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Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by jrbiz, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. #1
    HillaryvsTrump.jpg
    SEMrush
    It is amusing to hear the "holier than thou" low information voters (and others who will not be able to vote) to piously intone that they could "never" vote for Trump due to things he has said, for the most part. Billary was just recently under CRIMINAL investigation by the FBI. Yes, they broomed it due to pressure from the Obama thugocracy (just like the IRS targeted conservative groups under Obama's orders), but how in the world can anyone who claims to be about good government prefer someone who is proven corrupt, is responsible for lost lives, and has sold our her office regularly over a businessman, with flaws as all people have, who has built a successful business and calls things as he sees them? These Hillary backers are disgusting, only interested in power, and should be reviled for wanting to put a corrupt person in this most important office.
     
    jrbiz, Oct 1, 2016 IP
    SEMrush
  2. wordplucker

    wordplucker Well-Known Member

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    #2
    In all fairness you seem to be missing a lot on Trump's side.

    If it were only something like that it might be one thing, but, you seem to have your head buried in FB meme's to think this way.

    Ironically it is not low information voters that think Trump is not the person to be POTUS. Even several mega donors that have been pro GOP since they could vote are backing Clinton, since they know what a Trump presidency would do.

    He lost a lot of people that I know in the import/export business, that rely on NAFTA, with his anti NAFTA talk. Many are bringing US made products back home, mainly vehicles.

    Try not to be deluded too much, look at his "charity" issues, look at his Nixon-esque tax returns(Remember, Nixon was not a crook either?), look at his inability to control himself on national stage... There are many reasons not to vote for Trump, and every one of them has been on display for a year.

    Clinton has no halo, no person running for POTUS has had, but your image is pure bullshit of a mindless drone that watches too much FOXNews and listens and reads to too much from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, and Ann Coulter.

    I have not read the list on Clinton, but, I am going to guess that it is the same trumped up BS that has been dis proven, debunked, and rated a falsehood that has been circulated on FB for a year.

    I expect to be slammed, but, please, make it original.
     
    wordplucker, Oct 1, 2016 IP
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  3. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #3
    This one statement, of course, proves my point. :)
     
    jrbiz, Oct 1, 2016 IP
  4. billzo

    billzo Well-Known Member

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    #4
    Those are "estabalishment" Republicans and that is what Trump is running against. Trump has the support of the people, and that is what matters, not the mega donors, President Bush, etc.

    If a Republican doesn't support Trump, their option would be to cast a vote for President. Publicly declaring support for Hillary Clinton is declaring support for illegal immigrants and all the felonies she committed, her smear campaigns against women who made accusations against her husband, and much more. The only thing the first President Bush has done is tarnish himself in the eyes of real Republican voters.

    Just because a wealthy former president protected for live by the Secret Service is not going to have to worry about terrorism, the national debt, etc., does not mean the rest of us are immune from those things.


    True. Trump is completely wrong on foreign trade. Businesses are moving their headquarters overseas and their jobs overseas for a reason (Democrat taxes and unions). Still, that issue is something that can be worked out. Ford, Chrysler, and General Motors all announced this year they were moving most or all of their passenger vehicle manufacturing to Mexico. That leaves them only producing higher-profit SUVs in America. And when gas prices go back up, SUV sales will drop, and I wouldn't be surprised if those jobs go overseas as well.

    GM and Chrysler went bankrupt and Ford almost went bankrupt but prevented that by mortgaging itself to the hilt--even borrowing against its blue oval trademark. The unions bankrupted those companies and those unions are again doing what they did before: demanding more money.

    Trump's "charity issues" are laughable. The money went to charity and the city where he built his resort or whatever it was was extorting money out of him because a flag pole was too high. That's an absolute joke.

    You have not seen his tax returns. The IRS has. The IRS is the only party that needs to see them. Have you ever done your own tax return? If so, you know how complex it can be. Determining what is and is not a qualified expense, how to handle accruals, etc., can be disputed with the IRS for years and year. And sometimes the IRS loses in court.

    And would you be interested in seeing Trump's personal tax return or his corporate tax returns or what? Because some corporate CEOs pay themselves a ridiculously low wage (like Warren Buffett) and Trump may or may not do the same. Regardless, if he did do what Buffett does, he would be instantly accused of "not paying his fair share" by the left, which is absurd.

    The IRS has highly-trained auditors scouring his tax return looking for any way to squeeze more money out of him. If the IRS can find a way to squeeze more money out of Trump, they will do it. You need not be concerned about that. It is typical for wealthy people to be audited each and every year and if Trump's tax return is indeed 12,000 pages as his son said it was, it will take a very long time for the IRS to go audit it and at this point the return is subject to change and irrelevant as it has not been settled.

    That doesn't matter. What the media reports about Trump is usually exaggerated or outright false. The news media says that Trump says things which he doesn't actually say. And even after Trump clarifies the issue (such as his stance on illegal immigrants which the news media falsely claimed he backtracked on), they still lie about what Trump says (continuing to say he has backtracked on illegal immigration).

    There is no such thing as a perfect presidential candidate nor perfect human being.

    The audiences of those people you mention are more highly educated, more informed, and have higher incomes than the average Hillary Clinton supporter.

    Slammed? No. Refuted, yes. And no, none of the stuff about Hillary has been "trumped up". Hillary committed multiple felonies and she got off where another person would have been prosecuted. She's a proven liar, and lies to cover up her prior lies. She was the one who waged smear attacks against women who made accusations against her husband. She's a fraud who goes on the lecture circuit for $275,000 per one-hour speech and then tells the audience that "income inequality" and "wealth inequality" are bad and must be eliminated.

    Donald Trump may be a jackass, but Barack Obama is a jackass who buried the nation in $9 trillion more debt, lied about health insurance costs going down when he knew they would go up if his plan became law, released illegal immigrants from federal custody (when he is legally required to deport them) who would go on to commit murder (over 120 murders at last count) and other crimes, took the side of criminals over police thus encouraging more crime, refuses to enforce laws he doesn't like, blames everybody else for his failures like a child would do, and lied about everything all along.

    Donald Trump may say things that "offend" people, but Barack Obama has hurt real people. Millions of them.
     
    billzo, Oct 1, 2016 IP
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  5. mmerlinn

    mmerlinn Notable Member

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    #5
    Looks to me that you are SCARED SHITLESS that you MIGHT be proven wrong.

    If you cannot or will not PROVE to us that you are correct, there is NO reason that we should believe anything that you say. You MAY be correct, but unless/until you bite the bullet and SHOW your detractors WHERE they are wrong, you are nothing more than another mouth-breathing idiot.
     
    mmerlinn, Oct 1, 2016 IP
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  6. wordplucker

    wordplucker Well-Known Member

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    #6
    lol, you all are too funny.
    Am I caught in a skit?

    I did not read the list since it will have rehashed things on it. It is all about the Benghazi? Email? The Foundation? and all the rest of the rehashed items? Does one really need to re read such drivel? It proves that I have read it all before, nothing more.

    How can one say that the media has blown things out of whack when it is on national TV for all to see? Or Twitter?
    This is what really confuses me on his supporters, how can you ignore what is plainly visible?

    This election is worse than the inventor of the internet v. the second one. But, from what I have seen of Trump on stage and how he tweets, Trump would be worse than a war startin' second edition.

    Everything is rigged against him, including himself.

    I think he will be an awful President, but, I do hope he gets elected, since it will drive more people back to IM and I will make more money yet.
    Just like the last GOP pres did with the economic crash in 08. I know a lot of people think that was Clinton's doing, but the rubber stamped mortgage's that failed were, for the most part, 2004 and later. Much like the Wells Fargo gig recently, should that be blamed on Clinton too? Or, Clinton's to make it so both B and H are hit by it.
    This gave Bush II years to "fix" what ever may have been broken, but, appraently it wasn't broken, just not exploited enough....

    I know that you think it is low info voters are all for Clinton II, but, sadly it is quite the opposite.

    Anyway, if Don is elected and the US goes the way of Rome, only some of us will get wealthier, and that is okay with me, as I like to make money, lol.
    And if he does not, that also creates opportunities that are just as lucrative.

    Anyway, my point is that Saint Trump would suck far more than Saint Clinton, but, I do not think he is going to win, since people are pulling the Mitt Romney with unskewed polls. I remember how well that worked out. Romney did indeed have his 47% though, which shows extreme foresight on his part, he just had it backward on only 47% of Americans would want to throw their country away.

    It is sad that you can not recognize that Trump has more than one line and keeping ourselves from seeing him imploding on national TV, without the media doing anything but showing it, or on Twitter as he nose dives off the deep end.
     
    wordplucker, Oct 1, 2016 IP
  7. wordplucker

    wordplucker Well-Known Member

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    #7
    MM, I never asked to be corrected on Clinton's list, I did ask that you correct your thinking on Trump only having that issue when there are so many more that you turn a blind eye too.

    Pull your head out of the sand and look around a bit.

    You are unable to see the things Trump as done, so pointing them out to you leaves a narrow-minded individual like you unable to comprehend that he is a screwed up person and should not have gotten as far as he has.

    His picture and the Tebow helmet he possesses that his 'charity' bought, the Trump Uni. scandal, the paying off Bonds in FL to not go after him....
    That is just three, that are outstanding issues, yet, you will scream it is the media...
     
    wordplucker, Oct 1, 2016 IP
  8. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #8
    Whose deaths have Trump been responsible for?
    What political offices has Trump sold access to Wall Street financiers and Middle East dictators?
    What Top Secret documents has Trump mishandled?
    What Middle East countries like Iraq, Libya, or Syria has Trump destabilized?

    The above are just some of the serious issues that one of the candidates would prefer not to talk about and, instead, try to distract low info voters and other mindless liberals with silly issues about how Trump grew his successful businesses.
     
    jrbiz, Oct 1, 2016 IP
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  9. wordplucker

    wordplucker Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Okay, so you are only focusing on public office items, not the overall character?

    Trump has an equal number of items, such as importing undocumented construction workers, then not paying them, his successful bankruptcies, all 6?, and more.

    Not seeing that your saint is as flawed as the other sides saint shows a complete and total lack of info, and a willingness to be narrow-minded.

    Trump U is just one of his success stories, reminds me of Nevarc and his great businesses... If anyone catches that ref let me know, lol.

    Now, as to a business man running the country like a business, well, the fair people of Michigan, and Flint in particular, shows that that should not happen. Bush I did a pretty good job, he did not run it as a business, and he founded Zapata Corporation. If Trump did not have such thin skin he might be a Bush I, but I doubt he would even be as good as Bush II, which was a sorry let down from his dad.

    He will be an awful POTUS, end of story.
     
    wordplucker, Oct 1, 2016 IP
  10. billzo

    billzo Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Trump did this? Prove it. You don't think the CEO actually runs the day to day operations of hiring day laborers, do you? Show me where Trump was recruiting and interviewing laborers and had full knowledge they were "undocumented".

    I have never heard of any billionaire or millionaire CEO interviewing day laborers.

    Nobody said Trump is perfect. Nobody claims him to be a saint. And unlike Hillary, he's not promising to give people free stuff to buy votes.

    If you knew anything about business, you would know that every business has successes and failures, and loses money from time to time. As far as Trump U, Trump doesn't pass laws to steal people's money like Democrats do. Everybody who went to Trump U did so of their own free will. If they didn't want to spend the money, they could have gotten up and left at any time. Try getting up and leaving if the IRS summons you to an audit. You'll go to jail.

    You will find plenty of four-year university students unhappy with their "education" when they cannot find a job and have $50,000 or more of student loan debt to pay off.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/heres-why-so-many-college-grads-are-unhappy/

    You will find unhappy people at every university, even "Trump U". And if you read about Trump U, you will see that Trump had very little--if anything--to do with its day to day operations including its high-pressure sales tactics some sales people used on some customers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University

    Nobody was force to attend the free seminars, nobody was forced to enroll in the $1,495 additional seminars nor pay $35,000 for the "gold elite program". Nobody.

    If somebody has $35,000 to spend, they would be better off buying houses and flipping them then working their way up from there.

    Flint was bankrupted by Democrat politicians. As were several other cities and the entire state of California is heading that direction as well.
     
    billzo, Oct 1, 2016 IP
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  11. wordplucker

    wordplucker Well-Known Member

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    #11
    You and a guy named Jon in TX through out the same arguments, and they are the same flawed ideas and methods. He will not see the forest through the trees either.

    Wiki, the source of all goodness?

    Read up on the business like activities that the Michigan GOP Gov did to Flint's water after he used a law that the Michigan people struck down, and he and the GOP remade, that subverts the will of the people's vote in order to push what HE thinks is right.
    With that type of law on the books at the federal level Obama could have stepped in to Jindal's Louisiana and Brownback's Kansas that are both run in to the ground... Michigan does not need a voter ID law, the GOP will appoint someone over them if they wish it seems, even after the Michigan people told the GOP lawmakers that they did not want it on the books.
    That seems to be a self serving party there....

    If people were led astray and they were parted with their money, then it is a crime, much like ITT Tech that closed it's doors, due to leading people astray and lying to them on how peachy life would be after going there. Trump U and ITT Tech possibly used the same tactics, and, if so, committed a crime. Saying that they weren't "forced" is a cop out on people accepting personal responsibility for their actions, which the right is supposed to be all about. You want Clinton to own up to her errors, why not having shoes on both feet and having him too?

    Someone also mentioned that I am a liberal, a bit maybe, but, I do not recall once defending Clinton, so I seem to fail at being a "libtard".

    I see plenty of faults in both, but unlike some, I do not pass the buck around thinking that one or the other is a saint by avoiding them having their hands in things that are messed up. My whole point was the flawed mess that is Trump and one line not covering it. If you believe that then you are a low information voter that is only basing life on ideology spoon fed by FOXNews, Rush Limbaugh, and the others mentioned.

    Well, this is the same round and round I have faced far to often with zealots that loves their preferred politician, both on the left and the right, as I am a centrist and dislike both, so I am not going to be watching this thread anymore and wasting my time. I have more important things to do, like making my financial buffer between me and stupid politicians bigger and thicker, so no matter who is making laws I am as safe as possible.
     
    wordplucker, Oct 2, 2016 IP
  12. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #12
    LOL, oh really? :rolleyes:
     
    jrbiz, Oct 2, 2016 IP
  13. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #13
    BTW, the above thread is illustrative vis-a-vis my original post. When low information voters, mindless liberals, and the government elites are forced to reconcile their distaste for what Trumps "says" versus the illegal, unethical, and criminal "actions" of Clinton, they are forced to call their opponents names, ridicule them, etc. They will often also admit that they do not care for either candidate and try to twist themselves into a pretzel to give moral equivalence to nasty words from Trump versus 30 years of nasty actions by Hillary. These two "nasty" histories are not equally "bad" and those who proclaim them to be should be ashamed of themselves.
     
    jrbiz, Oct 2, 2016 IP
  14. billzo

    billzo Well-Known Member

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    #14
    Precisely. The liberal left and news media are trying to tarnish Trump to make him equivalent to Hillary. They claim he "raped" his wife, which was not true. A bogus lawsuit by an anonymous woman was filed against Trump (and dismissed by the judge) claiming he tied her to a bed and raped her when she was 13. Who is the rapist in this Presidential election? Hillary Clinton's husband Bill. So they are trying to make Trump "equally bad" to Bill. (Besides, Trump has dated and married very beautiful women and does not need to tie anyone to a bed, unless the woman is into that.)

    It's sad. The latest New York Times story about Trump's 1995 loss says he "could have" legally avoided paying taxes for 18 years, but other than pure speculation, has no evidence one way or the other. Yet low information dunces walk away saying "Trump didn't pay taxes for 20 years". It's all over social media today, people are dumb enough to believe it.

    Trump U is nothing. His 1995 tax return (which the NYT had no right to publish information about) is nothing. You know those real estate investment infomercials or those motivational speaking seminars held in arenas where they sell books, audio tapes, and courses? Nobody is required to attend those things and if you do attend them, nobody is required to buy anything.

    Trump may be a jackass, but compared to Hillary Clinton and Bill, he's squeaky clean.
     
    billzo, Oct 2, 2016 IP
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  15. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #15
    Are the Clinton's people of character? Or Obama?
     
    grpaul, Oct 3, 2016 IP
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  16. mmerlinn

    mmerlinn Notable Member

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    #16
    Depends on WHOSE definition of CHARACTER that you use.

    Regardless, they, along with numerous others, are characters out to destroy America, whether they admit to it or not.

    Unfortunately, we are past the point of no return without a miracle. Trump may THINK he can make America great again, and he may even try should he get the chance, but one man CANNOT turn America on a dime. The real problem is the dumbing down of the American people over the last hundred years, and no one can force the population to reverse their slide into ignorance.
     
    mmerlinn, Oct 3, 2016 IP
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  17. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #17
    It is not just ignorance; we may have also passed the tipping point in the "makers versus takers" battle. Once a majority of the country are either working for or taking benefits from the government, they will have the ability in the voting booth to ensure that things continue down this forlorn path. When Obama won re-election in 2012, despite his horrible performance the first four years, I began to worry that we had, in fact, hit the tipping point of no return. What the takers do not realize (or care about for that matter) is that, as Margaret Thatcher once said, the trouble with ever-expanding government socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money and then socialism falls apart. We are seeing this happen, on a small scale, in Venezuela right now.
     
    jrbiz, Oct 3, 2016 IP
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  18. billzo

    billzo Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Correct. No able-bodied person on welfare, and there are millions, is going to vote to give up their free obama phones or their free health insurance or food stamps or anything. And this is also why Democrats are hellbent on importing as many poor immigrants as possible and making them citizens as quickly as possible.

    More corporations shifted their headquarters overseas under Obama than any other president. The entire American auto industry is shifting jobs to Mexico. And those Democrats know their policies and high taxes are causing this and their only solution proposed is even more taxes and harmful mandates.

    The Democratic Party is intent on turning American into a third-world, bankrupt country. Hillary vows to continue Obama's "progress" of massive health insurance price increases and massive borrowing and spending to buy votes and all their dumb voters can do is applaud and shriek with joy.

    If those able-bodied Democrat voters in Chicago were working instead of collecting welfare benefits, maybe they wouldn't be out shooting and killing so many of each other. We see how much their lives matter to them every day. And this is Obama's hometown and where Hillary Clinton was born and it has seen the sharpest rise in violence and murder since Obama started making heroes out of criminals killed by police.

    Summer violence continues into October: 46 shot in Chicago over weekend

    If the Democratic Party had its way, every community in America would be like that.

    And that's from the hometown of the president of the United States of America. It is as much of a disgrace as he is.
     
    billzo, Oct 3, 2016 IP
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  19. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #19
    Is somebody who avoids paying billions in tax considered a taker or a giver?
     
    Bushranger, Oct 4, 2016 IP
  20. jrbiz

    jrbiz Illustrious Member

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    #20
    That's simple. Anyone who gets to that level in business (where you have the ability to make and lose billions in various tax years) is a maker in a big way. Silly to even ask the question.
     
    jrbiz, Oct 4, 2016 IP