Honor killing (murder) is accepted in islam

It is not a fault or not. I am trying to understand if you think the countries that claim to follow Sharia and the Qur'an are themselves misreading the book or not. I know the book itself does not say explicitly, which is odd to me, but we know what Mohammed said ... which is interesting since you claim the Qur'an is faultless but it allows people to draw different interpretations and justify them with the book. Vagueness appears to be its specialty. I guess Mohammed didn't understand it when he thought it meant for Muslims to kill Apostates. So, is Mohammed wrong? Does the Qur'an allow for Muslim men to simply leave the religion and face no punishment here on Earth?


Saudi Arabia

"An Apostate will be suppressed three days in prison in order that he may repent ... otherwise, he should be killed, because he has changed his true religion, therefore, there is no use from his living, regardless of being a man or a woman, as Mohammed said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him", narrated by Al-Bukhari"

Egypt

In April 2006, after a court case in Egypt recognized the Bahá'í Faith, members of the clergy convinced the government to appeal the court decision. One member of parliament, Gamal Akl of the opposition Muslim Brotherhood, said the Bahá'ís were infidels who should be killed on the grounds that they had changed their religion.

Are people allow to just dishonor Mohammed and the Qur'an with no punishment? These are the ultimate honor killings in Islam, when one dishonors Mohammed or the Qur'an what punishment should they face or should they be allowed to do it with impunity?

 

like I say you are following radical islam.
That is extreme and changed.
I myself, am a Muslim Shia.
The difference is, we follow the Quran presented by our prophet ok.
Now here is where we divide(were only like 20% of Islam, the other 70-80% are Sunnis + little sects)
The reason on the division, is after the prophet passed, we believe we were told to follow his cousin Ali, while sunnis followed a man eager for power.

Ali is the cousin of the prophet, married his daughter and was born a holly birth inside the Kaaba.
He was also the first person to ever accept Islam as a young boy.
Stories of him bring us closer to Islam, things Sunnis miss out on. He was beyond explanation, this is why there is also a sect of Islam that divided from us Shias, and started to say Ali is God(astagfurallah) just like the Christians.

Truth is, he was just a very powerful man who never sinned once in his life just like the prophet.
To prove his powerful speech -

Four virtues, whoever has them will have the good of this world and the afterworld: honesty of speech, rendering of trusts (being trustworthy), eating from lawful sources, and possessing good manners.

Eloquence is about answering without hesitation and striking (the meaning) without a miss.

Be flexible without being weak, be strong without being violent.

Faith is: patience during difficulty, and thankfulness during prosperity.

If there was another God he would have sent you his prophets/messengers.

Have more trust in a rational enemy than in a stupid friend.

A worshiper without knowledge is like the mill donkey; it rotates but it does not leave its place.

Quran has a splendid exterior and an obscure interior. Its wonders don’t end, its marvels don’t finish, and darkness can only by illuminated by it.

There is no friend for the arrogant.

There are two kinds of people: those who seek but cannot find, and those who found but still want more.

The truth is, those people who come and "blow" themselves up, are merely enemies of us Shias.
They do these things to scare us into going to visit Ali and his families graves. They think they could put fear in us if they slaughter people like that.

Every year, over 19 million Shia Muslims travel to Iraq to go on a week or more walk from once city to another, to pay respect to Ali's son who was beheaded after the prophet's death(he's the prophet's grandson).
Saddam Hussein used to kill anyone who tried to do this walk.
Now that he's out of power, people returned to walking for paying respect to this man(Ali's son)
But now you got terror sponsoring countries such as Saudi, Oman, Qatar etc. who pay people's families for them to stop these things of us Shia worshippers.

 

You seem to have quite a bit of time to post lengthy articles on all manner of things, but no time to weigh in on the subject of 9/11, Mumbai, and the London Trainstation bombers? That must sound quite a bit like denial or avoidance to anyone paying attention. This is how people get the misconception that Muslims in the West are unwilling to speak out against acts of terror committed by people in the name of Islam.

Please. Prove these people wrong.

 

You are not even worth answering bringing up 9/11 buddy.
Go watch your own ex-cia agents, alex jones, david icke, anyone from american who will tell you 9/11 was a pre-invasion to iraq
you are completely unaware of the reality if you still believe muslims bombed the twin towers

especially since 9/11 was in hundreds of things before coming into existence (movies, books, games, comics, shows you name it)
I can provide many examples of things before it happened in 2001 where clear movies or shows tell us they are going to hit it

9/11 was also an attempt at ruining Islam's image which I see obviously worked with a lot of people.

 

Now come at me with something more brilliant mr. obamanation, or else ill ignore you stupid remarks
9/11.. lmao i cant believe some people are still that dumb

My heart goes to those lives lost in the towers because of their stupid leaders

 

And the London Train Station bombings? Also, if you could, the Mubai attacks. Muslims or something else?

 

The very reason that people stereotype Muslims, he is proving with his posts, it is because they never condemn attacks by other Muslims, but instead make excuses or blame others.

The irony is that it is this refusal to even acknowledge the obvious, someone claiming to be a Muslim commits some horrendous crime, is the cause of much stereotyping. Then, they wonder why people think all Muslims support that crap... when they are the cause by refusing to acknowledge or condemn it. Shameful. I would think a Muslim who believed in peace would be a vocal condemner of all the things other Muslims do to make their religion look bad, but instead we get almost universal silence or excuses like these:

I will give him one thing though, he did pass on the opportunity to blame it on Jews. Hope he doesn't get flack for that.

 

London Train Station bombing was a ritual as well. Spoken about by many as well, it was presented in the Beijing Olympics
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/61906/London_2012_7_7_Olympics_Sacrifice_Ritual/

And it's Mumbai not Mubai first of all,
SECOND, why take these bombings and ignore the ones that occur in Iraq, Syria and all Middle Eastern countries on a daily basis?
How come the Media doesnt portray the innocent killings of Shia Muslims at the hands of these extremist so called "Al Qaeda' whom are simply a paid terrorist organization arranged and organized by the CIA and rich Gulf Countries

Keep it coming, interesting to learn how people think still

 

It's funny how every time you ask something, and I provide my theories, you lash out at them. What has you so upset with me? What don't you understand? I'm telling you my people(Shias) are mainly the targets of these so called Muslim bombings. I don't even call them Muslims for what they do, is that simple enough for you? Blowing themselves up is a WAHHABI movement. A sect of Islam(EVEN THOUGH NO ONE SUPPORTS THIS) which was made by a rich powerful man named Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. He taught Saudis and other Gulf countries these outrageous things we see today. I stick to my word, Muslims are supposed to be peaceful human beings who rely on a day when we are to meet with our lord and be punished for all our sins. So why would we want to commit even a SINGLE little sin when we think like that? We don't. It's the ones who have given in to this worldly life, money, women, power etc.

We are the oppressed ones. Thats why we are the targets, because we fight with words, not weapons.
Iranian revolution is what Im talking about. Not these wanna-be revolutions in the Middle East now, claiming they are peaceful but they rape and torture women and children.
These are radical forms of Islam, not the real Islam. So argue with me about real Islam

 

That is classic. Thank you.

 

A ritual? Does that mean Muslim, or non-Muslim?

Yes yes, but was it Muslim sponsored violence or not?

Sorry, I didn't want to leave the impression I was forgetting about those. So in Iraq and Syria there were hundreds of thousands of people who murdered for their differing religious ideology, or what the media referred to as "Sectarian violence". Were they Muslims, or something else?

By the way, I only ask these questions because, like you, I want to figure out who exactly it is that is doing such a good job at smearing the reputation of Muslims worldwide.

So what you are saying is ProfDesigns is the type of person smearing Islam he is complaining about, or as Obama would say, "We are the ones we have been waiting for!" Can it be so? Does hiding the fact your spouse robs banks for a living make you complicit in bank robbery?

 

Oh, I get that plainly. What is odd to me is that you agree Muslims attack you, but then mock and deny that Muslims attacked Americans or England or India anywhere else. It is like, you see only yourself as a victim of Muslims but deny everyone else.

We both agree that Muslims are killing people, especially other Muslims, but you write off the killings of Americans and others to silly conspiracy theories. It is this duplicity that I am bothered by.

As for peaceful respectful versions of Islam, you are not really pointing to Iran as the good model are you? The people there very well may be peaceful, but the revolution and who it has maintained in power is anything but.

 

I am not quite sure his angle. It seems he is a religious bigot against anyone who doesn't believe his particular brand of Islam (Shias), so he is willing to bad mouth those other "Muslims" but not really, because he still blames 9-11 on someone else and thinks it was just a ploy to make Islam look bad.

You mean as in reaping the benefits while knowingly denying the source - yeah, that would be complicity.

 

They are not Muslims if they act with aggression and violence. SO YOU COULD SAFELY SAY ITS NOT ISLAMIC, therefore it could only be sponsored by radicals and morons who think they are doing something right.
Such as the great king of fart here

He is a man who will rot in hell for all that hes done and will do. He sponsors terrorists and oks them to attack and kill innocent Muslims who don't follow his beliefs.
They are not Muslims when the toast and drink alcohol





These are not Muslims
And Saddam Hussein targeted us Shias, that was his main point of power.
He targeted us in Iraq, and even attacked Kuwait and Iran to try and eliminate us. By the power of God, we are not extinct, we almost went extinct many times though
But they can never destroy the actual path of the Prophet and his family which we follow

Simple words I tell you brothers(even though you may all hate me)
We are not after violence
We are not after power
We are not after money
We are not after women

We are simply after achieving success in this world and to die happy and not ignorant, denying his signs.
We are peaceful, loving and enjoy discussing with our neighbours who is right and who is not.
We don't get mad for you trying to prove your point, we try to prove our own points too.
If we can consult and discuss things like normal humans, I'm in for it until this thread gets closed
Just dont try to embarrass me or lash at me because of moronic actions other "SO CALLED" Muslims do.
I'm telling you I separate from those people, they are not of me, and I am not of them.
They are kafirs (non-believers) who assume they can die and go meet 72 virgins in Heaven. These types of things were invented after the prophet passed many years after.
Please bare with me with patience and I will answer all your questions accordingly and accurately. ANY QUESTION you want to ask me, please do, but dont be biased is all I ask.
I will even argue with Christians and Jewish worshipers if they really want to, I will provide proof from My guiding book The Quran, and your own books(bible).
ANYONE WHO WANTS TO, I'M IN FOR IT
You will find that I won't change my words or go back on them, and you will find no fault in my words as long as I quote my source The Quran

Thank you

 

It was meant as a rhetorical question, but stating the obvious answer was perhaps useful for the uninitiated. I'm no legal expert, but I'm fairly certain that one does not have to reap any benefit from a crime to be considered complicit if one aides in the cover up.

My curiousity is piqued on this subject as well. Is Shia the only true form of Islam? If so, what shall we call the other 90% of those currently calling themselves Muslims?

 

To simplify the answer without confusion, no it is not the ONLY proper form of Islam. Islam is based on 5 pillars.
1) Declaring there is ONLY ONE GOD and Muhammed is his final Messenger
2) Paying Zakat(Charity for the needy)
3) Praying 5 times a day/prostration
4) Fasting During Ramathan
5) Read the Quran and visit the Holly Kaaba(House of God) once before dying to clean yourself of all sins

If you follow these rules you are a Muslim by definition but then there are some who follow these, and then commit adultery, drink, gamble etc.
These are forbidden.
Shia Islam is the true Islamic Faith. We believe the Prophet taught Ali (peace be upon them both), everything he knew himself.
So 1) Ali did not speak out of his own will 2) We have hadiths(sayings) where the prophet would tell his people to follow Ali as a guide once hes passed. Most Muslims deny this, hence the Quranic verse:

And those who disbelieved say, "Why has a sign not been sent down to him from his Lord?" You are only a warner(Muhammed), and for every people is a guide.
This is where Muslims fell off. The guide who we were told to follow, simply like Jesus and his 12 disciples. Muhammed (pbuh) chose 12 after him too, but men eager for power changed it.
Ali didn't receive leadership until 5 men took it after the prophet. We Shias say he should of been the first following his children.

 

Good to know. So by this definition, the Ahmadiyya are also good Muslims.

Well wait a minute. You just provided me a definition of a Muslim, and then immediately followed it with a caveat. Are these others Muslim or not? Take Muqtada al Sadr, for instance. Here is a Shia cleric who organized thousands of Muslims in Iraq into the Mehdi army, engaged in sectarian violence against the Sunni minority. Is a Musim who kills other Muslims still a Muslim? Are the self proclaimed Muslims who committed the London Train STation bombing, or the Mumbai attack,or the Bali Bombing, or the 9-11 attacks, or those Palestinians who cheered at the news of the 9-11 murders of thousands of innocent people, are they all Muslims, or something else?

It seems you have to pick one or the other. If you say these people are Muslims, even if you claim they are a violent and sinning sect of Islam, then you are saying that the reputation problem for Islam is coming from Muslims themselves. If you say these people are not Muslims, please, tell me. What shall we call them?

 

Iranian revolution??? What revolution, many of the people who participated in the change of regime on Khomaini side were CIA agents. The change was necessary because the Shah was a week and sick person so they needed a new regime to avoid a civil war when he dies. Your ideal regime is suppressing its own people. There are more hookers in Tehran right now than Thailand. People are poor and hardly surviving and the minimum wage is half of what is considered the poverty line while your Shia leaders have billions in foreign banks. Normal workers earn about $200 /month (those who have a work) while the children of your religious people drive cars that cost around $800,000 due to all the taxes which they have on car imports.

 

Lmfao at the funniest thing I've ready my whole life. The CIA helped Khomeini ahahahahahahahahahahaha
When the whole world expelled him and he wasn't allowed to go to any country after he was in Iraq except France let him for four months or so before he won the revolution in Iran where millions were waiting for him to return
Please, I seek to argue with intelligent people, not people who speak out their friggen asses
Khomeini changed all of Iran and kicked out the Shah where as they declared Iran as an Islamic country, and it's running based on his laws UNTIL today.
So go bring me more garbage for me to expose you in front of your peers on this community
Btw, the Iranian president himself lives in one of the poorest neighbourhoods in Iran, with no bed, while his wife packs him a lunch everyday as he drives to work in his old piece of s*it vehicle he has. THIS IS THE PRESIDENT

&& Obamanation your post is ridiculous, I told you what Muslims must to to be called Muslims. Then I tell you that some "so-called" Muslims, think they are still Muslims after following the five pillars but then committing forbidden sins, that is not a Muslim.
You cant pray 5 times a day then go get drunk at night, your doing wrong.

Therefore if you live off the 5 pillars and dont cause harm, violence or anything ridiculous then u have nothing to worry about
Again, weak arguments, why cant more intelligent people come debate with me

 

Terrific. This leaves us with only a few problems.

1) What do we call all these people who call themselves Muslim but who, according to you, are not Muslims based on their love of violence,murder, mayhem, and the slaughter of other Muslims?

2) How do we fix the reputation of Islam when so many of the people committing these horrible acts say they are doing so as an act of Islamic Jihad? These are clearly the people smearing Islam. How do we get them to stop smearing Islam?


On a different topic, one specifically to Shia Islam, what is with the Iranian Shia clerics who tell us sex with a goat is not haram? Also, what is with the temporary marriages being used in Iranian jails to allow prostitution and rape? Sex with animals, prostitution, and rape seem very much against the Qur'an yet these activities are being supported by Shia clerics.