HELP!!! eBay wants my website....

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by sergei, Apr 2, 2006.

  1. #1
    Hi! My name is Sergei Matusevich and I'm the owner of www.paypaltalks.com
    A couple days ago I'v got e-mail from eBay:


    We are writing concerning your registration of the domain name paypaltalks.com which contains

    the PayPal trademark.

    As you know, PayPal is the leading provider of online payment services. PayPal adopted the name and

    trademark "PayPal" in October 1999 and since that time,
    PayPal has actively used the PayPal name and trademark in connection with its online payment and

    related services, including maintaining the web site
    www.PayPal.com. PayPal has devoted substantial resources to promote its services under the PayPal

    mark and logo, and those trademarks embody the substantial
    goodwill that PayPal has earned as a result of providing high quality services. In addition to its

    own promotional efforts, PayPal has been the subject of
    numerous unsolicited articles in the media, including national and international print, radio and

    television media highlighting PayPal's pioneering and
    successful efforts in online payments. As a result of PayPal's promotional efforts and the high

    quality services that PayPal provides, the PayPal trademark
    is famous, well known, and viewed favorably by the general publi
    c. PayPal is a wholy-owned subsidiary of eBay Inc. Accordingly, eBay owns exclusive trademark

    rights to the PayPal name and trademark in the United States
    and internationally, including related common law rights.

    We are concerned that your registration of paypaltalks.com will cause confusion as to whether you

    or your company's activities are authorized, endorsed or
    sponsored by PayPal or eBay. As we hope you can understand, protection of its trademarks is very

    important to eBay.

    We understand that you may have registered paypaltalks.com without full knowledge of the law in

    this area. Your registration of the above domain name
    violates the Lanham Act (15 U.S.C. 1051 et seq.), because it infringes and dilutes the PayPal

    trademark. Infringement occurs when a third party's use of
    another's trademark (or a confusingly similar variation thereof) is likely to confuse consumers as

    to the affiliation, sponsorship or endorsement of the
    third party's services. Trademark dilution occurs when a third party's use of a variation of

    another's trademark is likely to lessen the distinctiveness of
    that famous trademark. Additionally, the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act

    (http://www.submerged-ideas.com/litigation/anticybersquat.htm) provides
    for serious penalties (up to $100,000 per domain name) against persons who use, sell, or offer for

    sale a domain name that infringes or dilutes another's
    trademark.

    While eBay respects your right of expression and your desire to conduct business on the Internet,

    eBay must enforce its own rights in order to protect its
    valuable trademarks. For these reasons, and to avoid consumer confusion, eBay must insist that you

    not make any future use of the domain name. You should
    not sell, offer to sell, or transfer the domain name to a third party and should let the domain

    registration expire. You should also not register any other
    domain names that infringe the famous PayPal or eBay trademarks.

    Please respond to this email and confirm that you will agree to resolve this matter as requested.

    If we do not receive confirmation from you that you will
    comply with our request, we will have no choice but to pursue all available remedies against you.

    Sincerely,

    Edith
    eBay Legal Department


    And here is my answer:

    Hello, Edith!

    1. Take a look at the following links first.
    http://paypaltalks.com/index.php(read the message on the top of the page)
    http://paypaltalks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=21#21

    Thanks.

    2. Before I register this name I asked permission of your staff. Here is one of the letters from

    your support:
    "Thank you for interest in PayPal. Unfortunately, I am unable to assist you.
    If you would like to contact our Marketing team by mail, I have provided
    our mailing address below.

    Send mail to:

    PayPal
    P.O. Box 45950
    Omaha, NE 68145

    It has been my pleasure to assist you with your questions. Your
    satisfaction and experience with PayPal are very important. You may receive
    a survey from our third party vendor, Benchmark Portal and we would
    appreciate any feedback you can provide.

    Sincerely,
    Deidre
    PayPal Business Support
    PayPal, an eBay Company"

    After that I sent about 3 letters to differen departments of PayPal and I didn't get any answers.

    After what I had a conversation with one of my lawyers about this domain registration. And we found

    out that domain names like "googletalk, ebaytalk, paypaltalk, msntalk, paypalsucks.com,

    paypalwarning.com, www.aboutpaypal.org, www.paypalshoppingcart.org, www.paypalhacks.com...and so on

    " ok with you, then the domain paypaltalks.com will be ok eather... That is what my lawyer said.

    I understand that protection of trademarks is very important to eBay and I fully agree with you.

    If it is really neccessary, I will let this domain go. But our main purpose was - promotion of your

    business. I think that is really important for you now, when google is working on their GOOGLEBase

    payment system which is gonna be your competitor for sure!

    At the same time paypalsucks.com has the second position in google.com...I think it would be much

    more better if our website will take second position?? If you don't agree with that - it means that

    you don't care of your company's interests and just wasting money of your company loosing

    customers.

    Befor your letter I thought that PayPal would appreciate our business and interested in promoting

    it's business and was going ask you about support and partnership.



    But if you still want us to let this domain name get expiered - just remember, that it was your

    support's fault that we regestered this domain name, spent a lot of money on the website and it's

    promotion... If it's necessary I would show you all e-mails that we sent to you and The answers

    that we got from you! You was ok with this domain name registration...


    Thank you!

    --
    Best regards,
    Sergei Matusevich



    And After that they just didn't answer... What Its better do now?? Just keep working on this website, or let this domain name die???


    Thanks.
     
    sergei, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  2. iowadawg

    iowadawg Prominent Member

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    #2
    Someone else wanting to take a trademarked name as a domain name, just because it is available.

    I would let it die.
     
    iowadawg, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  3. aaron_nimocks

    aaron_nimocks Im kind of a big deal Staff

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    #3
    I would not go head to head with eBay.

    What I would do is make a new site and do a 301 redirect to the new site off the old. Let that run for like a month or so and then take down the domain.
     
    aaron_nimocks, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  4. mdvaldosta

    mdvaldosta Peon

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    #4
    Aaron gives good advice, ultimately whether you asked them or not - without their expressed written consent then you will no doubt loose. You've got freedom of speech, but using their trademarked name in your domain name is trademark infringment.

    Make another site that doesn't use the paypal name, then you can do what you want.
     
    mdvaldosta, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  5. sergei

    sergei Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Thanks, guys.
    But the thing is that before register this domain name I asked their permission... I don't wanna play with eBay, but...


    Actually not a big deal to buy another domain name.:) Thanks, everybody!!!
     
    sergei, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  6. iowadawg

    iowadawg Prominent Member

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    #6
    Offline world, you can not open a restaurant and call it
    McDonald's Restaurant by the Sea
    Without MickeyD coming after your butt!

    Or naming a new drink, Jack Daniels Green Drunk.

    Just because a name is available to register does not mean it can or should be.

    The big companies on the internet do protect their investments in their names and will have an army of lawyers go after your butt for using a trademarked name.

    All they have to do is do a search for their name and up pops all the possible websites for them to check out.
     
    iowadawg, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  7. sergei

    sergei Well-Known Member

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    #7
    aaron_nimocks, thanks for advice. I already bought another domain name "moneyfrom.net"...:)
     
    sergei, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  8. surfer8

    surfer8 Peon

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    #8
    Ignore them for now. Wait until they send you a postal mail cease and decist letter. Don't take an email as an official statement, it will not hold up in court. They are just trying to save themselves money by mailing you that canned emailed first. I doubt a real person even looked at your site yet; just a robot scanning for keywords "paypal" and emailing a threatening letter.

    Of course, if you do get an official cease & decist, then consider moving to another domain with a redirect. Until then, why not send out a press release? People love reading this "corporate monster attacks little guy" stuff.
     
    surfer8, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  9. sergei

    sergei Well-Known Member

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    #9
    surfer8, Thanks a lot! You right! I just don't wanna get myself in a trouble. I had the same situation with domain name ipb.name, I was talking to IPS by phone and after 20 or 30 phone calls they said OK. -))

    Thank you, surfer, again!
     
    sergei, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  10. SonicReducer

    SonicReducer Peon

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    #10
    As someone who recently had a company even larger than Ebay come after me for a domain, it's probably best to just cut your losses and give it to them. It's just not worth putting any effort into it, because 99% of the time they will win anyways.
     
    SonicReducer, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  11. sergei

    sergei Well-Known Member

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    #11
    sonicreducer, of course they will win! :) I know that. But what the point?? They don't care about paypalsucks.com, at the same time they going to fight with me??
     
    sergei, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  12. joeychgo

    joeychgo Notable Member

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    #12
    Not necessarily.


    According to the Arb Forum (http://www.arb-forum.com/domains/) - who is in charge of handling domain disputes for ICAAN -


    Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy

    Applicable Disputes. You are required to submit to a mandatory administrative proceeding in the event that a third party (a "complainant") asserts to the applicable Provider, in compliance with the Rules of Procedure, that
    (i) your domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and
    (ii) you have no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and
    (iii) your domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.
    In the administrative proceeding, the complainant must prove that each of these three elements are present.


    ALL 3 HAVE TO BE PROVEN.

    I wouldnt worry unless they can prove all three.

    So a little research and if they fight you, defend yourself, yourself. not with a lawyer. It costs you nothing. And really, if you can show that all three elements are not there then you ahve a decent chance. DO NOT OFFER TO SELL THE DOMAIN TO THEM. That is evidence of bad faith. If they offer to buy then you can negotiate, but do not offer first.


    Ive been sued, defended myself, and won this same kind of case. (they even quoted some of my DP posts in their pleadings)
     
    joeychgo, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  13. sergei

    sergei Well-Known Member

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    #13
    joechgo, they can prove just the firs statement for sure. Thank you!!!
     
    sergei, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  14. joeychgo

    joeychgo Notable Member

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    #14
    They have to prove ALL THREE.

    Yes, they can prove 1 - but only you know if the others can be proven. Dont monetize the site. Dont try to make money off their name. Paypalsucks gets away with it because its a consumer conplaint site. You should be fine. Read the information in the links I posted, and just follow the instructions for responding to a complaint if they follow one. Its not that hard really.
     
    joeychgo, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  15. sergei

    sergei Well-Known Member

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    #15
    joeychgo, Thanks a lot for your advices!!!!!
     
    sergei, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  16. cyclone2k

    cyclone2k Active Member

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    #16
    Well, they really don't care. They have their staff who are paid for sending notices. Later, when you send a reply, he maybe shifted to some other post or so. So, it can take ages for real action by paypal or so.
     
    cyclone2k, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  17. sergei

    sergei Well-Known Member

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    #17
    cyclone2k, Look, the thing is that the lady that sent me a letter, she is just doing her job, I think, and she didn't even take a look at the website... I don't know what they gonna say me in their reply, but I will post it on this forum...

    Thank you!
     
    sergei, Apr 2, 2006 IP
  18. sergei

    sergei Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Check it out:

    http://paypalsucks.com/domain-name-disputes.shtml
    :confused:
     
    sergei, Apr 3, 2006 IP
  19. Five Star Forums

    Five Star Forums Peon

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    #19
    very intersting subject, make sure to keep updating us at things progress.
     
    Five Star Forums, Apr 3, 2006 IP
  20. tomecki

    tomecki Peon

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    #20
    But if they want this domain very much why not to sell this domain? Everything goes around the money so they should do it. It is cheaper than sue somebody. BTW they dont want to have a bad reputation in media.
     
    tomecki, Apr 3, 2006 IP