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How does one find a "real" and "quality" writer?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by MrSandMan, May 12, 2008.

  1. CalissaLeigh

    CalissaLeigh Peon

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    #21
    Magazines pay writers anywhere from $.10 a word to $1.00 a word or even more. You can bet the more popular magazines pay $.75 a word and up.

    The rates for content for the web will depend on a number of factors, similar to writing for magazines. A lot of the content I write for SEO companies don't require an interview with several sources and a ton of in-depth research. This is why rates can be less on occasion, they are just far easier to write. If that were to change, if they started requesting quotes and such, the rates would certainly go up.

    Notably, if you are willing to pay such rates, you don't have to go very far to find quality writers. Many top magazine writers visit absolutewrite.com and writersweekly.com, and there are forums on each where you can talk to freelance writers and discuss rates and even post your request.
     
    CalissaLeigh, May 14, 2008 IP
  2. telegraph.hill

    telegraph.hill Peon

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    #22
    Interesting ideas - but I think people are still driven to think and cope with problems in a tropical environment too.

    This is a debate that could run and run ...
     
    telegraph.hill, May 14, 2008 IP
  3. sheilasultani

    sheilasultani Peon

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    #23
    sheilasultani, May 14, 2008 IP
  4. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #24
    Magazines which are noteworthy hire copy writers. They pay them well and there is a reason.

    Have you ever read the covers of Cosmo.. Vanity Fair.... Etc??? They write enticing ads and articles that SELL!!!!!!!!!!

    I steal their headlines for PPC marketing. :D

    To the OP if you need a copy writer I use a woman who worked for NBC and is absolutely fantastic. Feel free to send a PM for her website.
     
    Sem-Advance, May 14, 2008 IP
  5. Webzu

    Webzu Peon

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    #25
    Copywriting legend Bob Bly has a chapter in his book on how to hire copywriters. Asking for references, writing samples, etc. If you haven't read his book it's really good. The Copywriter's Handbook. You can find it for around $10 on Amazon.
     
    Webzu, May 14, 2008 IP
  6. ScarlettLetters

    ScarlettLetters Peon

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    #26
    Mr. Sandman, I'm curious as to what types of problems that you've had with the articles that you've bought. What standard are you looking for? Are you running into problems with people who have poor grammar and spelling skills, people who can't do basic research, people whose native language is clearly not English?

    Also, did you see samples of their work before you hired them?

    At the risk of sounding self-serving - I see people here are asking about rates - I charge .05 a word for writing ebooks and articles. I have never had a complaint from a client yet.

    That works out to $250 for a 5000 word ebook, which is 20 pages of 250 words each. I know a couple of other ghostwriters; they charge twice what I charge. They are excellent writers.

    I charge based on my experience level and on the quality of my work; I was a newspaper reporter for 17 years, and I won awards for my articles. My quality, and the quality of the ghostwriters I am talking about, is what you would see in a typical magazine. I don't think that's an unreasonable standard to ask of your writers - but it doesn't come cheap. And in all honesty, I think my rates are too low for what I provide.

    My point is - you can find cheaper writers, but the vast majority of the time, you will end up with substandard work.
     
    ScarlettLetters, May 16, 2008 IP
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  7. CalissaLeigh

    CalissaLeigh Peon

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    #27
     
    CalissaLeigh, May 17, 2008 IP
  8. ScarlettLetters

    ScarlettLetters Peon

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    #28
    I am completely with you on that, Calissa! Actually I'll PM you - I'd love to chat.

    So, I guess to make this relevant to the OP - make sure that you are paying enough to get good writers. A bargain is not always a good thing.
     
    ScarlettLetters, May 17, 2008 IP
  9. Online Writer

    Online Writer Peon

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    #29
    Here are some tips:

    Hire a single writer or very small company (2-3 people).
    Demand samples. I can't stress this enough.
    Tell them EXACTLY what you want. If you say I want 10 articles on broccoli, be prepared for anything. Instead tell them you want 10 articles but give them exact topics instead of letting them do it. You could do: Broccoli recipes, tips to get your kids to eat broccoli, how to grow your own broccoli, etc..

    If you don't trust the writer or haven't used them before, have them conform to your standards, don't conform to theirs.
     
    Online Writer, May 18, 2008 IP
  10. Mikesblank

    Mikesblank Active Member

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    #30
    If you manage to find a credible financial writer...refer them my way and I'll be Very appreciative :)
     
    Mikesblank, May 19, 2008 IP
  11. webgal

    webgal Peon

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    #31
    Sometimes it's simply not easy to find the right fit. For instance, I don't ordinarily get business owners who are new to being business owners. By the time someone gets to me, they are usually more experienced business person. Or I often get calls from marketing directors and advertising agencies. Sometimes it simply takes some trial and error to get the right supplier. And when you do, it's pretty darn nice.
     
    webgal, May 19, 2008 IP
  12. MrSandMan

    MrSandMan Well-Known Member

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    #32
    Hi Scarlett, thanks for taking the time to respond to the thread.

    I've learned a lot in the last few weeks. There are two kinds of articles to use;

    1.) Substandard cheap work (example: 500 words for $3) that is basically a wr-write of random content found on the web. This is basically content to keep your website 'fresh' with 'keywords', most notably, spider food. (Feeding the spiders is always good) :) And, the reader can use the the 'summarized' article instead of visiting 5 websites to gather the same information. The problem with this, is corporate websites don't like to this, because it's not 'news' or 'hot'.

    2.) Articles that tread new water, new stuff that is grabbing to read. Has character and the reader can relate to the author. Visualize the story in their heads and compelled to read more. These are the articles that make readers wanting to come back, and these are the articles that corporate websites love to like to. This is the best way to build solid reputation and powerful backlinks. And dramatically increase your SERPS. These are the articles that one must pay for, because it takes a special author with personality to write compelling content.

    BOTH are important for anyone on a budget. It's imperative that webmasters keep their content fresh. Many webmaster, like myself, can't afford to drop $75.00- $250.00 on one article (per the price magazine authors get paid). Or even $50.00 and article. I don't think that all content needs to be a 'hit'. I do believe content must remain fresh and updated on a daily basis.

    With that said, and to answer Scarlett's question, I've been hiring 'authors' on DP for $3 - $4 per article that was absolutely horrendous! My 8-year old daughter could write better and she's probably more qualified. You think with 10 -20 post of happy customers, their work would be acceptable.

    Well, I learned on Digital Point that 'WE' the customer are only allowed to write a positive review. Negative posts in their thread result in a 2-point infraction (I was just zapped for writing in their thread that their work was subpar). It wasn't nasty, just stating the facts.

    So Mods only allow positive reviews, not negative. Remember this when you hire a cheap writer. If you give a negative itrader, they retaliate with a negative. So basically, just write it off as a waste of time.

    Let me tell you what, finding the right writer isn't an easy task. It takes a lot of time.

    Good news though, I have found two freelance writers in my niche that I have hired. They are getting paid well, and I offer them bonuses if any one of their articles are featured on corporate websites.

    Incentives seems like the fair way to go. It's win / win.

    Again, thanks for all the replies to this thread. You all have been great help!
     
    MrSandMan, May 19, 2008 IP
  13. jschuman

    jschuman Active Member

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    #33
    Writing website and blog content is hard work and most writers are grossly underpaid. You do get what you pay for and there is different level of expectations in term of quality and payment. If you want special attention pony up and pay for it. You will easily find a handful of writers who are willing to work almost entirely for you if you are willing to compensate them.
     
    jschuman, May 19, 2008 IP
  14. imthunder

    imthunder Peon

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    #34
    I think samples are key, if a writer is serious then they will write you a free unique sample to show their skill set. I don't see why a writer would give fake content and then low quality content as they can't expect to be paid for their efforts. Also you may be mixing up content genterators(such as myself) with 'writers'. DP isn't the best place for proper writers which is why it is hard to find them here. I am not sure where to find proper writers just like I am unsure where proper writers find their jobs.
     
    imthunder, May 21, 2008 IP
  15. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #35
    Um, no. If a writer is serious, they'll have some kind of portfolio available for viewing - not "they will write you a free unique sample to show their skill set." And for the record, there are plenty of "proper writers" here on DP.
     
    jhmattern, May 21, 2008 IP
  16. webgal

    webgal Peon

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    #36
    I'm with Jenn on this one. If I had to write a free unique sample for every client who calls, I'd be working free all the time. I have tons of samples--some are published on the web and I can provide additional examples, too.

    It takes a ton of upfront research to write anything--from copywriting to PR and article writing. No one gets a project and immediately starts to write. There's a lot of upfront work. There are many times that upfront research takes more time than the writing part.
     
    webgal, May 21, 2008 IP
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  17. ScarlettLetters

    ScarlettLetters Peon

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    #37
    I will show people samples of what I've written - I expect people to want proof that I can write! - but I would never write something for free in the hopes of getting hired. A lot of inexperienced writers get scammed that way.
     
    ScarlettLetters, May 23, 2008 IP
  18. Chenfeng

    Chenfeng Peon

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    #38
    MrSandMan, when I was about to post a reply to your first post, I held myself back and read the whole thread first. It turned out you already found a solution to your problem. I am happy for you. Let me just give my two cents piece to the future readers who might stumble upon this thread.

    I grew up from a family who's somewhere in the middle of the poor and the middle class. When I was young, I asked my grandmother why she insisted on letting me do THE work when we can hire someone to do THAT work. She said, "You should know how it's properly done so that you'll know if your workers are doing great or otherwise." So how does one find a good writer? Be a writer yourself. Even if you don't strive to be the best, just be one.

    Can't relate my answer to the current question? MrSandMan said this himself, "Finding the right writer isn't an easy task. It takes a lot of time." Time is your most precious asset. Why waste it? If you help yourself become a writer:

    1.) You can edit other's work if it doesn't meet your standards. Two heads are better than one! Most probably, you'll end up with a better article than if you two were to create two different articles. If you happen to have hired an amateur writer, your pay won't go to waste. Plus, you actually helped that amateur grow. That goes to say, that if you can't find your "real" and "quality" writer, create him/her yourself.

    2.) Should you go broke, you'll still be able to write great articles that could earn you money. Actually, talent such as this alone, will not do. Which brings me to my little advice to ScarlettLetters (I have comments regarding some of your posts here. Although you have a point.) :) since you have such a great talent, I suggest that you learn sales skills so that you'll earn the money you deserve. You should learn to sell yourself! There are many books out there regarding sales. Let me warn you though that although many are good, most are not applicable nowadays. I actually found a free e-book that I value so much. It's kinda focused on MLM but it's applicable to any business in general. Why bother with businesses, you say? Because your talent is your business. You deserve better!

    I hope this helped.
     
    Chenfeng, May 27, 2008 IP
  19. ndcole78

    ndcole78 Peon

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    #39
    The key to hiring a writer is to first, look at their work samples. This will instantly provide you with an idea of the job they'll do for you. Secondly, look at who they've done work for.

    Most successful writers are also those writing for successful marketers, so if the writer you're considering also does work for successful marketers, then guess what that writer can make you....A successful marketer also....And the best part is that you don't have to hold their hand because they already know how the game works and how to relate to prospects.

    To your success!
     
    ndcole78, May 27, 2008 IP
  20. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #40
    I have an article referenced on a major magazine's site by one of their house writers. That article was born from quite a bit of research and practical experience.

    I was also lucky enough to craft two articles, in an 8-day period, that landed on the front page of Digg. They were topics that I felt strongly about and was able to create a bit of controversy with. As I feared, my success brought a fellow forum member wanting me to write an article to get him on the front page of Digg as well. The assumption was that I could somehow, at will, knock out winning pieces like those three on any topic.

    When I started asking him for a hook or some idea that he thought was fresh and hot enough to garner a bunch of interest (after all, he was supposed to be the true expert on this topic) he could not come up with anything. Did those writers who failed you have any guidance from you or were you expecting them to find winners completely on their own?

    I bring this up because writing a truly newsworthy article on a specific topic takes a great deal of time and effort. I had pondered those three articles of mine for several weeks before I actually put pen to paper. If you are hoping to get noticed by trade magazines, the level of detail has to be much higher than the vast majority of the content being written and typically requires a writer who has spent years working in or around that industry or has some killer research skills.

    And a final thought...that home run article you mentioned, how much business and income did it bring you? Why should any writer accept $3 for an article that could generate their customer thousands of dollars worth of free advertising and the sales it could garner? If they truly have that much knowledge of the topic and can write that effectively, it would surely be more profitable for them to create their own site or blog and simply monetize it with Adsense than to accept $3 for their efforts.


    If I were looking for someone who had the level of knowledge and insight you are hoping to find, I would go to forums on that topic and look over the posts there. Rather than try to find a writer who could learn about the topic, I would look for a SME with good writing skills who may not even realize that they could make a tidy sum writing professionally.
     
    YMC, May 27, 2008 IP