New client with an almost done new site, wants to rank better than competitors, HTML code such a mess it will never happen no matter what words appear on the page.... Do you tell client and risk them thinking you're only trying to shake them down for more work or work for someone you know? Do you not say anything, write the pieces and walk away knowing they are not going to be competitive SEO-wise? I'm not talking about a few boo-boos here and there, I'm talking big giant mess as in... what heading tags are used are used improperly, like 4 H1 tags on pages with text like "13 listings" or "Search" all of the title tags are the nickname the programmers have used for the client no meta description or keyword tags extremely bloated code inline style definitions for every paragraph despite using 11, yes 11 different style sheets spacer.gif types of files used all over the place and that's just what I've found so far I've already told my client and we're scheduled to talk later today. So far, she's asking the right questions but I know I'm still at risk of her walking away. So, my fellow writers, would you have told the client or not? If you had been asked to critique the site and paid to do so, would you have looked at any of the code or just talked about what's displayed to site visitors?
I would bring up her code. "By the way, I did notice that your HTML is not set up right so Google can properly read it so you can stand a better chance to rank high. If you want to discuss this, just let me know." Then move on to the next subject to be talked about. If she isn't that concerned about seo or if she feels that her programmer did the right job, well, she just won't talk about it. Just in case she does want to talk about it, I would print out her code ahead of time, hightlight the parts I think needs correcting, so it is easier for her to understand, explain to her why it needs to be fixed, then tell her it will take X amount of time to do it. I would then leave the paper in front of her (an old sales tactic), and then go back to talking about what she originally wanted to talk about. This leaves the impression that you aren't pressuring her, but it does indeed need fixing. ... You are just bringing it to her attention, while at the same time making yourself available to fix it for her. Make sense? Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but Google knows that it is a common practice used for years by programmers to use image spacers to help control a particular blank space. It's not used to fool the spiders. (But didn't Google stop reognizing alt tags in images anyway?) However, if it is text.... Spiders do not care what the number of style sheets there are. As long as the top portion of the code is easy to read. No? Yes?
Thanks for the input Perry. My client's quite upset about the whole thing. She's asked me to write a list for her programmers from the perspective of being her SEO person requesting changes. Our trust level seems good because she said don't worry if she understands what I'm asking for, just put what needs doing. She's also asked me to get a quote for a third party to fix things or start from scratch - the whole CMS side of it has me a bit worried about the ability for us to update the site later. There's nothing really wrong with inline styling and spacers, unless you're a coding purist. In this case the white space seems to be being used when the 11 style sheets can't get the job done. The one spacer is resized to the size of an index card for the heading. They're using the spacer for blank lines instead of putting margins or padding after the paragraph tags - each of which are inline styled down to the font-size for every paragraph in the main body of the page. (The code looks very much like the junk produced by the WYSIWYG editors.) All that junk just adds to the load time for all of the pages and supposedly makes it harder for the bots to find the text. Not sure about Google proper but I think Google images does use the alt tags. No proof, just observations of how some of my own pictures have been indexed. Google certainly uses the meta descriptions though and there's not a single one on the entire site. For all of our conversations about bad writers out there, when it comes to web design the marketplace is even worse. With these folks, I just don't get it. They did some really clever database work for her and then messed up the fundamental things. I had hoped to get some feedback from you but what I also find interesting is that no one else has offered an opinion. I wonder how many "SEO writers" ever think to look at the code and if they would know what to look for anyway. Yet another argument for people to look for writers who have their own site.
I am not a writer but I see this happen frequently in the wed design business with writers, graphics people, seo guys, etc. It usually turns into a big drama dilemma because the guy that made the bad code will usually claim the other person has no clue because they are just a ______ . Then the website owner starts getting confused and asks some more people and will probably get another 3 different answers,, even more confusion.. and then the uneducated customer will probably take the advice of who ever is a better talker(not the best advice). Maybe your client will just take your advice and fix things up from there but don't be surprised if a few more opinions(usually uneducated or personal serving ones) come into the whole deal. Usually the bigger the site the more people get involved.
He said, she said was something I was a bit worried about. But, stuff like 4 H1 tags should be fairly easy to prove as poor coding, should it come to that. This isn't the first time I didn't like a client's code but it is is the first time I thought the code would keep a site from ranking well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the requested changes will be done with a minimum of fuss. I guess that I've been lucky, up to now, with not having to argue with other web folks on a project. It's so awful for the clients when this sort of thing happens. I was worried she would think I was simply trying to upsell her or get her to switch to "my programmer".
This is the problem I run into a lot. People will come try to get a quote on some work but the site is totally worthless, messed up code, bugs everywhere, Godaddy tonight web template, 15 year olds school project, etc. So I would usually tell them the site will never rank, the code is bad and it would be more trouble to fix it then a new one would be, give them the reasons why try to educate them. Never sold a site doing that.. People just act like I am a used car salesman trying to up sell them. So now I bite my tongue, don't waste my time and just say "I wouldn't be able to help you with that site". I figure if they want to know why they will ask. I am sick of people thinking I am trying to up sell them a new site. It is probably easier coming from a writer because you might seem more natural but when I do that as a web designer it doesn’t come off so well. I guess it is like the mechanic telling someone they need to buy a new car,, from them.
Yeah, so many make things so complicated, and they do things that at times are not necessary. When I started some five years back, I needed a programmer to do a simple site. He said I needed a style sheet. It would have cost more. He wasn't trying to rip me off, he was just one of those 'puter techies who has been brainwashed to the point where he can't THINK to do simple things. Back then I had my head up my ass I knew so little. But I had the common sense to realize that I did not need one. I didn't have a multiple-page site (like a magazine), and I wasn't planning on having one either. Like trying to find a good copywriter who makes things simple, it's VERY hard to find a programmer who uses common sense. heh well put. I know very little about code, but I do know that many times a simple thing can be turned into a real cluster fuck. I had one client a couple of months back saying that a programmer told him that he needed to do this, he needed to do that to his site. Instead of putting in my input, thus confusing him even more, I just showed him sites that run just fine, and they are ranked high! Like, style sheets, for example. I see value in them, but, hell, there are soooooo many damn sites that have them and the webmasters don't even need them. And the code they put in...Jesus. Basically, Google likes simple sites that many, many sites link to, and its longevity. Basically that's it. Hell, there are a lot of sites that don't even have keywords in their code, and they rank high! So, consider doing that. Show them examples of simple sites that are just fine without all of the complicated crap. You can also point them towards Matt Cutts' blog. http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/ Just doing those two simple things makes you look a hell of a lot smarter than those programmers out there, along with those so-called "SEO gurus." ... And you don't even have to say much ( I don't say anything)! ... Just show examples! Glad it worked out for ya.