How did you start out a programmer? Advice for a beginner?

First, what do you plan on building? Strictly web applications or do you eventually want to program full applications that run as a .exe file?

If your interested in strictly web applications---Either decide PHP or PERL (Perl can just be as powerful as PHP). Thats my recommendation. You choose whichever interest's you more.

And if you do plan on building app's for Windows or what not, then yeah C is probably a good beginner's language.

 

Im not sure, I like Java though. I think windows application may be along the road, but web applications for now.

I want to build small games or so such as Runescape. Then progress to making a real time game such as Warcraft or Counter Strike.

 

I started out at about 6 or 7 just doing stupid stuff like drawing stick men and playing little tunes on our family's old Spectrum. 17 years and a Computer Science degree later and I am an IT consultant for a huge huge IT company

As others have hinted at, the most important thing is not to learn a programming language, but to learn how to programme. Someone mentioned reading the gang of four book, thats fine but I'd leave things like design patterns and OO programming for later when you have a really sound understanding of programming in general - learn to crawl, before you even think about learning to run before you can walk!!!

It is best (in my view) to concentrate 100% on the basics of programming - loops, variables, functions etc. Doesn't matter what language you are using really so long as you can get the basics going. Once you know how to code in general, you can take your skills and apply them to pretty much anything else.


Dont be afraid to experiment - if you don't know if something will work just try it and see! If it doesn't do want you want, just try again! Hands-on experimentation is the best way of learning in my experience, I personally found that books on the programming were pretty shitty, and nothing beats just sitting down and trying stuff out yourself.

I'd say for making windows apps, use C# (i.e. go and download Visual Studio Express C# for free from Microsoft). For just learning the basics, try something simple like QuickBasic - avoid Java, C and C++ until you know what you are doing.

 

Is visualbasic any good? I have a whole ebook package on that.

And what do you mean by learning programme first, not a language? How can I do that?

 

I actually started with Visual Basic.....Didn't really end up learning it fully though. But like MattD mentioned, it helped me with the basics that I was able to then use and apply it to other languages.

Best advice is to just explore what interests you. Create a project for yourself that your interested in achieving and go for it.

 

I started with Visual Basic. The thing is that VB is different from most other compiled languages. It ONLY works on the Windows platform. But it's the easiest to start with an building a GUI and such. Try VB express (free). And go to learnvisualstudio.net and get some of their video tutorials.

 

So Visual Basic uses the Visual Express IDE?

What is the difference between VBScript and Visual Basic?

And why is there so many versions of Java like Java 3D, Java Game programming, Javascript, Java SE 6 and what else?!?!?

What do all these mean, and what should be learned?

 

Hi.

I'm only 16 and i consider myself a pretty competent programmer. i wrote www.cgfreelance.net when i was 14 (although its been spammed out now.) I've also had a couple of paid web programming jobs, and my latest project, wwwopoly, written in php, mysql and delphi (See signature) is coming on very well, 60 users registered and it was launched less than a week ago.

I started with html when i was like 12, then dabbled around in other things like delphi javascript. but i only really got stuck in when i learnt PHP. I learn quickest by doing something with it. cgfreelance. i learnt the basics of php, the structure of it (syntax) and then started writing CGFreelance. if there was something i couldn't do, i learnt how. it was a pretty small project compared to wwwopoly but i learnt a lot, and at the end, i was pretty competent at php.

As for delphi, i started college in september, and i took computing. The syllabus assumed little or no prior programming knowledge. The first language they taught us was pascal. once we learnt the basics of pascal, the same concepts could be applied to other languages, namely Delphi. after pascal, we learnt delphi (which is like object oriented, win32 version of pascal.) Using what i learnt in computing of delphi and my own knowledge of php, i made wwwopoly.

The most important advice i can offer is probably learn the basics, then set yourself a project, stick to that project and you'll learn what you need as you go through the project, by the end, you'll be pretty competent.

Also, you have to have an interest. Unlike you, my dad did the first computing courses available in england at sheffield polytech and retired at 48 because of a lifelong carrer working in barclays IT section. I've been bought up and raised round computers so that helped a lot. But i'm genuinly interested in computing and programming and have been all my life because of my up bringing. because of that, i enjoy researching, learning and doing programming and computing. I think that's pretty important too.

Finally, learn to use search engines. It will be invaluable to you, especially if you don't have any experienced people close by to ask for help from, the internet will be your best friend.

And also, stick around sites like this! lots of useful, clever and wise people around to help you out.

 

Dude. There are so many different variations for the 'same' programming language. They change as needed.

VBScript, VB6, Visual Basic EXpress, Visual Basic.NET, BASIC

 

I honestly wouldn't recommend learning Visual Basic. It's easy to learn but its syntax is so much more different than most languages, it's just not worth it. The best way to get your feet wet though is just to jump into it; worry about the details later.

 

How did I start as a programmer? When I was 14 (LONG time ago!) I got a Commodore 64 micro for christmas, as did many of my friends. They played games, but I was always more fascinated by how the games actually worked.

In those days (early 80s), just about every computer magazine had a programming section, with code listings you could type in and run. I typed them in, ran the programs, read the accompanying articles and gradually figured out how they worked. I looked things up in the C64's manual, which included rudimentary instructions for the built in BASIC programming language.

I borrowed programming books from the local library, read them and tried things out as I went along. I became hooked on computers - particularly programming - and eventually studied computer science at college. There they used the pascal programming language, which I grew to love once I'd gotten over the differences from my "native" BASIC.

From there, I went on to Uni, again studying computer science, and acquired a PC at home. One of the first things I installed was Borland Turbo Pascal for DOS. Eventually I moved to Turbo Pascal for Windows, then Delphi. Over the years I've used LOTS of different programming languages, including C, C++, COBOL, Prolog and goodness knows how many more, but I still code in Delphi for preference.

Learning to program today is probably both easier and harder than it was when I was 14. On the one hand, there is a LOT of good information to be found on the net, and many forums / usenet groups where you can go to ask questions, whereas, in the old days, you were pretty much stuck with books and magazines - great in their way, but hardly interactive.

On the other hand, most kids my age who had a computer had at least a little understanding of how to write a simple program - again, the magazines were full of type-in programs, and keying them in then debugging errors was almost second-nature, even if they didn't fully understand what they were doing. Today's PCs don't have any obvious programming facilities built in (I know, there's the Windows scripting thing, but it's not OBVIOUS) and most kids wouldn't have a clue how to start - if they ever gave it a thought at all - so it's harder to kick ideas around amongst your friends.

I see several folks on this thread have mentioned the Express editions of VB etc. You may also want to check out the equivalent free Borland tools, including a free version of Delphi (http://www.turboexplorer.com/).

Whichever you go with, though, I suggest you start with a simple project and work your way up. There's a LOT to take in in a modern programming environment, and it can seem a little overwhelming, but it if you keep going it won't be long before you're right at home with it all. It will be worth the effort - I still enjoy programming as much now as I did when I was 14.

Rob.

 

Syntax is secondary. A for loop will always be a for loop. declaring variables, and the concept or arrays etc,.. remain the same regardless of the language and that is the most important out of everything else it takes to become a great programmer.

Programming logic and the fundemental basics. If you really want to get down to the basics although not necessary, is the Alice world program. www.alice.org

 

Seconded. As i said, i was first properly taught the fundamentals the beginning of this academic year in pascal, even though i've been programming for a good 2 years in various web languages, it was extremely useful. Pascal isnt a very useful language anymore, but its good for learning fundamentals.

 

i started by taking a college course. you may be able to take a c++ course at the local community college.

 

We start off with Fortran, then move to Java then, followed by C/C++

With ASP and VB along the sides but they aren't degree requirements. How does your university order the classes?

 

Disclaimer: I devolved into complete hacker-mode with this post. If you aren't a hacker, or a wannabe hacker, please do not waste your time reading. I get pretty offensive.

Sounds to me like the program you're in missed the entire point. You're wanting to learn geometry without, first, understanding multiplication.

If you don't know about memory, hardware, and blah blah blah, you are not a programmer. You are, at best, a script kiddy. (Yes, I'm inviting flames here).

Very, very true! But I'm learning that there are a lot of different degrees of thinking like a coder.

More importantly than "thinking like a coder" (I'm thinking, in light of today's events...this will probably change in about 10 minutes) is embracing new knowledge, and trying to incorporate new ways of thinking into your life.

There are "code monkeys" who just crank out tons of code, day in and day out, waiting to retire, because they're too lazy to learn anything new.

There are the people with social skills who were code monkeys just long enough to break away from that and move up the managerial ladder.

And then there are people who truly enjoy staying on the bleeding edge, read geeky blogs while they're eating lunch, understand pointers and sexp's (and such), and really have a passion for writing good code. In my experience, they tend to call themselves hackers (which is very distinct from the way that "the media" uses that particular label).

Not that it's any of my business, but I'll ask anyway. Was it actually Visual Basic (I'm guessing 6.0) or VB.NET? The 2 are pretty much completely different animals.

That seems like an interesting path. I hope it works out well for you!

So don't waste time taking classes. Pick a language (any language), make up a project, and start programming. Learn to use google. That is the single most valuable tool ever invented for a programmer. Well, besides the text editor, and I think that one's arguable

Nice progression. FWIW (like you care), I think this is a good way to go.

I'm going to say "sort of." They're all one big family. But there's a world of difference between C and C#. I work with a guy who learned C, way back when, and now happens to write C code in C#, because he can still get paid for it.

The languages are very similar. The ways of thinking tend to be very different. It's very valuable to learn, and study, all 4 of those languages (along with every other one you can get your hands on). Because expert programmers, in each language, will approach the same problem in different ways.

Learning those differences, and the approaches (and, if you later branch off into other languages...which you should...and learn even more approaches to those problems) from one mind-set, based on that other language, has been (in my experience) a vastly worthwhile situation.

I get a sick kind of twisted pleasure from other programmers walking up to me and saying "Holy shit. I never dreamed that x could be done by y.

I am probably setting myself up for all kinds of bad rep by saying this. But no hacker who's worth a damn gives a flaming fuck up a rat's ass what color your skin is. Either you write good code that does what it's supposed to do, and 6 months later you can go back and make it do new stuff, or you don't.

And, really, what does the opinion of non-hackers matter? They're just around to give us the chance to hack.

Yes! Absolutely! If that does not appeal to you, then go into marketing. On second thought, go into marketing anyway, and do hacking on the side. It doesn't pay as well, but it's a lot more fun.

Have I mentioned that before?

 

I don't know any "great programmers" who became good at programming by simply learning "programming logic and the fundemental basics". If someone can't learn the basics from the languages they intend to learn in the first place, they might as well stick to writing pseudo code. I think learning VB, Alice, or some other unrelated language is just beating around the bush.

Like I said, I learned C as my first language; it wasn't impossible, it just took determination. If Ratman2050 wants to learn "Java, PHP, and C++" he should do it. There's no better way to learn something than to get the opportunity to actually work with it. You can't learn German by learning Spanish.

 

Take the most basic programming course in your local community college, that is how I started.

 

What I meant is, you learn the concepts and ideas behind how programming works, without concentrating on learning one particular language or how that specifically does something.

Take for example a car mechanic just starting out in their career - he (or she!) will learn the concepts and ideas behind how any engine works (e.g. pistons, gear box, spark plugs, fuel pump and how it all links together etc), not just specifically how the engine in a Mercedes C320 (for example) works. Once they know enough about an engine at a general level, they can apply their knowledge to any engine - even ones in lawn mowers or boats or something.

This is what you should try to do with learning to code - learn the concepts (particularly loops, variables, functions, arrays and other basic data structures etc), and not specifically how any one single language does things.

If you follow this technique, it wont matter if you learn old-school Visual Basic first, or if you learn Java first. The skills and knowledge will be applicable to all languages, meaning you can be productive in any of them very quickly.

 

I dont really agree with a lot of what you said, but I felt it was important to refute this point.

With a lot of fashionable modern languages you need essentially zero understanding of how the computer works at a hardware level - they have been specifically designed so this is all abstracted away, and it is why we can have the same code running on all sorts of different machines (not just "typical" computers). Examples are languages like C#, Java, Uniface - even functional things like Haskell. Would you call someone coding in lisp a script kiddie? I severely doubt that anyone who has done anything non-trivial in lisp would ever say that!

Programming in java or c# or uniface or whatever is still programming in java or c# or uniface or whatever even if you don't know what a pointer is for example; the implementation removes the requirement to know what is going on behind the curtain.