Have You Been Burnt? (buyer or programmer)

as a programmer i was burned online and offline too. I have real contract signed with my real offline webstudio but the buyer never paid me. i should have work on his own server so he just run away with my script. I could get this to the court but it takes too long time to get my money

 

I've been burnt onces.. Well anyways now i request 10-30% up front.. And when project is finnished.. I show them... How it works thens they pay rest, then i give work.. Its works for me

 

seems mostly programmers have been burnt

but that makes sense..since here on DP its more programmers than buyers

 

Just recently got burned. A 7 day job (there estimate, not mine) turned into a 2 1/2 month wait for nothing.

I paid 50% upfront.

Because apparently this programmer had been scammed before... Ironic...

The guy has plenty of I-Trader points and plenty of posts and is very active on this very forum.

Funny thing is, that he didn't disappear, he just tells me a new excuse everytime I IM him.

He even said, "Why would I scam you, I always respond to you"

When I asked for a refund, he told me that he doesn't hand those out and to contact some other email address from his company that he gave me.

I got one response from that saying that "I will contact [progammers name] and ask him if we should issue you a refund"

That was it, a week later I IM'ed the programmer again and he said that he doesn't deal with refunds, and to wait.

Still no response.

I really want to post the guys name here, but I don't think that would help anything anyway...

There has to be a better way to deal with freelance work. Even escrow has it's limitations, but now more and more programmers that have been burned are requiring 50% upfront (and I understand why), but frankly, I can't afford to pay for nothing.

 

I was scammed once.
an employer said he will pay me monthly US $1000/ month.
i said sure! i coded/worked anything he asked me. I was so proud i even told my family and friends because now i earn more that them.

But after 1 week i got suspicious (because its just too good to be true) and i realized i should be paid semi-montly 15th and 30th of the month just in case.

I never got my semi-monthly pay. And surely after 1 month working for the guy i never get paid at all. I tried contacting him. And he responed that he will sue me because i used cakephp!? The reason because because he asked for a unique script. (cakephp is a RAD framework)

wtf? i was not paid and i will get sued??

And so i tried to improve the work that i did and tried selling it.
Today I stopped freelancing and started selling scripts on DP.

Jed

 

man, beatle,

that REALLY sucks

thats just getting strung along

i think you need to pin him down and get a definite estimate of timeline..if he doesnt do that,let him know you will give bad tr and talk about it in this thread

and though escrow has its limitation...in this situation, at this point he would have 3 dyas or 7 days depending on how many times you went back and forth to deliver or you get your money back

that "I don't handle refunds" is a nice way to say..."i don't give refunds"

which from a programmer perspective is understandable, especially if SOME work is done

but he wanted a deposit to make sure he got paid

escrow does that

you only want to pay after the job is done

i think escrow does that too

man...give him an ultimatum and a few days...if not, bring it here

 

yah that guy is defintely a scammer

when people pull that crap, theynever intended to pay from the beginning

 

Ive been burned a total of three times. It would be seven but I got out of four by finding their info and then emailing them it so they know I know who they are then calling them and telling them I will take them to small claims court to settle it. They usually get scared and I see the money before I even hang up.

I also have an escrow system already coded. It will be released once I have time to get all the legal stuff done because im sure no one would want to put 100s or 1000s of dollars into something that isnt legally backed.

 

I got ripped a few times. In all cases, the customer changed the terms of the agreement after the work had been done and then fought me on it. I don't mind making cahnges, but not when it adds 20 hours of labor that was not included in the bid. Now I require all customers to have a referal from a past customer who is on good terms with me.

 

with escrow the specifications are documented

so changes would be at YOUR OPTION, but not required for release of funds

immortality talk to me about what you have

i am considering doing this for the DP community

 

This is one of the main reasons, with DP, I do not offer any sort of rates or money for the work.

I will however, enter into an agreement to pay a % of the profit that the company will make, to reimburse them for their effort. That way, when the project has been completed by the developer. They will see a healthy return and more money in the long run.

But I understand this doesnt work for everyone.

I have also been burnt a few times as well. Paid for the work in advance and then their cat dies!

 

Yeah, it does suck.
I was pretty clear about the timeline and had them email me with what they would do, how long they would take and how much it would cost before we even started.

One other thing really bugged me.

I'm not one that likes excuses, but the programmer was getting angry at me for pushing for asking for updates (I never saw one update).

Also, I understand that things happen, but I really don't like the idea that SOME people, (in my case it was a programmer, I'm sure buyers do it to) use there personal issues to try and guilt you into not asking for updates.

I got responses like:

"What do you want me to do, I have 40 other clients, I can't just deal with you"

"I'm a busy man, I'll get to it, when I get to it"

"What's your problem, I have [insert personal issue here] to deal with"

 

well thats interesting...i know most experienced programmers will stay away from a deal like that.

Only because too many variables outside of their control determine if you actuall make a "profit"

you might make money, but no profit....you might not make any money...thats a high risk situation unless you have a proven track record of making money online....in which case there should be no problem paying for the work


but your other point does seem to be the case...its always something small or crazy or silly as the reason why they can't finish....the goldfish got sick and they were up all night taking care of it

 

hahahaha beatle

yah, i just had the same situationhappen to me....as if it was MY faulth they hadn't even STARTED yet even though it was supposed to be FINISHED!

 

Im a buyer (in some freelancing sites), and I have been burned many times, not that they dont do the job, they do it poorly. I know that if they put 15 to 30 minutes more they can do it 100% as I told them and as they promised me, but they dont. Luckily I do not give any BIG projects to any freelancer that I do not know. I have ONE guy that I rather pay 20 bucks extra and know that he will not drop what ever hi is doing until I say WOW. Unfortenetly he is good and I do not have any really big projects for him. Now im looking after someone that can do the small jobs (but many jobs) for me and Im back in same position again. Im almost sure there will be up to 20 or 30 "professional" coders that will try to do what ever I give to them and they will most likely do it, BUT the big question is how good will it be. Since Im also a person that dont want to like "force" anyone to anything they will have ONE chance.

 

I think its a good idea. Currently I am looking for a designer (have money available) but unable to get anyone. And I think it stems from this same problem. At least I'm an active member of thsi forum so it shouldn't pose much of a problem.

 

What happens in the event either party files a lawsuit over unsatisfactory results ?

 

great questiong

I thinik first off there would be TOS that agrees both parties will indemnify the escrow holder.

also, just as when you sign up for the better business bureau and pay their membership fee, you agree to be bound by thier arbitration

both parties would agree in the TOS to accept any "ruling" by the escrow holder.

Also, I think to start, since it would be for DP, it would be for jobs less than $500

at least to start, it could grow, but for 500 bucks, and dealing with someone out of state or out of country...the hassle of that won't be worth it.


again, the main thing is the escrow is an intermediary...so let's say:

programmer gets paid...the person to litigate against is the programmer, not the person holding escrow.

lets say the buyer gets refunded....again, the buyer is the one to litigate against.


also it's really not a concern....look at the stories, loook at the poll

90% of the time, the person just loses out...the programmers do not sue for payment

and the buyers don't sue for refunds.....no one has even mentioned ACTUALLY GOING to court....one person threatened it...but its rare.

 

It seems to me that if the entity in the middle isn't agreeing to be held legally accountable by either party they have no motive to be remain a fair mediator.

 

actually thats EXACTLY why they are fair...no bias


its like a friend from the outside, who says i will hold the money until your agreement is satisfied


they are accountable for the fiduciary duty to keep the money safe...and to make it available on demand...but not if the parties are at odds with each other