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How long would it take to get the refund from an Indian seller?

Discussion in 'PayPal' started by sanakhan, May 11, 2014.

  1. #1
    Hi,
    I purchased a micro niche package from this website: mbtcreations.com Later I came to discover that the guy Tarun Goel of Mbt Creations is a big rip-off artists, he takes payment in his paypal account and makes the customers to wait for thirty days for the project. He delivers website after 30-35 days and asks them to wait for few days until the website starts generating money. Over the period of 45 days, he literally keeps his customers waiting for the results and after that he sneaks out from the scene.
    I ordered him one website but wasn't feeling satisfied the way he was communicating with me. He promised to deliver me website in two days but he told me later it would take 45 days, I knew something was wrong because a website with four to five pages shouldn't be taking that much time, so I asked him to refund the money because I had another seller willing to deliver the project within 6 days. He didn't reply me at all to any of my emails. I was so disappointed that I had to open a dispute in Paypal to get the refund, the very next moment he replied back and asked me to wait for 15 days to get the refund, he told me that he had already refunded the money from India but I needed to wait 15 days to get it back.
    I am not a new Paypal user and I have had open two or three disputes in Paypal, even one of my buyers opened it once and got his refund within the same day of my refunding his money. I just want to make sure if Paypal has updated their terms and conditions for Indian sellers, because the payment gets into your a/c as soon as the seller refunds your money.
    The second possibly, which I believe could be true, is that he is lying to me as there is no email alert by paypal confirming that I had a refund from the seller.
    Please help me.
    SEMrush
     
    sanakhan, May 11, 2014 IP
    SEMrush
  2. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #2
    I'm not sure either of your nationalities plays a role here. I didn't think either of you could get paypal?
     
    sarahk, May 11, 2014 IP
  3. sanakhan

    sanakhan Well-Known Member

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    #3
    The seller lives in India and I belong to U.A.E, I have a Paypal. I am living in Pak right now but I created my a/c in U.A.E and got it verified from there as I am here for the time being. The question is whether the seller is telling the truth or not? As per rule the buyer gets his/her payment asap when a refund is made by the seller, right? Here I have someone telling me that the payment cannot be refunded before 15 days as per new rule designed solely for Indian accounts. I don't believe this could be true.......I am trying to confirm it from other users.
     
    sanakhan, May 11, 2014 IP
  4. jazzyjmnote

    jazzyjmnote Banned

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    #4
    Money sent to Indian accounts are Automatically sent to the PAypal account holder's bank account, not sure how this is working in regard to refund as reverse transactions in Asia are not available. Same with some EU countries.
     
    jazzyjmnote, May 12, 2014 IP
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  5. sanakhan

    sanakhan Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Thank for replying. I didn't know that the payment is funded into buyer's bank a/c, I verified the a/c via a visa card, maybe I should try updating the details.
     
    sanakhan, May 12, 2014 IP
  6. CU_Designs

    CU_Designs Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Confirmed that people in India and U.A.E are allowed to have PayPal accounts (source: paypal.com/webapps/mpp/country-worldwide).

    This is the only thing I found on PayPal's site regarding 15 days, "You agree to retain and safeguard the original Check for at least 15 Days after you have photographed and transmitted the Check images. After 15 Days have passed and you have verified that the funds associated with the Check have been added to your Balance, you agree to destroy the original Check." (source: paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full)

    So perhaps the seller has used a check to issue you a refund, thus explaining the 15 day wait. To be sure, I would highly recommend you contacting PayPal by email or phone to inquire about this refund. You've already put in a dispute, so should be easy for PayPal to track and give you the most accurate response regarding your refund.

    From PayPal's site (source: paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Help/general/TopQuestion10-outside):

    If you have an issue of immediate concern and cannot find your answer in the Help Center, or via email, you can use the PayPal phone number found in our Help Center to call us, please.
    Wish you the best in getting your refund. :)
     
    CU_Designs, May 13, 2014 IP
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  7. sanakhan

    sanakhan Well-Known Member

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    #7
    Thank you for your answer. If this is the case, Paypal should have sent a confirm email to me, I didn't get any email so far and it made me believe that the seller is lying. I sent Paypal directly from pp a/c instead of card so the payment should be refunded in the a/c instead of bank account as there is no bank a/c associated yet except for the card which is directly linked with the bank.
    I asked the seller to send the screenshot to prove that he had sent the payment so that I could cancel the claim and waiting for the amount to be refunded back into a/c but he clearly refused to send it. He is behaving very rudely, I guess he is used to doing it with everything. I contacted of of his clients, he told me that he is trying to get his payment back (which is around $450) but the seller is not even replying back. I doubt every word that the seller says, he is a professional rip-off artist I guess. I won't spare him and if i do, he will deceive more people like me and it would be highly unfair.
     
    sanakhan, May 13, 2014 IP
  8. CU_Designs

    CU_Designs Well-Known Member

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    #8
    That is very unfortunate you are experiencing that with that seller. You said you had already put in a PayPal dispute, right? So if I were you, I would escalate the claim and at that point PayPal will step in to review the details of the dispute and make a decision whether or not you are entitled to a refund according to their terms. It's been a long time (more than three years) since I last dealt with a PayPal dispute. So I'm not sure how much it's changed if any at all. I don't want to have to create a fake dispute just to see, but I do believe you have to manually escalate the claim in your PayPal account in order for PayPal to step in and resolve it.

    Oh! Here...I found this: paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/article/?solutionId=FAQ822&topicID=REPORT_RESOLVE_A_PROBLEM&m=TCI -- I know years ago, if the seller did not respond after so many days once a claim has been escalated, that PayPal generally went in favor of the buyer. That may have changed. But nevertheless, it sounds like you have given the seller multiple chances to resolve it just between the two of you and it's not working. So escalate the claim according to that PayPal instruction link I just gave and wait for PayPal to resolve it.

    I really do wish you the best. :)
     
    CU_Designs, May 14, 2014 IP
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  9. Vivek Nanda

    Vivek Nanda Member

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    #9
    Nationality shouldn't be a cause of concern here. The way it works for PayPal merchants in India is as follows:-

    Every single day (post midnight usually), PayPal is supposed to transfer all of the balance from a user's account to his bank account. This is a mandate as per RBI rules - RBI governs banking and NBFCs in India; it is similar to the Federal Reserve in US.

    If you have been scammed/ mislead/ have not been provided the promised product or service there are 3 things that you can do:-
      1. Foremost, contact the seller and see if the dispute can be resolved amicably.
      2. Login to your PayPal account, lookup the transaction and file a dispute stating the appropriate reason. If the seller doesn't respond back within a week, escalate the dispute to a claim.
      3. Otherwise, call your Credit card/bank organization and ask them to reverse the charges
    Opposed to the common belief that once the money gets transferred to sellers the bank account, the buyer can't do much is not true. You have full liberty and authority to fight back using the above mentioned methods.

    Hope this helps you!
     
    Vivek Nanda, May 16, 2014 IP
    sanakhan likes this.
  10. unna

    unna Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Share the DP profile.
     
    unna, May 16, 2014 IP
  11. sanakhan

    sanakhan Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Today I logged into my a/c and noticed that the seller has escalated the claim himself before I could even send a message to the help center. The paypal is showing this message on the dispute page:"Awaiting other party response", I opened the page to see the details, it seemed the Paypal is waiting for the seller's response and he must do it by 16th May 2014. Today is 17th of May, I didn't see any refund or anything yet, there is no option I can possibly use in order to escalate the claim. Oh! I remorse for that fragile moment when I trusted an Indian seller, whenever I try to do business with an Indian person I end up being betrayed.
     
    sanakhan, May 16, 2014 IP
  12. sanakhan

    sanakhan Well-Known Member

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    #12
    Thank you for trying to help me out. I guess I was stranded and there was no solution, after posting the thread here I realized that there always were some options for me to use which I never knew of. I should be thankful to everyone who is here, giving me guide to resolve the issue.
    1. I have contacted him tens of times and he never cared to reply back to me until I opened a dispute and that was weird to me. He responded just after few seconds of my lodging a dispute in Paypal.
    2. I wanted to open a dispute but the seller has did it himself and it might be an effort on his part to make me change my mind as he kept asking me to wait for at least 30 days while it didn't make sense to wait that long even when I had cancelled the order. Check these lines:
    • 5/6/2014 07:26 GMT+04:00 - PayPal: Seller escalated this dispute to a Claim.
    • 5/6/2014 07:26 GMT+04:00 - Seller: You have the amount. So please refund the buyer asap.
    3. The payment was not funded into my a/c via Credit Card, I had it transferred by my friend to my a/c. The seller claims that he had sent the payment already but there was no email from Paypal. I doubt each word that the seller says as he is a professional, wise scammer.
    I am pretty much sure that Paypal will take a decision in my favor as there seems to be no response from the seller as yet.

    Thank you
     
    sanakhan, May 16, 2014 IP
  13. Vivek Nanda

    Vivek Nanda Member

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    #13
    @sanakhan If the seller had sent (refunded) the payment, then the case would have automatically closed. If the seller claims to have done so via an off-PayPal transaction, then that's only possible if the seller knew your bank account details - which I believe is not the case.

    How does the seller claim that he has refunded the payment? Was it through a dispute message/comment on PayPal?
     
    Vivek Nanda, May 16, 2014 IP
  14. coolpavan

    coolpavan Well-Known Member

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    #14
    Don't waste time in waiting
    rather you should esclate the issue to paypal and get the refund ASAP

    if he would have refunded the money then you must have got it by now
     
    coolpavan, May 17, 2014 IP
  15. sanakhan

    sanakhan Well-Known Member

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    #15
    You are right!! The seller didn't know my bank a/c details, he was lying that he had refunded the money. I didn't have to open a dispute against him because I just got a message from Paypal, informing me that my payment has been reversed automatically, the seller didn't respond at all.

    I am happy that Paypal resolved it carefully and completed the disputed in a fair manner. I hope that the seller will not dare scam more people, I am planning to write a review against his company.
    Thank you for helping me once again.
     
    sanakhan, May 18, 2014 IP
  16. sanakhan

    sanakhan Well-Known Member

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    #16
    Thanks. I have already done that, I'm glad for winning the case:)
    Cheers!
     
    sanakhan, May 18, 2014 IP
  17. matt_62

    matt_62 Notable Member

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    #17
    Im glad you have won the case, and received your money back.

    Typically when I have won (and lost) former paypal cases, in each time, the person that won, was instantly rewarded the funds from paypal, at which case, the person that lost instantly has a negative paypal balance and it is up to paypal to recover the funds from the person that lost the dispute. I think the person claiming they sent a refund outside of paypal, could have been a way to try to get you to close the dispute. (which is VERY BAD!)

    One thing I learnt the hard way was NEVER close the dispute. One person convinced me they just needed another week, and so I agreed, and closed the case, and poof, the guy vanished. Noone told me that if I closed a case that it could never be re-opened.

    BEFORE you spend alot of time posting bad reviews on his company, here is something to consider. Alot of legitimate people have sold:
    * domains,
    * products,
    * services
    and found that after delivering the work, that buyers have done chargebacks. In some cases, they even claim their paypal accounts were hacked and that they did not pay for any services. In this instance, the person selling gets screwed. There are now some people that do delay delivering of goods and services, simply to allow time so that they dont get screwed. For example, waiting 4 weeks is enough time to prove the account wasnt hacked (as surely a compromised account would have been found by now) but at the same time, I have heard of businesses having chargebacks done 90 days later, where the person that did buy the service, must have reported to their credit card company fraudulent transactions in an effort to get out of paying for 3 months worth of online spending.

    So yes, there is 99% chance this guy was only interested in scamming, you, but there is a 1% chance, that they have simply done heaps of work, and been badly screwed over in the past. Paypal is very painful for honest sellers, as they will almost always side in favour of the buyers. For people that have been hurt badly before by paypal chargebacks, waiting a few weeks before delivery of a product, or service is dreadful service, but may genuinely be the best way they know of to avoid paypal scams.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
    matt_62, May 18, 2014 IP
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  18. sanakhan

    sanakhan Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Thank you for your detailed answer. I don't have much experience with the Paypal disputes so I didn't know how to open a claim to get my money back.When there is something wrong your instincts alert you automatically, I have been working online since 2009 so I can easily demeanor of buyers and sellers to make a personal judgement on the quality of their products and services. The way that particular person was behaving actually put him on my radar, the second weird thing was his getting paranoid for no obvious reason. If you are representing a good company, you ought to learn how to incorporate seven C's when communicating with the customers. The person sent me several messages to show his anger when I asked for the update after seven days of ordering the website. I don't think the seller should behave relentlessly or rudely if the buyer just asks for an update, that never made sense to me.

    Thanks for adding to my knowledge that we can't reopen a dispute once we close it, I was about to close the case when he asked for it but something didn't let me do it.
    I believe there was 100% chance that the person wanted to screw me up because he had done that several times in the past. I had even contacted one of his clients in curiosity to confirm whether I was on the track or not.
     
    sanakhan, May 18, 2014 IP
  19. coolpavan

    coolpavan Well-Known Member

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    #19
    congrats on winning the case :)
     
    coolpavan, May 19, 2014 IP