How can music be copyright:?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by soapbath, May 30, 2005.

  1. #1
    Hey,

    I have a question.. how can music be copyright? If I am not incorrect numbers can not be copyright (such as 010111011011), and if I am also not incorrect by saying all digital things are made from numbers... how can they say its copyright? Surly soon we shall see sites with Binary code which you compile using a peice of software to download illegal music.

    (confused?)
     
    soapbath, May 30, 2005 IP
  2. noppid

    noppid gunnin' for the quota

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    #2
    The media nor storage format are part of the original composition of the music.

    In the end, you get the music, that's the illegal part.
     
    noppid, May 30, 2005 IP
  3. City2

    City2 Peon

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    #3
    Storing files is still illegal though. Basicly.. many laws dont make sence to the core but you cant fight that in court using that you were listening or just reading binary code.
     
    City2, May 30, 2005 IP
  4. ElectronDon

    ElectronDon Peon

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    #4
    All works of art can be copywritten-
     
    ElectronDon, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  5. SebastianSerg

    SebastianSerg Guest

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    #5
    A very interesting question. Actually the question is about how much music can be copyrighted. As if I take a line from any type of musical art and then complete the song with my personal notes, this will be ok, and noone will be able to sue me, so the question is how much can I take frome sombody's composition ...:)
     
    SebastianSerg, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  6. obenix

    obenix Eats an apple a day......

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    #6
    From John Locke's Natural Rights theory, the expression of an idea (in this case, music), the ownership of that said expression belongs to the author (in this case. singer). Locke basically said that if one labor on a piece land, the crop from that land belongs to the laborer.

    Disclaimer: I'm no ethician..:p
     
    obenix, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  7. noppid

    noppid gunnin' for the quota

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    #7
    I remember a day when if it was suggested that one was stealing, we just stopped it.

    It's a sad society that has progressed to discussion as to how to accomplish said stealing so it don't look like stealing.

    Nothing is sacred, till it's your's that is stolen, then all that circumvention talk go's out the window and it's all mine, how dare "they".

    Go Figure!
     
    noppid, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  8. blackbug

    blackbug Peon

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    #8
    In that case you can say that anything you can capture and store must be free from copyright. After all, it's just numbers.
     
    blackbug, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  9. ForgottenCreature

    ForgottenCreature Notable Member

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    #9
    The music is written on paper somewhere either way. The notes are all there documented on paper. But following this theory couldnt we say that writing is just a ton of small pixels combined to form an image that looks like text?
     
    ForgottenCreature, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  10. nddb

    nddb Peon

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    #10
    soapbath,

    You can infact copyright a string of numbers or letters, i.e. trademark. If my business is called 365designs or something, then you could not very well go around using that name, because it's mine. Sort of the same with music. Just because something can be stored in 1's and 0's does not mean that it is not copyrighted. You can you claim if you bump against me and some of you the molecules of your sweat rubbed against me that I stole your molecules? No... but if I stole your car you could claim I stole your car and I would turn around and claim I just am using a few molecules of yours.

    You're just breaking it down into smaller pieces to avoid the main idea, which is you get something you'd normally have to pay for. The laws for information and data confuse people, because they think it's different than something physical, but to the law it is not.

    Logically you may have an argument, but law is not cold hard facts, there is also the intent and spirit of the law. And that spirit is that you don't get games or music someone else put hours and hours into and expects to be compensated for.

    It's like a scraper who steals your site, they haven't physically taken anything from you, and you can't copyright those bits... have they actually stolen from you? Or would you follow the principle and just let it happen?
     
    nddb, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  11. Art

    Art Peon

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    #11
    Actually, people WILL be able to sue you: http://www.winamp.com/about/article.php?aid=10608
     
    Art, Jun 26, 2005 IP
  12. Design Agent

    Design Agent Peon

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    #12
    The law (in the UK at least - see the Copyright, design and patents act 1988) - and most countries its fairly similar is this:

    Firstly - you dont copyright anything. Anything that is recorded is automatically copyrighted and the rights are owned by whoever recorded the info (except under agreed circumstances - like as a part of your employment etc).

    So it doesnt matter what format you copy the info in, it belongs to someone else. Putting 'copyright 2005 etc only switches the burden of proof.
     
    Design Agent, Jun 26, 2005 IP
  13. SebastianSerg

    SebastianSerg Guest

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    #13
    SebastianSerg, Jun 26, 2005 IP
  14. SebastianSerg

    SebastianSerg Guest

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    #14
    Design Agent - I didn't mean that it is ok to take somebody's composition. Just as I said if I take a line, change the rythm, and add my PERSONAL parts, not made from the original- this will be mine.
     
    SebastianSerg, Jun 26, 2005 IP
  15. Design Agent

    Design Agent Peon

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    #15
    Not 100% right - if I take just nike's logo + not the whole trainer that would make it ok?

    You can not copy the whole or substantial part of someone elses copyright. You are allowed to copy an idea all you want - just not the 'expression' of that idea.

    Really, its based on the judgement of the 'reasonable' man. So were I to be caught adding a song as a backing track to my own holiday videos - I would probably get away with it. But were I to try and sell those videos then its more likely the copyright holders will take offence.

    Recording videos, the radio etc is all actually illegal - though its not illegal to sell the video tapes or the machines that do the recording.

    In your situation it depends on the line.. if its a generic line then you will be fine - if its something that has only really been heard on that 'composition' then you should be careful.
     
    Design Agent, Jun 27, 2005 IP
  16. Art

    Art Peon

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    #16
    Not really.

    As Design Agent just said, even if you sample an aspect of a composition, if it's in some way identifiable (or not, according to the Winamp article), it's illegal and royalties are due to make it legal. Which has resulted in the recent hubbub lately over sampling and whatnot. I know that when I make tracks these days, I have to be extremely careful with where I source material from. Hell, if I wanted to use some obscure sci-fi quote, I'd have to either pay the royalties or record the reading myself OR find something so old, its intellectual property owners are long dead.
     
    Art, Jun 27, 2005 IP
    Design Agent likes this.