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how beta msn works

Discussion in 'Bing' started by Dirkjan, Dec 9, 2004.

  1. #1
    Just posting this in a new topic, as the old MSN topics get quit big and spammed with much real estate replies (goddamn real estate spammers! :))

    MSN important?
    Well, to me as local SEO guy I can say I never really got into it as it was too different than Google, and Google was locally too big, and MSN was only third here (www.ilse.nl is our second, and the results come a lot from the clicks that happen on www.startpagina.nl our local DMOZ.org, so wanna get high in Ilse? Get ur links on startpagina :p)

    The new one however looks quite similar with Google, and thus its possible for me to optimize for both with the same tricks.

    How msn works:
    At least it should be quite similar to Google, as all people who optimized for Google, do good in the new beta (http://beta.search.msn.com)

    - Content.
    Seems as most important to the new beta. So far I see better results in the beta msn on content, than I did in Google. To me it looks like it better goes within the content of the page than Google does, in Google I often had the idea it was only checking the first 100 words, with MSN I have the idea it checks the whole page. Correct me if I am wrong?

    - Backlinks
    Some say its not so important anymore. Well that can easily be tested.
    http://beta.search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=miserable+failure&FORM=QBHP
    Hmm. When we check the thing above, backlinks are still important :)
    SEMrush
    - Anchor text
    Checked this with one of my own pages, anchor text surely is important in the new engine.

    - Tags
    Metatags I dont know, never use them anymore, but MSN probably noticed the title and image tags.

    - Spam
    Havent checked much, but my results seem quite okay.

    - Updates
    About daily I think.

    - % of ppl using it
    Currently enough to optimize already, but I guess it probably will become bigger once they have some good reviews. We all know Microsoft, they wont make something to just let it be small. They definately hate Gmail, they hate Google desktop, they want to hurt Google where it hurts, most: SE. So I bet they will play it hard time when the engine works, for example making it possible to search on the net using MSN messenger, MS Office, or directly from Windows itself on the desktop, using the engine. I expect Google to fight back, but this engine will be big enough to work on.

    Any comments on this post are more than welcome ;) I might be wrong on everything! :D
     
    Dirkjan, Dec 9, 2004 IP
    SEMrush
  2. melfan

    melfan Peon

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    #2
    One thing I like with the MSN is it updates it rankings almost everyday. I got a site from them that was #1 last monday then goes to #4 yesterday then #3 today. Whew :D thats pretty exciting.
     
    melfan, Dec 9, 2004 IP
  3. payoutwindow

    payoutwindow Peon

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    #3
    and now we wait for go live ... and then the fun and games will really begin.
     
    payoutwindow, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  4. Las Vegas Homes

    Las Vegas Homes Guest

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    #4
    Dirkjan lol what do you mean real estate spammers hahaha. IMHO MSN will be launching several new products for the new SE and as you stated Gates doesnt play second fiddle to anyone. I believe google may have bitten off more than they can chew now and their investors are going to pay for it.

    Maybe if google see's this new competition they will make some changes as well. Right now though MSN has the upper hand. Google right now is more about driving money to its investors and MSN is just wanting to drive users to its SE with way better relevant results than google right now.

    Since you mentioned real estate, I have noticed in MSN they are getting rid of the spammy real estate sites that are ranked good in google and either not listing them or rank them very low. In my real estate market there is one site that is ranked #4 in google for primary key phrase but in the new MSN it is on page 8 I believe.
     
    Las Vegas Homes, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  5. ian_ok

    ian_ok Peon

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    #5
    At the moment I love the MSN beta...for one of my sites with my keywords I'm top with the .com and .co.uk version.

    Roll on msn.....just release it sooner rather than later...

    Ian
     
    ian_ok, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  6. SEbasic

    SEbasic Peon

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    #6
    I really think everyone is overestimating the effects that MSN beta will have on your traffic.

    It won't be until LongHorn is released that you might start to see a serious difference.

    By that time, the MSN search should have had a little bit of time to mature it's data, and we will be seeing some VERY different results.

    Yes, I love the results. Everyone loves the results.

    Just don't hold your breath for a drastic change in traffic, because I doubt you'll see it.

    Most of this is dependant on MSN's marketing budget.
     
    SEbasic, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  7. T0PS3O

    T0PS3O Feel Good PLC

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    #7
    I'm sure they get that out of a virtually bottomless pit...
     
    T0PS3O, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  8. SEbasic

    SEbasic Peon

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    #8
    SEbasic, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  9. Design1

    Design1 Active Member

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    #9
    In my opinion I am rather interested in MSN's release of this beta. Not only did i see my site somewhere where it belongs and several other competitors where they should be (yes some of them really do deserve to be at the top ;) while other.. well... ).. But I have noticed that I find it harder and harder to find good quality sites in google anymore. It seems there are sooo many spam sites that make their way to the top. Even if they are just temporary, i find it very annoying. For some of the things i have searched for in the msn beta I have been rather impressed. However, I still use Google although I am not sure why..
     
    Design1, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  10. faremax

    faremax Peon

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    #10
    I don't agree. Those people who never ranked well in Google or Yahoo will see a big change in traffic. Not only that, there are reports that MSN rolled out their Beta version in some places and our web logs confirm it. We started receiving clicks on most important of our keywords from search.msn.com however we are nowhere to be found on the old MSN but #1 on the MSN beta. You can read more about this issue at http://forums.seochat.com/t19247/s.html
    Yes, maybe its monopolistic and stuff however almost everybody uses it starting with Operating system to IE. Microsoft is loosing a very important SE battle to Google and they will put every effort to hurt Google as soon as possible.


     
    faremax, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  11. SEbasic

    SEbasic Peon

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    #11
    I see your point.
    I just don't see the mass market suddenly switching over froom Google until it comes as standars on their OS.

    I have seen the referrals in my logs for MSN beta, but 90% of those referrals I recieved for webmaster related terms. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you are saying about people moving up and down the results.

    It's a different search engine. The results are bound to be different.

    Like I mentioned in my previous post, I love the results.
    Like I also mentioned, those results are bound to mature with age.

    The results we see in feburary (or whenever they are actually going to roll it out fully) - are going to be very different to what we are seing now.

    I know there have been public tests - perhaps that would account for referrals for msn beta for domestic terms. How would the not web savvy-casual internet know what MSN beta was?
    My mum wouldn't and she's is every internet affiliate marketeer's(sp?!?) dream.

    Like I say - I kinda agree but kinda dont.
     
    SEbasic, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  12. faremax

    faremax Peon

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    #12
    That I would have to agree with you. There will be no mass switching from Google to MSN however you made a very intersting point: "Most of this is dependant on MSN's marketing budget". Microsoft can afford to spend on promoting their new MSN as much as Google worth altogether. And again, for those sites that never ranked good on Google this new MSN will bring thousands of new visitors in the very near future. IMO
     
    faremax, Dec 10, 2004 IP
  13. faremax

    faremax Peon

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    #13
    By the way, here are some SE traffic statistics for 2004:

    Google: 41% up from 35.9% in 2003
    Yahoo: 27.40% down from 30.95% in 2003
    MSN: 19.57% about 4% up from 2003

    Data from www.statmarket.com (http://www.statmarket.com/cgi-bin/sm.cgi?sm&press&week_stat).

    Lets take an example of our site. There are on average 1.3Mil/month searches as reported by Overture. Since it reports mostly Yahoo we can safely double that number (at least) for the total monthly searches of about 2.5Mil/month. 20% of that number is 500,000/monthly searches only on MSN. Thas about 16000 searches daily. If you rank in top 3 on the new MSN beta that would translate into huge boost to your sales.
    Yes, I agree that by the time its out of the doghouse there will be some changes but not major ones (IMO) and as new sites added you may slide down in SERPs but during that time you have an opportunity to further improve on your BLs and content. If you play the cards right no matter what comes next you will be ready and greatly rewarded.
     
    faremax, Dec 11, 2004 IP
  14. mrjonman

    mrjonman Peon

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    #14
    Why do you think this is true? LongHorn is the working title for the next generation of Windows, correct? I've heard that's been delayed until late 2005. I'm missing your point about LongHorn affecting MSN search results (please excuse me if I'm having a "blonde moment" :eek: ).

    Also, in spite of the fact that G is THE household name in se traffic right now, I believe that M$ has the ability to extend their name recognition into this arena.

    Regardless, it should be interesting to watch G M & Y slug it out over the next year, eh?

    John
     
    mrjonman, Dec 11, 2004 IP
  15. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #15
    I'll tell ya what I like about the Beta MSN search engine.

    1. search kw "mccoy" we come up NUMBER ONE!
    With Google some some stupid theatre guide at some lame university page (cheesy page at that) by some Ph.D with the name "McCoy" always comes in at number one.. We hang around number 11 (Nigel Tufnel of Spinal Tap "These go to eleven") :)

    I have been trying to figure out for months and months, perhaps years WHY? How? I cannot figure it out. I would love to get our site back up in the top 10 again.. Anyway.

    2. The "Near Me" thing is cool!!!! Wonder why Google did not think of that? eBay used to have that type of feature (similar anyway) but it seems to be gone. Makes it difficult for me in my Corvette search lately.. Still looking for that 78 LT1. Anyway.
     
    Mia, Dec 11, 2004 IP