Thank you, Devil. I'm afraid Kalvin and I have gone around on many subjects - evolution, my own (then) buddhist practice, respecting other people's faiths - and we never get anywhere. Ultimately, it is senseless, as is all argument over these things. I have a tough time just letting be, generally, and this is exactly what the Japanese call my shugyo - my own spiritual struggle - to leave things be. Thanks for the nod, though.
THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR. MANY ARE JUST IGNORANT ON THIS MATTER. THANKS FOR SHEDDING SOME LIGHT. WHY THIS IS NOT BANED IN USA, BECAUSE IT'S THE MAIN BOOK OF KKK. WHITE SUPREMACIST, AKA CHRISTIANS(OF COURSE, NOT ALL CHRISTIANS.). TEXAS IS A GOOD STATE FOR THESE. JUST WATCH BORAT AS HE GOES HUNTING WITH THE OLD TEXAS IDIOT. YOU GET THE PICTURE. THERE ARE LOT OF IDIOTS IN THE SOUTH. PS: I always wondered why Hitler invaded Russia, rather than UK. Now, I know why.
Cupid, can you do us a favor, and turn off the bold, all caps? If you would really like to know more about this, I'd suggest you ignore all of us and go read the history yourself. My short: Alstar was right about Hitler not founding the party. He merely took a foundering organization and built it to what it would become; hence, in my mind, he "founded it" for all practical purposes and intents, but I did take liberty. Its roots actually stretch back to the late 19th century. The occult ideal wasn't really Hitler's bag as much as it was Himmler's and the higher coattail-hangers on of the SS. Hitler lost the war because he didn't read enough of his cherished subject, history - and blew the timing and thrust of the Russian campaign. A two front campaign, with or without Japan's help; Russian winter, winter thaw - Napoleon, anyone? Even then, he was within reach of Moscow and split his armies into three, to get southern warm fields. He blew it. Alstar mentions both "good" and "bad" outcomes to the war. I'm curious what was good, what was bad in his mind. He did try to rid Europe of Jewry, but did not succeed, as my wife's existence attests.
Bold and all caps??? Is someone blind here? Gworld still won't read it, and not because the letters are big enough OK! kkk - white supremacy is not Christian in any way, shape or form. They only claim certain parts of the Bible to try and back up their hate for the Jews, yet without any clue to what the Bible says. So stop trying to link kkk with Christianity, because the two are opposing. Or should I bold and capitalize that to help you understand?
Whoops! I have to admit my eyes glazed over at THIS IS WHAT I .... and I didn't get too far in. Uh, yeah. Agreed. Cupid, before tackling history, maybe you want to just sit in a quiet place for awhile?
Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not religious. The end goal for all of them was the destruction of all religion because its "bad." 10's of millions have died in the quest to purge religion from the world. The reason they failed was because evil is stupid and "religion is bad" is a stupid and ignorant thing to believe and fortunately the vast majority of people realize this. The only reason any religion survived in Russia was because Stalin disobeyed Lenin's wishes and spared the Orthodox church. Although he still murdered many members of that church. Calling religion "bad" is just as tolerant and enlightened as calling Jews bad. Or politics "bad" or morality "bad." The only way that religion could be considered bad is because it has "forced" atheists to murder so many people.
OK, I tried. No one has made the claim that Hitler and company were religious. I said that in promulgating a "one way" solution for man, they were making a religion - a religion with themselves at the throne, but a religion nonetheless. I find that dangerous. Hitler & company, as I've said now, ad nauseum, fall in that category. Or, in other words, I honor your right to believe as you do. With one chance at life, I'd like to do everything I can to make my existence worthwhile. I would like to contribute something of worth to my fellow man, before I turn to sod. Happy in this one existence, I would like to learn all I can, more than preach what I don't know. *** Tolerance? Wha? Why yes, yes, I do think of Jesus, at least from what I have read of him, as full of love, and it is not your "blah blah blah"; it is central to his message. Or, from the Apostle Paul, I think you are in torment, Kalvin. I am genuinely sorry for you.
i have two questions 1-is there a psychological evaluation as to why the Germans followed him? 2-why didn't the jews fight?
Answers, from my experience: 1. Yes, there have been dozens, if not hundreds, of studies. I flatly conclude there was nothing unique about the Germans of that time (or any time) that makes them predisposed to a Hitler. The most convincing studies I have seen dismiss any notion of a "national-ethnic" tendency to fascism, much less a "Germanic" tendency. Perhaps in this vein, the Milgram Experiment - Submission to Authority is helpful. The sad news is that we are, all of us, predisposed to "following." Other theories that I think help explain how the nation that spawned Goethe could also embrace Hitler include Hannah Arendt's Banality of Evil and the theory of the small step - namely, when any one person feels little involvement in the Great Evil - say, by only reporting to the local authorities they "saw their neighbor come home later than usual last night," then only the top guns feel any ownership over the evil. But lots of these little steps add up to a great evil, such as the Holocaust. At any rate, yep, lots of studies. 2. I think much the same thing took place here. In other words, all people are intrinsically the same. We are predisposed to follow authority - even en masse, so long as the authority skillfully isolates and makes the "transition" a concentrated, organized machine. Where there are chinks in the armor - such as happened in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising or Sobibor- you will see a very different picture.
It sounds like you picking and choosing between different parts of Bible, the "old part" which is according to you is not relevant anymore and other parts which you use as a proof for any kind of hatred that your preacher has told you is OK to have for right now.
If your unemployed and bankrupt your likely to follow anyone who offers a way out and a bit of pride. As mentioned above, The Jews did fight - read about the Polish Ghetto uprising and the mass escape from the Treblinka (Sobibor) concentration camp. Many who escaped fought for partisan groups and in traditional armies.
The Versailles Treaty was one of the most shortsighted pieces of "metaphysical abstractions," to use Edmund Burke's words, to ever be put to paper. We were going to be damn sure we destroyed Germany for what it had wrought. Wilson and company had an almost messianic zeal to punish Germany, and punish her they did. Had we an ounce more smarts on board, we might have had a nation more like Macarthur's Japan at the end of WWII rather than the breeding grounds for Hitler's message that we created by the draconian measures imposed in 1919. I also blame the social democrats (SPD). They refused to build a coalition with the KPD, on ideological grounds. Hitler stepped in and, for a time at least, went to bed with communists to vanquish the democratic socialists. Building on the argument with my friend KalvinB, another lessons in absolutes, in my mind. Never stand on ceremony if something good can be accomplished (or something bad prevented), in this world.
The treaty is an over rated cause of the war. The V. treaty was no more severe than the Brest-Livtosk treaty Germany sought to impose on Russia. Hitler did away with most of the treaty, but despite it being negated he still went to war.
Perhaps because it is not? It's a best seller in the middle east. We both know why, don't we? Countries not banning a book has nothing to do with it being a best seller in middle east countries. I wonder what Salmon Rushdie would say? Prejudice means to pre-judge. Using the "all" card for victimhood status doesn't really work well these days.
http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,1515288,00.html As your good friend Toopac has proved in this thread Is this not pre-judging all Asian Muslims?
A hot item is a hot item. A best seller is a best seller. I do appreciate you helping me make that point. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html 005.051 - 52 SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. When you seek racism and bigotry, it will be revealed
I agree that this is a hotly debated topic, but my conclusions differ from yours. The Brest-Litovsk Treaty was nothing like the Versailles Treaty - while territorial cessions and reparations were a part of both, the reparations imposed on Russia by Germany was something on the order of 6 billion marks, while the allied powers imposed on Germany a war reparations bill of 130-something billion marks - in others words, over 20 times the "damages" bill. It was a disastrous move. You mention that Hitler ignored the treaty, and we all went on to war. I stated earlier that without the severe impositions in place, the climate might not have been made right for a Hitler to gain any traction in the first place, and the call "we got screwed,!" and the sense of betrayal after the optimism of Wilson's 14 points, might have just been made a hollow wind. I would also point you, again, to Macarthur's response to post-war Japan. Cooptation, not destruction - it's cheaper in the long run.
Your statements are true however, in the treaty of Brest-Litovsk, Russia lost 9/10 of it's coal fields and half of the industry - as well as huge amounts of land. In Versailles, Germany on lost 16% of it's coal industry and the Saar region was to be returned to Germany after 15 years as a League of Nations mandate. The huge reparations placed on Germany were based on the huge damage in France where most of the fighting was done. Also, the Dawes and Young plans meant that the reparations were reduced and mainly written off by the US. Therefore, Versailles was seen as less harsh than Brest-Litovsk. I do agree that the TofV was a catalyst and a long term cause to Hitler rising to power. However, the pressure of the brown shirts, the great depression and Hitler's skill as a public speaker were also major factors.
Instead of trying to dodge fact, just accept that Mein Kampf was popular in Poland (for a strange reason) and move on. You have already been told about your mis-interpretations of the Koran. Do I have to direct you to these in the Bible Isn't this the same thing? Killing people because they oppose the Jewish religion?