How much to change until work is my own?

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by leftwheel, Sep 4, 2009.

  1. #1
    Hi!

    I design wordpress templates. When doing that i don't code a template from scratch. I take an existing one and change it until it looks the way i want.
    As a matter of fact, someone got angry on me and called me a theme thiev and argued that i stole his theme.
    Actualy, i took his template as a base that's true, but here is what i changed/added:

    Logo psd file
    background-colors throughout the theme
    header-colors / header background
    used fonts
    border colors throughout the theme
    menu-bars
    added jquery lava-lamp menu
    and some more...

    The template looked very different after my work and additionaly included a lava-lamp javascript menu.

    So basicaly i just used the html-structure. Is that allowed? (I mean most of the templates have the same html structure anyway and there are more templates that have this structure that i used)
     
    leftwheel, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  2. BW1

    BW1 Well-Known Member

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    #2
    how did the guy find out you were using his theme?
     
    BW1, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  3. instant87

    instant87 Active Member

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    #3
    I don't think you can... I mean you can take a copyrighted article and change one word and call it yours... same concept goes here. Just keep his footer link in your templates, because you used his template.
     
    instant87, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  4. leftwheel

    leftwheel Well-Known Member

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    #4
    Well, but i didn't change jsut one word. Do you know artisteer software? This software generates html templates like i used.
     
    leftwheel, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  5. LeonVanRensburg

    LeonVanRensburg Peon

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    #5
    I think you can ask him to proof what you have copied. Did he include a copyright notice and a terms of use with his template, or somewhere on his website? As far as I know if that is there then he has a leg to stand on. He will have a stronger case if in his terms of use he said that derivative works is included in his copyrighted work (in other words any change that you make is part of his copyright). But once you put something on the public domain, it is public domain. In other words you can do what you like with it. I am not an attorney, but I think he will have a hard time to proof his case if he did not ship a license agreement with his template. Which I doubt since no-one does.

    As far as I know you cannot copy more than 10% of copyrighted work.
     
    LeonVanRensburg, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  6. Gray Fox

    Gray Fox Well-Known Member

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    #6
    But what if I use completely different HTML syntax, but output looks pretty much the same? If there are thousands of templates for WP there's gotta be many similarities.
     
    Gray Fox, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  7. LeonVanRensburg

    LeonVanRensburg Peon

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    #7
    In other words the layout is the same, the graphics are different and the html is different. Then your template seems to be different. What is remaining that is still the same?
     
    LeonVanRensburg, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  8. ywp

    ywp Peon

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    #8
    If you admit that you started with his template and he still sees his work, then you haven't done enough.

    Issues:

    You can't just change the colours of another theme and call it your own. The other designer may decide to release a colour variant and your work may interfere with it's desirability.

    Fonts are wholly dependent on the operating system, Web browser and user preference. (Unless sifr is involved, but even then ...) Your changing of the font means nothing, because fonts are not fixed in the first place.

    Adding special effects like Lava Lamp isn't substantial enough. Adding a new background is a good start, though.

    Tips:

    Designing something new by drawing from a single source is difficult. (Those who say it's easy are actually drawing on years of experience.) As a result, it's common practice in the Web industry to ask clients for a list of six sites that they find appealing. This gives the designer a direction to follow. See yourself as the client, as well as the designer, and do the same.

    If manipulating existing works is really your thing, you might try buying a developer's license to a theme that's easy to customise. The author keeps the code up to date, while you concentrate on varying the look from sale to sale. Also, there are some base templates out there available free of charge like Starkers, Naked and others.

    License:

    I took a look at the fellow's description: "A free premium wordpress theme..." It sounds pretty weak, but I don't think that he's giving away more rights than he wants to by not spelling it out. I'm not a lawyer, mind you. Regardless, I don't like it when people don't spell it out. Personally, I'll be using the Creative Commons (by-nc-nd) 3.0 License, when the time comes.

    Keep it real.
     
    ywp, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  9. patchseo

    patchseo Peon

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    #9
    Why don't you post a link to his theme and to your theme. Then it would be easier to say if your truly made it your own.

    So many of these themes have a similar structure, I'm surprised that the guy was able to spot his theme if you did make all of these changes.
     
    patchseo, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  10. V_tpp

    V_tpp Active Member

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    #10
    In my opinion this is totally outrageous!

    The theme in question is indeed a rip-off of a Jinsona theme .

    Ignoring the fact that I am a designer too and also ignoring my great admiration for Jinsona, whose themes taught me serious coding, it is simply not ok to take someone's work and credit yourself for it.

    I can only be ashamed that among us, designers, there are people who do this, although, they can not be called designers but simply thievs.

    I can understand you have to learn somehow, but this is not the right way to do it.
     
    V_tpp, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  11. funkymario

    funkymario Notable Member

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    #11
    while i agree with everyone here, if it was my work i personally wouldn't be worried or upset because someone edited my design, they say: imitation is the highest form of flattery, but what you should have done is talk with the original designer and ask for his permission before you publish your version of his template. a few kind words and a thank you can work like charm sometimes..
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
    funkymario, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  12. willrs

    willrs Peon

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    #12
    It's relative. Depending on your point of view, you can consider that almost nobody creates brand new layouts. When I create my layouts I don't use to create them from another one. However, I look for other layouts to get ideas. Am I copying them? So ignore the person that insulted you. You are not a thief, you just do what everybody does.
     
    willrs, Sep 4, 2009 IP
  13. jinsona

    jinsona Well-Known Member

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    #13
    Its a shame I did not see this topic earlier. Though it is late, I cannot resist to reply. Here are my responses to the topic starter who specializes in ripoff.

    First of all, no matter how much you change, if the work is not yours, it is never yours. I noticed the list of "changes" you had made to claim my template as yours.

    1. Created a logo psd file - 2 minutes on photoshop
    2. Changing the color hexacodes on the stylesheet- 5 mins
    3. Added lavalamp menu ( Porting from another theme ) - 10 mins to figure it out
    4. And some more - 3 mins ( if any)

    So it takes about 20 mins to do your magic and you made a theme..ta..da... Then get your head straight and listen, it does not work like that! . What you have done is completely okay, if you are only a user of a theme.If a user like to alter the color and logo and graphics , they are absolutely free to do so. But they are not allowed to resell it. Which is what you are doing.

    Though you repainted my theme and stick in a lavalamp menu, the framework of the theme remains just as I made it. Thats why a theme author can identify his work no matter how pathetically it has been altered. I noticed some of your "releases" prior to this topic , and still see that you are doing the same thing.

    If you are really serious and want to create genuine themes, then I suggest you make use of wordpress frameworks. There are quite a lot of free Wp frameworks available on the web which you can use as a base of your theme. Refer this

    But if you are on the forums only to make some quick bucks from a few unsuspecting sponsors before you get kicked out, then suit yourself.
     
    jinsona, Oct 15, 2009 IP