How can the Islamic world progress like the West?

Why the lack of democracy and rights? massive press censorship? rights for religious minorities? oppressive laws against gays and women? female genital mutilation? child marriage? honor killings? large rates of illiteracy (The United Nations estimates that the entire number of books translated into Arabic in the past 1,000 years is the same as that translated into Spanish every year).

lack of scientific research?

http://arab-hdr.org/ - arab human development report 2003

Here are three articles on this subject with a quote I that elaborates on the concept of "inshallah-fatalism". Basically it's saying that if you ask God to do everything for you ("inshallah") then you don't try to do it for yourself.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/09/fitzgerald-islam-and-economic-success.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/08/fitzgerald-lack-of-prosperity-in-the-islamic-world.html
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/8724/sec_id/8724


I think there's too much religion and they can only take off with secularism.

 

Another thread against Islam!!! nothing new

Why should Islamic World changed like West?

There are 1 rape in every 2 mint in West and most 1 of 2 is a teenager. check this http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm
You want that Islam world also has this things in their countries? Sorry dude but we can not do this because we had to die one day and ans about over deeds to God

I think you people of web has not read the history of Science. May be you dont know but the first scientist of the world was a Muslims Ibn al Haytham. You guys are now following our inventions, our discoveries etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yuc7EqS_Rk

You talk about lack of democracy and rights? well when west leaders stop taking interested in Islamic world then we will become democrace
you said massive press censorship? give me example?
You said rights for religious minorities? is west giving right to religious minorities?
you said ppressive laws against gays? why should we follow you rather than our own religion? you want that we also leave our religions like west did?
you said female genital mutilation? for this check out the rape rate in west and Islamic world
you said child marriage? for this again check out the rape rate in west and Islamic world


Now we want to build nuclear weapons like the west did. But we can not do this because we know if you try to make any thing for our protection you will killed us, like west dd with Dr. Afia, Iran etc

 

Darpie:

I think the problem is twofold:

1. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Islam is shackled by it's culture of shame, which prevents Muslims from admitting the existence of problems with Islam.

2. The majority of Muslims believe that the Quran must be accepted in it's entirely as literal truth. This effectively prevents Islam from maturing, growing, changing, and adapting to the knowledge of the world that has developed since the seventh century.

These are both very difficult problems to resolve, and in fact the situation may be hopeless.

 

Allowing Muslims access to more information and news media from around the world would actually stop a lot of the nonsense going on.

Because so many lead incredibly sheltered lives they genuinely do believe many of these things are normal, the West is evil, etc. I have spoken to Muslims who honestly believe that in the West there are people all over the place having sex in public!

It's just that they have it shoved down their throats - imagine if you were told your whole life that if you went outside you would not be able to breathe; then you one day found yourself outside, breathing in fresh air.

That's what we need - education and being freely able to get information would help - especially now they will soon be unable to view any websites that are even slightly critical of Islam, or are considered "blasphemous".

On a side note, awins, what will you and menj do if your own website is blocked?

 

There are more Wikipedia entries in Hebrew (6 million speakers) than in Arabic (400 million speakers) - look for it in wiki.
The solution to the problem is reforming/obliterating Islam. It is an intolerant and totalitarian dogma that can not co-exist with pluralism and freedom of speech. No freedom of speech = no science = no progress.
The Islamic golden age of 800 years ago was indeed "Islam", but that was an Islam which is nothing like the brutal ideology that we see today. Its very simple. And its the reason that the Arab/Muslim world is a scientific vacuum.

 

.... White people? Seriously? WHITE PEOPLE?

This is racism - it's not political or religious - you are talking about judging people based purely on the colour of their skin - not their beliefs, not their religion or politics, but on how they look! You stupid, ignorant racist.

Do you also hate black people and Asians? Because I've got news for you, Muslims come in every colour.

Racism is completely wrong and an entirely different thing to religious or political disagreements; even cultural disagreements, because your just saying "I hate white people - the are sick fucking people".

How would you feel if I said "I fucking hate sand niggers. They are all stupid, smelly, ugly scum." *

Judging someone based ONLY on their skin colour makes you the lowest of the low - it's also illegal to promote racial hatred in your country - so be careful; it isn't like it's hard to find you - just takes one person to report you and you're done.

*I absolutely do not hate anyone based on race. I believe no race is better than another, nor worse. This is purely an example of what the asshat said reversed to make a point that racism, in any form, is definitely NOT alright.

 

THE ISLAMIC WORLD WILL NEVER PROGRESS BY KEEPING THEIR OLD WAYS OF THINKING.
A change is needed and it must start with promoting better ideas than those given in the quran. Better morals too.

 

I think you are drunk at this time. I never said anything about racism.
What I am saying is that white people of America (the original people who threw red indians away) they are not hard working any more, this is natural, one generation does the work rest to follow enjoy the benefits, they are enjoying the benefits, playing xbox, spending whole life on internet, fuc**** people, throwing babies in dustbins, drinking beer etc...
Why earn money hard way when they can sit back at home and claim unemployment allowance.
Same goes to UK, they are also white, original UK people are white you have to agree, but the fact is many of the immigrants are not white, they are from all over the world, and those are the hard working people, they earn money hard way, doing PhD, doing engineering, becoming scientists, professors and engineers. Same goes to all other so called developed countries, the development process of these countries is outside the hands of original citizens. All technical skills required are in the hands of immigrants.

So what makes you developed nation? Immigrants, and there is nothing you can do about it, just wait for next 2 decades of chaos when you realize this fact.
Guess what, majority of immigrants are Muslims!!

 

Hardliners in any country, no matter what their culture is based on will continue to perpetuate the old traditions which have kept that particular group in power. Change in any system is always viewed as a bad thing because it disrupts the work done before hand and often requires many new resources in order to re-establish itself in a new way.

Personally I think that you will never really get away from this, however you can always work around it as you have seen with various countries doing trade with one another. That is, Muslim countries with Western countries and so forth. It always comes down to the dollar, no matter if a person is your enemy, if you can make money with them to keep yourself in power, you will.

That's just how the world works.

 

No, you didn't say anything about racism, instead you made a racist remark against white people. Not a political statement, not a religious statement and not a statement about any particular country.

Your racist comments;

If you are going to insult all white people, as you have, because you are a racist - is it OK for me to start calling you a sand nigger?*

*Again, I'd never actually call anyone this. I will not judge people based on the colour of their skin.

 

Oh and on a side note, you claim white people are sick for following human rights.

Yeah - because violating human rights is the right way to go, right?

Oh noez, the evil west is following teh humanz rights! Whatever is we to do?!!?!1!one1!

/doublefacepalm

 

FTR - Even the pro-islam site provided by one of the guys in here conceeds that islamic countries are basically dumps by comparison with the west at present. From http://www.rasoulallah.net/v2/document.aspx?lang=en&doc=8210

Now first, if that's an example of the guys that teach you... you're in real trouble, cause he wouldnt recognize a circular argument if it bit him on the ass. If the islamic countries are dumps comparatively... it cant be because they just arent islamic enough. If that were the case the non-islamic countries would be even bigger dumps. That boy needs a good logic class before they hand him a keyboard... cause he cant argue his way outta a paper bag.

The truth is the islamic countires are not taking advantage of all their potential assets. Looking at the other stats on the site that gave Thegr4 a hardon... you'll notice the US has a 99% literacy rate. Islamic countries apparently dont consider educating the masses a priority. Their overall literacy rates trail the more developed nations terribly.

You'll see the country with the highest number of years in school on average is the US... and again the Islamic countries trail far behind. Once again, we value ALL our citizens, not just some.

Youll see that the illiteracy rates for women in Islamic countries is staggeringly high. In the US the rate for women is the same as the general populace. We have our ENTIRE citizenry prepared for the economic world, not just half.

We dont limit upward mobility and equal civil rights based on religion, gender, sexual preference, etc. Again... Allahs folk are looking for "a few good men"... we otoh bring the entire team to the table by not excluding the ones that arent somebody's favorite color, religion, gender, etc....

When the Islamic countries join the current century and figure out women are their equals (at least) and quit turning away over half the population from the oars when it is time to make their economic boat move... maybe they'll go somewhere. Until then, their ship is anchored in place by the stone of a religion that constantly looks to the past instead of the future. In a male dominated society where both religion and law make half the population second class, they are doomed to delusions of adequacy.

 

Of course if that answer is too cerebral... here's the visual parallel from those great philosophers at The Family Guy:

[video=youtube;YJ0KmyOK_DI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ0KmyOK_DI&feature=related[/video]

 

I just told you the reality, all the white people do this. One who fu*** others without marital relation is called a f*****
Why do you consider it as a racist remark, its a reality of your world. I am not saying others don't do it, black people also are in to this, happens a lot in Africa.

Human rights, killing a person means go to Jail, f*** others and flush babies in toilets, that's OK!
Gay and Lesbian marriage that's OK.

Sick people with sick human rights.

 

So why don't you move back to an Islamic country?

You really shouldn't stay with sick people specially when you are not welcomed.

 

I'm sorry, people who have sex before marriage are called "f******"? What? Fuckers? Fucking? What? /rubs temples - you're an idiot and this makes no sense.

Gay and Lesbian marriage is OK - love is a good thing. Do YOU care what two people do in bed in privacy if no one is hurt? Doesn't that make you a perverted little freak?

You are racist against white people - people in your own country - and are ANGRY that we have human rights here! Go to an Islamic country where you will have no rights, if you hate it so much - because guess what? While you reside in the UK you also have these human rights that you hate so much.

You're a racist piece of trash - nothing more.

Answer the question - how would you feel about being called a "sand nigger"?

 

Oh, you asked what racist marks too - here;

There are white Muslims who you are also insulting with this.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that thegr4 is just trolling. I wonder if he's even Muslim?

 

Someone should call his mother to find out. I DO have pretty cheap international calling....

 

Islam world need not change like West, if they just modernize the religion good enough to provide equal rights to each ir-relevant to the gender it would be the biggest boon for the world.

The main factors which have been constantly in focus have been the ill faded rules such as Sharia, Jihad and so on. When a divorce has a simple procedure in Islam, why can't you ban the remaining ill-customs. We are not in the 18th century and our ideology has to change. When the other leading religions like Hinduism can modernize why can't Islam ? Almost all the religions had ill-customs, its only they changed with the modernization of the world.

No one is against you for worshipping Allah, its only the customs which are barbaric in nature. Women have been pushed for so long as puppets/slaves and its now time for them to gain equal importance as of men. Men and Women are 2 human beings, they are not puppets.

Its disappointing the people who sat down to modernize the religion are critized world wide by the rivals and called traitors.
Lets face the fact, when you can love your pets and your children how can u generate hatred towards others ? If Islam preaches peace and non-violence then its high time you bury the ones who oppose you and make your claim bold in public.

A religion need not be inspired by others, it can be modernized their needs, let the scholars get together and make a positive move.

I dearly hope some day Islam turns into a religion which can really preach peace and love towards all.