centered around Dreamweaver and Photoshop which, IMV, meant they were of no value and I did not take them.

    HTML5 specs are difficult to understand unless you realize that they are written primarily by and for the browser vendors. This is not a Bad Thing necessarily. Their goals are just different from the web developers'. At the core, they are trying to deal with errors and backward compatibility. These are the reasons for bringing back so many deprecated and redundant elements. If you don't specify how they should work internal to the UA, you can't expect, much less guarantee, conformity. If I recall, Ian Hickson has written or edited a version of the specs, stripped of vendor specific stuff and aimed at the developer. If I find the energy, I'll try to find it.

    Before signing up, read the syllabus. A good course will not include the word photoshop or dreamweaver. ;)

    cheers,

    gary
     
    kk5st, Jun 27, 2015 IP
  18. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #78
    Agreed - however, there are no higher education courses (that I've been able to find) that includes Dreamweaver as the "software of choice" at the unis/tech-schools here. It seems to be mostly "chose whatever editor you prefer" type schooling, which is good - that doesn't mean that the coursematerial is any good, though. I'll try to get a hold of either a syllabus or someone who's actually taken these courses before, and can tell me a bit about what they involve.
     
    PoPSiCLe, Jun 28, 2015 IP
  19. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #79
    Then you're very lucky -- around these parts the state college didn't remove FrontPage from the curriculum until LAST YEAR

    Generally speaking you BOTH sound very lucky, as I hath never encountered ANY educator in the field of web development qualified to open their cake-hole on the subject; and generally speaking I extend that to Information Technologies in general.

    We're talking fields where 3 years is obsolete, 5 years is the scrapheap, what good is a 2 to six year program? Figure in the books and knowledge present in education lagging a decade or more behind what's current in the wild, and it feels more like a giant money-making scam preying on the ignorance of Joe Sixpack and Susie Sunshine. Worse of late it seems that "education" seems mated to prolonging childhood and turning everything past primary school into glorified daycare. Hence why at least here in the colonies it seems people can graduate High School with the equivalent of what was a fifth grade education during the Carter administration!

    'Tis why a lot of people working in IT, particularly from my generation and older consider a degree in any IT field to be worth less than a used sheet of bog roll -- you wouldn't even find it fit to wipe with. The only people for whom degrees in the subject mean a damned thing are the folks who you can't expect to know the first thing about IT -- like middle to upper management or human resources personnel. Sadly that's the people handling the hiring! Of course that stands to reason since if they knew about it, they probably wouldn't need to hire someone. Hence why my last full time employer and I had a massive row that ended with "You don't know how to do the job, but you keep second guessing everyone you've hired to tell you how to do the job. I don't give this company more than three months -- If you're not going to listen to me on subjects you admit you know nothing, WHAT THE **** DID YOU HIRE ME FOR!?!" -- said employer coming back hat in hand "save me, save me" four weeks later (literally showing up on my doorstep after pulling my home addy from my W-2 like some creepy stalker); and since I slammed the door in his face said company didnae even make it the three months I had predicted.

    Admittedly, formal education and I always got along like sodium and water; kind of like my zero tolerance for most of the college-set and the current popularist wussy mentality oft found culture-wide the past decade. We seem to have a new generation of coxcombs and dandies more interested in sleazing by on as little effort as possible so they can sit there all day playing farmville -- and in general it has become more about "not upsetting anyone" than 'tis about getting the job done properly or JOE FORBID actually having people learn anything!

    Unless you want the piece of paper JUST to impress people ignorant of the topic, don't waste the money or your time. Sadly with a LOT of people doing the hiring, the description "ignorant of the topic" is an understatement of epic proportions!

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." -- Mark Twain

    It just seems to me that past primary school, educators in all but a handful of fields (medicine, engineering) have become one of the biggest leeches upon the teat of society you can find.
     
    deathshadow, Jun 30, 2015 IP
    Phil S likes this.
  20. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #80
    It's basically just to have papers for the hiring people. Problem is that unless you have those, you won't even get an interview (often), because dimwits straight out of college WITH a degree is "better" than people who's actually been doing what the job entails for 10-15 years. It's completely stupid, but goes to show what happens when external hiring services take over HR at many companies.
     
    PoPSiCLe, Jun 30, 2015 IP