I once had a chat site that had 50+ chatters in each chat room at the same time, that was quite busy for me, until Google de-ranked for link spam put there by a competitor, but now I am lucky to get 3 or 6 with my new site, although sites that are younger are ranking right up there on the top of page 1 in Google, so the age shouldn't matter, I do know the ranking does. The sites I see above mine with lots more chatters are using free scripts or they have not even made an effort, some are even using .co.in domains! Their sites look amateurish and lack functions or the chat rooms are hosted on a different domain to the main page. I check backlinks and see a lot of spammy links, thousands of links for a domain that is less than 6 months old, you would think the Google spam team would de-rank them by now, but no, they are still tops. I refuse to do any black-hat SEO, so maybe I am just destined to fail in this niche. It kind of makes my blood boil because when I build a chat site, I spend quite a lot of money on the software and a lot of time setting it all up. A chat site should not just be about the chat room, it should have a solid community base and good features. Video chat is very important these days, so all 3 of my sites have video chat. I host them on dedicated servers and I own the media server, no third party servers being used, everything is in-house. Log-in is another thing, you don't want to ask for lots of info, log-in or signup needs to be simple, with my setup, you can enter the chat rooms without registration, sign-in with Facebook or you can register an onsite profile, which only requires your username, email and a password. Basically you can enter the chat rooms without any hassle pretty much instantly. I build any site that involves registration and log-ins using SSL. I also make sure that the chat rooms work on all devices, whether desktop, mobile or tab. I make the navigation as easy as possible, no matter what page you land on, the "Chat Rooms" button is at the top, click it and you are taken into the chat rooms. I make sure that if the chatter wants a bigger chat, they can click a button to load the chat rooms up into a full screen. I have basically done my best to create a chat site that people should be flocking to if they like chat sites, to me it is probably better than the ones on page 1 of Google. Does Google not see quality anymore or is their spam team taking a long break? When I asked in Google Groups why the crap at the top is there, they told me that the sites at the top have an app that is popular on Google Play, however, I can not find the apps. I even produced my own app, it got very high up, traffic was coming in but no chatters in the chat room, then Google terminated my developer account so that was that, but for around 3 months I had a lot of traffic just chatters in the chat rooms! So, I am asking for you to take a look at my site and see if you can work out where you think the problem is? Is it the server? Is it the navigation? Where am I going wrong? My site is called 1freechat and you can access it here https://1freechat.com Thank you for any help.