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Hell Real ? Big Warning of a lifetime

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by dess71, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #21
    Hell is real and here. Having to share the world with billions of people who are afraid of thinking by themselves.
    SEMrush
     
    cientificoloco, Jun 19, 2012 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Grimm

    Grimm Peon

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    #22
    One of the worst propaganda so far.

    You're better off convincing yourself that there are people who doesn't think, believe and have the same faith as you do. Come hell or high water, people will still believe what they want to believe.
     
    Grimm, Jun 20, 2012 IP
  3. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #23
    What if it isn't and you have wasted your one and only life being terrified of a lie?

    You don't know that at all. All you have is a book that has unknown authors CLAIMING that he said this, that or the other. You can't even supply objective, verifiable evidence that your man-god Jesus even existed much less what he said or didn't say.

    Wrong! Ancient mythology is littered with 'man-gods' that raised people from the dead, healed the sick and performed other miracles. The Christian man-god is just a copy of those that preceded him.

    What about all the Muslims that know Allah 'personally' or all the Hindus that know Brahma 'personally'??

    Your 'intention' is very clear my friend. It is to frighten gullible people into believing what you think is 'truth'.


    I repeat. Not one single word in the Bible is claimed to have been written by any 'Jesus'. The Bible is just claims from people that never met any Jesus (40 - 100 years after the alleged events) that Jesus said something.

    Yes....that's the odd thing about Christianity isn't it. One can be a murdering rapist all one's life but if one repents and accepts your man-god one get an eternity of bliss in 'heaven'. Yet anyone that spends a lifetime helping the poor and needy and behaving 'Christ-like' yet does not believe in your man-god, will suffer an eternity of suffering.

    Ah right! The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true huh? So I assume you also believe that the Qur'an is true because the Qur'an says it's true and the Guru Granth Sahib is true because IT says it's true?

    Caca de vaca!

    Do you accept the stories of the followers of many other religions who claim to have 'died', come back to life that claim to have seen and talked to their gods? Do you accept their claims? Of course you don't...and why, because you were born in a Christian country and probably raised by Christian parents and adopted the predominate religion of the country in which you were born and raised. Had you been born and raised in India of Hindu parents you would be on here proclaiming the 'truth' of the Vedas and telling us about your 'relationship' with Krishna.

    No, Hell is a figment of the human imagination.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
    pladecalvo, Jun 23, 2012 IP
  4. dess71

    dess71 Well-Known Member

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    #24
    pladecalvo, you tried to explain why whatever I said is wrong. Okay Okay firstly I am in no way trying to terrify people. Nope. But after an encounter with Jesus, people usually say how dare you not tell me about Jesus? A friend of mine said that to me. The Bible also warns us to preach the Gospel to all. This is my idea.

    I know everything you mentioned here. But let me say this. God is not going to negotiate with us or He will not try to explain things to us in such a way as you reasoned out. No! And let me add this. You will never know Him unless he reveals himself to you. That is the main point. The Bible clearly states that in Mat 11: 27 "No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." But if you seek Him, you will find Him!

    And whoever comes in contact with Him, will be totally transformed. You can check every account in the Bible (or stories of our time) where men met God and everyone of them were changed. They also couldn't stand his glory. Most of them fall to the ground like a dead man. I know that unless you see you will not believe. You may get a chance of experiencing this one day then remember what I told you here. If we have a heart of seeking to know the truth He will reveal himself to us.

    Even Atheists witnessed His deity. Search youtube. there are some videos there.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez45halb0bo
     
    dess71, Jun 23, 2012 IP
  5. Mikaël2

    Mikaël2 Member

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    #25
    You have been programmed and conditioned. Learn about your unholy bible, it contains inconsistencies and contradictions, why would God send us an imperfect book, is he not perfect ?

    Bible Contradictions:


    How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

    (a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

    (b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

    Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

    (a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

    (b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

    What was the exact wording on the cross?

    (a) “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37)

    (b) “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26)

    (c) “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38)

    (d) “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19)

    Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

    (a) Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)

    (b) No. (John 12:27)

    You must go into the details. The devil is in the details. Question everything, don't just believe what your minister at the church told you.
     
    Mikaël2, Jun 23, 2012 IP
  6. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #26
    Of course you are. That's why you keep claiming that people that don't believe as you do are going to end up in 'Hell'. That's why people like you terrorize children into believing that the devil will come and get them if they don't say their prayers to your invisible deity.

    You didn't address my questions about people from other religions that claim to have had an encounter with THEIR gods. In fact you didn't address any question I asked you...you just carried on preaching!

    My friend.....quoting the Bible to an atheist is about as useful as having a barber shop on the steps of the guillotine. I don't believe the Bible is true. If I did, we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?

    Now, how say you about all the people of other religions that claim to have died, seen their god and then returned to life?
    How say you regarding all the other religious texts of other religions that claim to be the truth?

    I'd wager that I've read the Bible more than you. I have also read the Qur'an, the Guru Granth Sahib, The Egyptian Book Of The Dead and many of the Vedas. Can you say the same? Although I'm atheist, I am fascinated as to why seemingly intelligent people living in the 21st century still cling desperately to ancient mythology.

    Perhaps you should check the accounts in the sacred texts of other religions and read about where Hindus, Muslims and many others of different faiths to yours, met gods and everyone of them were changed.....or are you going to tell me that all other religions are false.

    Do you agree that if you had been born in India, you would be here telling us about how good Brahma, extolling the virtues of Krishna and telling us about the 'truth' found in the Vedas??


    So what? What about the Christians that have converted to Islam or Hinduism? Does that mean that Allah and Brahma are real? What about the Christians that have de-converted and are now atheist? Is that proof that atheism is true? You seem to be claiming that because an atheist converts to Christianity then that is proof of your god. Please tell us why, when Christians convert to Islam, it isn't proof that Islam is true.

    There is a forum called "Debunking Christianity". This forum was set up and is being run by ex-Christians. There are many members there who were one convinced that Jesus really did exist. Many were once ministers of religion, priests, even professional Bible apologists. All of them now are now atheist. Do you think that this is solid proof that atheism is true in the same way that you think that atheists converting to Christianity is solid proof that Christianity is true and if not, why not?

    Please note the 'question marks' in my post. They denote that I require an answer from you...not yet more preaching.
     
    pladecalvo, Jun 23, 2012 IP
  7. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #27
    Why do adverts appear in the middle of my posts??
     
    pladecalvo, Jun 23, 2012 IP
  8. dess71

    dess71 Well-Known Member

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    #28
    You said that I am terrifying people into believing what I believe. That is not the case. How can I show you my heart. But my intention was to simply give anybody to learn about the afterlife - where they would spend eternity.


    I haven't seen any such video or written material but I can see that there may be instances of such things. Again my quotes are from the Bible. "Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." which means they might have seen the devil! If what they saw contradicts what is revealed in the Bible. I know you are saying inside "no quotes from the Bible just reason out" But that is what I should do based on my faith. The scriptures have more weight in the christian life than any other testimony.

    You said Mythology! do you not know that the incidents in the Bible are proven even by science If not all. Also the Bible is the oldest book of religion known to man and it is the number one saler of all time. And as I said before, The miracles Jesus did were witnesses that he came from above because NO ONE I mean no one in the face of the world raised anyone from the dead. Because he said that He is the resurrection.

    That may or may not be. Because you know what? as you are reasoning now while you still are born in a christian family shows that anyone can have his own opinion regardless of his birth place.

    That is what we call retreat I think. Or doubts of your faith. Everyone can have it. Even John the baptist has it. Of course it can not be proof of the truth.

    In closing I would like to say that we may not come into terms as everyone posts his own belief. But I want to add one more thing. You know what everyone has questions. The pastor has his own question. The believer also has his own questions. No one can have all the answers about the spiritual or this world. There are many mysteries of this world. Scientists are trying to "figure out" everything but they obviously can't.

    So in the spiritual realm also we can have questions. But we should know that not everything is revealed to us. Yet the main thing is revealed which is the sinfullness of man and how he can be saved through Jesus Christ. Also this verse "But if you don't believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things?" shows that WE are in short of understanding that if all is revealed our mind will blow up. Believe me you can't handle it if all is revealed to you. So we are told only what is necessary.
     
    dess71, Jun 24, 2012 IP
  9. dess71

    dess71 Well-Known Member

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    #29
    I was trying to quote from your post by selecting and clicking the quotes icon but I couldn't. Don't know what I missed.
     
    dess71, Jun 24, 2012 IP
  10. ishaqjude

    ishaqjude Member

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    #30
    Here is my response to this post:

    Here is what Christ said about him:
    "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" (John 7:16)

    For Salvation, Worship the one and only true God that sent Jesus. Jesus has NEVER said to worship him.

    Ishaq.
     
    ishaqjude, Jun 24, 2012 IP
  11. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #31
    Yes it is the case. You are telling people that, unless they believe as you do, they are going to spend 'eternity' in a terrifying and painful place. Look at your OP where you say... "Whoever went there and came back is in short of words to tell the warning. Because it is so terrifying and painful experience." How are you not trying to frighten people by telling them that they are going to spend eternity undergoing a "terrifying and painful experience?

    Now you are just being silly and sucking up the nonsense you have been fed by your pastor and your apologist websites. Let me destroy your claim with just a few Bible instances that have been proven incorrect.

    No Genesis creation.
    I'll take it for granted that you are a Young-Earth Creationist, yet the verifiable scientific evidence shows that Earth is old. Humanity is much more than 6000 years old (old cave paintings and suchlike prove this), and we evolved from (other) apes, being closely related to chimpanzees ( as proven by the hominid fossil record, DNA, endogenous retroviruses, pseudogenes etc).

    No Noachian Flood.
    The survival of Egypt's "Old Kingdom". The written records of the Egyptian, Chinese and other Mesopotamian civilisations, the total lack of all the massive geological evidence that a recent worldwide inundation would inevitably leave behind (massive run off channels, massive water erosion, total disruption of Greenland and Antarctic ice-sheet layers, and so forth) prove to us that there was never any global flood.

    No Tower of Babel There is no evidence in ANY civilisation that there was once a time when every civilisation on Earth spoke the same language. There also isn't a scrap of verifiable evidence that indicates a post-Babel "confusion of languages" towards the end of the second millennium BCE (the alleged time of Babel).

    No Exodus.
    No trace of the movement of several million people through the Sinai desert, no trace of their supposed encampment at Kadesh Barnea for many years. Two million people wandering around the desert for forty years leave SOME trace. They also tend to get noticed by other neighbouring countries who tend to mention it in their history. No other nation mentions it at all.

    No Conquest of Canaan.
    The Hebrews are Canaanite. Their language evolved from Canaanite (after the alleged Exodus), and their religion evolved from Canaanite polytheism. We know this from Canaanite records (notably the Ugaritic texts).

    No "Golden Age" of Solomon.
    This "great empire" was never mentioned in the records of other surrounding civilizations. It is only mentioned in the Bible. Don't you think that at least one other nation might have noticed this great empire?

    Failure of Ezekiel's "Tyre Prophecy".
    Ezekiel falsely predicted that Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon would take and permanently destroy Tyre. But Tyre survived Nebby's 13-year siege. Your 'Liars for Jesus' apologists have sought to cut this prophecy into 2 parts and have Alexander The Great fulfil the second part centuries later (as he DID take Tyre), but this merely creates two failures where there was previously one: Nebby failed to take Tyre as prophesied, Alex failed to permanently destroy Tyre as prophesied.

    Failure of Ezekiel's "Egypt Prophecy".
    After the failure of the Tyre prophecy, Ezekiel promised Egypt to Nebby as compensation. Nebby was to ransack Egypt so thoroughly that neither man nor beast would set foot in it for 40 years. It would be a desolate country in the midst of other desolate countries. Well, unfortunately for you and other fundies that claim that the Bible is inerrant, History proves that Egypt has never been devoid of life for 40 years and it has never been surrounded by desolate countries.

    Failure of the "Babylon Prophecy" (Isaiah and Jeremiah).
    Both of these prophesied that the Medes would take and permanently destroy Babylon. But the Medes were conquered by the Persians, who then went on to peacefully take (and not destroy) Babylon.

    Numerous historical inaccuracies in Daniel.
    While Daniel was supposedly written in the 6th century BC, the evidence points towards it being written four centuries later.

    Herod/Quirinius issue
    Matthew says that Jesus was born in Herod's time so that would place it before 4BCE...because that was when Herod died. Luke, on the other hand, says Jesus was born when Quirinius was governor of the region. That would be in or after 6CE. So there is a discrepancy of some ten years between the two accounts.

    No "Massacre of the Innocents".
    We have accounts from Herod's enemies, describing his various "crimes". The Massacre is not among them. It was invented by Matthew to draw a parallel between Jesus and Moses (who also allegedly survived an infant massacre by Pharaoh).

    No "zombie invasion of Jerusalem" or "supernatural darkness"
    Again, pretty self-explanatory. The dead supposedly rose from their graves at the time of the alleged crucifixion and wandered about in Jerusalem, and there was supposedly a supernatural darkness for several hours: numerous historians in the vicinity failed to notice these events, as did all the gospel authors except one: obviously invented.

    Joshua's conquest and destruction of the Canaanite city of Ai. (Jericho)
    Extensive archaeological work at the site of Ai has revealed that the city was destroyed and burned around 2400 BCE, which would have been over a thousand years before the time of Joshua. In other words, there was no Jericho there for Joshua to conquer. The walls of Jericho did not come tumbling down at the sound of Joshua's trumpets. They came tumbling down around c2300BCE..a thousand years before Joshua.

    Oh please. You really need to give this up my friend because frankly, not only are you indicating your appalling ignorance of written history but you are displaying your level of indoctrination by your religious handlers! Let me educate you somewhat....

    The oldest known religious texts are Pyramid texts of Ancient Egypt that date to 2400-2300 BCE. The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumeria is also one of the earliest literary/religious works dating to 2150-2000 BCE. The Bhagavad Gita of the Hindu religion was written before 3000 BCE and the Rig Veda between 1700–1100 BCE making it possibly the world's oldest religious text still in use. The oldest portions of the Zoroastrian Avesta are believed to have been transmitted orally for centuries before they found written form, and although widely differing dates for Gathic Avestan (the language of the oldest texts) have been proposed, scholarly consensus floats at around 1000 BCE. The Old Testament of your Bible dates around 1000 - 500BCE.....rather young by comparison wouldn't you say??

    So what? That just means that it is popular not that it is true. Consider also the millions of Bibles that are printed and sold to hotel chains and other commercial enterprises that are NEVER actually read. They just sit in the dresser draws in hotel rooms and only see the light of day when some travelling salesman removes it from the drawer and throws it on the floor so that he can get his socks in the drawer.

    And as I have said before and which you ignore yet again - you have no verifiable evidence for these 'miracles'. All you have are accounts from people who were not there and who never met your Jesus character CLAIMING that these miracle occurred. There is no extra-biblical evidence whatsoever to support the claims.

    I repeat yet again...mythology is littered with miracle performing man-gods who died and were resurrected. Here's a list of some of them. It is in no way the complete listthem....

    Julunggul
    Wawalag
    Tammuz
    Ishtar
    Phoenix
    Quetzalcoatl
    Xipe Totec
    Adonis
    Baal
    Eshmun
    Melqart
    Jesus
    Zalmoxis
    Osiris
    Amun
    Horus
    Amun-Min
    Cronus
    Dionysus
    Orpheus
    Persephone
    Kali
    Shiva

    ........and that's without touching on Japanese, Chinese, Native American, Norse, Phrygian, Roman, Slavic or Sumerian mythology.

    Let me remind you again. If you are going to hold up your religious scriptures as 'true' you are going to have to supply verifiable evidence that they are true. Can you do that?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
    pladecalvo, Jun 24, 2012 IP
  12. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #32
    Not so fast buddy...

    "Matthew 12:40 - For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

    .....but he wasn't there for three days and three nights was he? He was only there for one day and two nights.
     
    pladecalvo, Jun 24, 2012 IP
  13. Mikaël2

    Mikaël2 Member

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    #33
    How do you know you didn't see the Devil ?

    I know people who say they've seen Mohamed, others say they've have seen Bhudda or some other mystical figure . Just because in your dreams you have seen a man that you think is Jesus does not mean the bible truth.

    If God has written a book, then at-least this book must be perfect. The bible is far from perfect, it contains falsehood, inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. It cannot be the word of God. Do you agree ?
     
    Mikaël2, Jun 24, 2012 IP
  14. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #34
    Then what is the point of posting stories about atheists converting to Christianity...as if it means something when it doesn't?

    No they can't, not yet anyway! The difference between us is that I am perfectly happy with...'we don't yet know' whilst you appear to want to replace every 'we don't yet know' with 'God'.

    Yes...throughout it's history the Church has been very keen on promoting ignorance and it still is. The greatest enemy of religion is knowledge so when questions are asked it is much better to say something like - 'It's not for us to know such things', 'God has his reasons and it's not for us to ask why', 'Such things are beyond us and our minds will blow up if we were to know all those things', 'Don't ask such things, just have 'faith' and believe'.

    Fortunately, increased education (with the exception of some parts of the USA that want pseudo-science in the guise of 'Intelligent Design' taught as fact in schools) and the internet are sounding the death-knell for religion. We are slowly emerging from the darkness of ignorance perpetrated by religion.... and into the bright sunshine of knowledge. It's a hard slog but we are getting there. The sooner the better!
     
    pladecalvo, Jun 25, 2012 IP
  15. dess71

    dess71 Well-Known Member

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    #35
    Can we conclude please? because we have left the subject matter. In closing i would like to say that we may not come into agreement but anyways want to mention some points with my faith and your stand. When we say the Bible is the word of God, it means that it is inspired by God as it says in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" We can understand that there are words spoken by God, men and there even is an account of what the devil said. But all is orchestrated to tell us a message from God. It really has a message for everyone if you read it with an open heart. Please do not get me wrong here.

    Next there can be some discrepancies in some stories because it has been translated a number of times. You can not blame God for this because the cause is human. Besides you can not interpret prophesy according to your understanding because the speaker is God and He is the one who can reveal what he means. 2peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man.

    I know from your writing that you have made some research on the subject matter but please have a little room for the truth because it might save you from evil. You know what I mean be a little open minded. Just a little.

    The other thing is that I simply can not imagine what atheists believe. Do you guys believe that the whole universe came into existence just out of the blue sky? Why do you find it easy to believe that there is some power yet you hate to believe that there is some powerful person behind? That is because your mind has never seen an everlasting non changing personality and because you are totally dependent on ONLY what your mind learned all your years. Do you think that this is all there is to it (life, world?)

    Can we say a house came into existence without its maker? Every thing we see in this world has a maker who are human beings. The same holds true for the universe. Can't you see intelligence behind every created being? or the universe as a whole?

    “But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
    or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
    8 or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
    or let the fish in the sea inform you.
    9 Which of all these does not know
    that the hand of the Lord has done this?
    10 In his hand is the life of every creature
    and the breath of all mankind.
    Job 12: 7-10

    *People say that they do not believe in God but it is the name of God that they call first when in trouble. But you know what it is okay to remember the Lord when trouble comes because He hears our Prayers. I pray that God reveal himself to you. Amen.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
    dess71, Jun 25, 2012 IP
  16. NeilPearson

    NeilPearson Well-Known Member

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    #36
    So let's get this straight. God creates billions of people and then only chooses some to follow him. The rest aren't chosen and therefore incapable of following. Then these people, who were not chosen, get punished for all eternity because God didn't decide to chose them to be followers.

    Wow, God is a prick.
     
    NeilPearson, Jun 25, 2012 IP
  17. NeilPearson

    NeilPearson Well-Known Member

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    #37
    Exactly who is Joseph's father?

    Matthew 1:16
    and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

    Luke 3:23
    Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,
     
    NeilPearson, Jun 25, 2012 IP
  18. NeilPearson

    NeilPearson Well-Known Member

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    #38
    dess71, sorry to say this but pladecalvo seriously kicked your ass in this debate.

    "Next there can be some discrepancies in some stories because it has been translated a number of times. You can not blame God for this because the cause is human."

    The whole bible was compiled from texts chosen by man to fulfill their worldly agenda. The Roman Empire embraced Christianity and brought in elements from their traditions and pagan Gods to better fit with their culture and political agenda. Christianity as it stands today was developed as a political entity to control the masses and still lives on in the Catholic Church. Sure, other Christian religions rose out of that but all they really had to go on was a bible that was compiled, edited and changed for the worldly benefit of the Roman Empire and the Roman Catholic Church. We really have no idea what the original text said in the bible and how it was changed and manipulated.
     
    NeilPearson, Jun 25, 2012 IP
  19. Mikaël2

    Mikaël2 Member

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    #39
    I'm not an atheist or agnostic.

    The universe had a beginning, therefore it must have been brought into being. It's okay to believe that a higher power brought to universe into being. Your mistake is that you assume that this higher power is Jesus and his father.
     
    Mikaël2, Jun 25, 2012 IP
  20. Grimm

    Grimm Peon

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    #40
    How ironic of you. Talking about being open minded and all :)

    There's a difference in believing fantasies such as saying that Santa Claus is real against accepting facts. Atheists are depended on what we have learned? Ever heard of religious indoctrination?

    Oh boy, please don't start anything about hypocrisy. It doesn't end well for religious people.
     
    Grimm, Jun 25, 2012 IP