You checked out of this thread a long time ago when you danced a little too close to bigotry fueled support for terrorism. Like I wrote. Cowardly.
Ariel Sharon (the Butcher of Beirut) was committing crimes against humanity long before Hamas moved into Gaza. Disarm Hamas, and some other group will rise. The problem isn't the groups, it's the land dispute and generations of ethnic violence. Even taking the weapons away, won't remove the hate or impetus for terrorism. Both sides have to be willing to lay down weapons, stop attacking civilians, and work out the border issues, without the meddling of 3rd parties.
You want to stop the meddling. KEEP IRAN out of Gaza...keep Iran from funding Hamas and delivering Iranian styled rockets. That is a great idea. Why is Iran in Gaza anyways? Why is Iran supplying Hamas with missiles. Excellent idea. I'd keep Iran out of Gaza. That would quickly leave Hamas weaponless/moneyless/and without resources. I'm sure the 1.5 million citizens would be happy to work out a peace settlement and get on with their lives. Guerilla: Its very strange that you would copy what I wrote and delete the part about Hamas disarming Fatah security people, STRIPPING THEM and shooting them in the head. What's the matter, that part of history doesn't sit with your perspective?
As usual guerilla, you are a hypocrite. You proclaim how fair and just you are when dealing with people. How you do not judge people as members of groups, but as individuals. Yet, you and gworld accuse me of being "part of Israel 5th column in USA". That you two morons seriously believe that everyone supporting Israel is somehow an Israeli spy committing treason is too funny. (yes gworld accused me of treason and being an Israeli spy.) You and gworld with your near hysterical fear of Jews, and anyone who supports them, is really kind of amusing if it weren't so pathetic. You guys got me. I confess: When I was born I was issued a US social security card, a Israeli decoder ring, and the Jewish manual on how I am supposed to vote and think for the rest of my life. You guys are on to me.
Woops! Look like you got me! I must be a sympathizer! Honestly Earl, you post a lot of run-on mindless crap, and my response was only relevant to the beginning and end of your post. The boilerplate blather you fill most posts with, does absolutely nothing for me.
I can't speak for gworld, but this statement ^^ as it pertains to me, just highlights the paranoia that gets projected on anyone who speaks against Israel. I'm not afraid of Jews, I have no problem with Jews, and I find you amusing AND pathetic for thinking that the opposite is the case. Jews != Israel. Israel 5th column != Jews. Remember your canary in a coalmine post? Remember my response?
I can't figure out why the Palestinian people elect terrorists to represent them and subject themselves to such misery. Hamas can not control their urges and not a day goes by that they do not fire rockets or sent suicide attackers against Israel. The Germans suffered millions of dead including women and children due to their election of the Nazis.
So you can accuse me of being an Israeli spy and part of the 5th column, but I can't call you and gworld on it? Get over yourself. You two accuse anyone who supports Israel of all sorts of associations they don't have. I have pointed out this prejudice and bias. And guess what, in spite of your protest, I think you hate Jews and Israel. This part is too funny. But you and gworld can accuse anyone speaking for Israel of being part of a 5th column and accuse me of treason. You are doing the exact thing you complain of. Seriously, do you not think people are paying attention?
palestanians have to take a lot of responsibility for themselves. they need to accept they have lost and must take a bad deal so they do not have to be in a 100 year war and with that lose generations. look how many people live in hong kong you just have to build taller buildings. and palestanians do not need to be an agricultural society they can live on tourism alone. also at this time when there is a peace process on the table the interest of the palestanians is in pursue of this process. they need to be in contact with hamas and informing them about the process of the talks so they can be involved and discuss their reservations so they can support the end result. and maybe they can be brought in later. there is a good solution for every hard issues. you just have to pass the bickering
well let me explain it to you like this at the time US and Israel were saying that they can not deal with fatah because they are crooks and forced the palestanians to include hamas in their election. it seems that they did as they were told
i do not know if you remember or not. as soon as the hamas came to power and the cutting of aid hamas leaders went to iran and Iranians promised them a lot of money but they refused and said that they do not want to be a tool of iranians. but i guess they became desperate. any jow how long do you think this plan is going to work 100 years jews have lived in ME for 5000 years
The usual tactics here.... this time the bigotry card. This is because you don't know what islamists are? I guess I am a bigot - I don't like hatred and evil, death or destruction, killing or murder and since someone lives that kind of life and I don't like it I am a bigot. OK. Reminds me of this commercial (radio) that when a little kid was playing in the street and the caring neighbor went to the house and told the mom she got all mad at him for being narrow-minded and a bigot.
And when did I do this? Of course you do. Because no one can question Israel. Folks who share your line of reasoning love to paint anyone who questions Israel as a Jew hater. It's easier than constructing an argument or gathering proof. Just make an accusation and discredit your opponent. Like "winning" on a technicality. I never accused you of treason. And I didn't accuse "anyone". gworld made a comment, which I didn't think was meant to be taken literally, and I agreed with it. You are definitely a hyper Israel defender, even when it extends beyond all reason. You see enemies for Israel that aren't there, and conflate criticism of Israeli policy as smoldering hate for Jews. I think you are paying so much attention, you're starting to see things that aren't there.
No, because you refused to define Islamists. My definition says that any Muslim who is politically active is an Islamist. Which could and likely does include most adult Muslims in the ME. You think genocide or forced famine is acceptable against civilians as "self induced misery"? You keep referring to them as "they". Which you explained are "those who want death", which you now refer to as "Islamists". You do realize that the majority of Palestinians are innocent civilians, regular folks who receive just as misery from Israel as Hamas deals to Israeli citizens? This is no white horse, black horse cowboy scenario. It's a brutal cycle of killing, and your continued insistence that the Muslims are wholly to blame is either ignorant, or bigotry.
When you agreed with it, you took that position. You chose to make a post to go out of your way agree with his comment about me. Now you want to make a qualification, that it was not literal, that is fine, you can say whatever you want. We both know how you feel.
Your continued insistence that both sides are equally to blame is equally ignorant. I do not think, nor have I ever said, that I think all Palestinians are bad or evil. I think they deserve peace and freedom and have no problem with that, in fact I have always supported that notion. However, the idea that Hamas and Israel are doing the same thing is not only a lie, it is intellectually dishonest and you know it. Hamas intentionally kills civilians as its goal. Do you think Israel wanted dead kids as the result of its Gaza action last week? Do you think they would prefer more dead kids or fewer? Do you think they wanted to get the Hamas rocket positions and supplies? Or do you think they want to kill babies and children?
Do you really think, that the Israelis did not know that there would be civilian casualties? How do you explain forced famine? Is that not expected to hurt civilians? The definition of terrorism that I think is accurate, is violence against civilians, for or by political agenda. Israel certainly fits the bill for terrorism, as does Hamas. Both have conducted their share of atrocities. I will leave it up to you to document all of them, and figure out who is ahead and who is behind in the race to be the most evil.
That was a mistake. The Hamas charter states: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
They knew innocents might be killed and were forced to make a tough decision. Do we keep allowing Hamas to fire missiles at our citizens or do we defend ourselves. What complicates this decision is the fact that Hamas fires on Israel from civilian areas and hides its weapons there as well. I think Israel moved on gaza in spite of the fact their might be casualties because they were left with no real options to stop the missile attacks. I think Hamas purposely targets innocent civilians. I think Hamas purposely fires on Israel from civilian areas knowing that either (1) Israel will responds and might kill civilians which is good for international PR, or (2) Israel might hold off attacking for fear of hitting innocent civilians. Either way, Hamas views it as a good tatic - and you seem to agree. You keep giving Hamas a pass and make accusations about Israel. You are not neutral. You are not merely advocating the US not support Israel. You actively argue on the side of Hamas. That is something you have to live with and rationalize. and you forgot to address these: Do you think Israel wanted dead kids as the result of its Gaza action last week? Do you think Israel would prefer more dead kids or fewer? Do you think Israel wanted to get the Hamas rocket positions and supplies? Do you think Israel want to kill babies and children?