Just wondering what everyone thinks given recent developments in congress. It looks like not only will there be no public option but the insurance companies will literally be given millions of new customers who will now be forced to buy health insurance like it's car insurance under penalty of law (fines). How did this happen? How did we go from trying to reform the health insurance industry and force them to change their ways to defeating the only real chance at competition and giving them free customers? No penalties for purposely using shady tactics to avoid paying claims. Basically nothing to force them to change what is ironically the core issue that most Americans who have insurance deal with. The problem of being punished for getting sick when it comes time to collect on the "insurance" you were promised and paid for. Nothing to stop them from raising your deductibles to bankruptcy inducing highs when you get sick. Nothing to stop them from denying your claims for frivolous reasons. I have to admit I was naive. I thought that since we had the advantage of actually trying to do something good it didn't matter how BIG the insurance lobby was. There's just no denying that the insurance industry has been sticking it to us for decades so how could they possibly make an argument to the contrary? But here we are, and all I can say is WOW they really proved me wrong. Not only did they stop it but they got politicians to pervert the bill with huge bonuses and giveraways for them. I've been reading around the net today that what really did us in was the latest round of threats from insurance companies and related industries threatening to not only pull campaign funding from key targeted politicians (Democrat and Republican) but to boost their contributions to anyone that would run against them.... Well played sirs. Well played. The ultimate irony is that after all the kitchen sink attacks the industry and their Republican puppets tried to throw at reform the one that got the most traction among the uninformed is the most empty and blatantly rhetorical one of them all. The whole "this is just a hidden attempt at total government take over of health care". That argument literally (that's right I said literally) has nothing to do with the actual issues that HCR is trying to fix. And with all the concessions the Democrats have made and the tons of amendments to HR 3200 and the Baucus bill allowed only to score ZERO Republican votes that idea (government takeover) would be hilarious if it weren't so sad because people are allowing it to have an actual impact on this debate. So it's my opinion that even if a bill passes both houses it's not going to actually reform anything. What I feared all along seems to be happening. The Republicans finally realized that they couldn't just keep the bill from getting passed outright so they literally fought it every step of the way until it was de-clawed and it didn't matter if it got passed. The Republicans didn't do it alone though. In fact they were a small player in this. The insurance industry bank rolled the entire operation from million-dollar-daily ad campaigns to buying key Democrats to seal the deal.
Don't sweat it, I haven't been following the news much but I think we're at a good point now. The left is being tempered (guys like Zibblu) and this may open up nation-wide discussion and constructive debate.
Th GOP was held responsible for everything that happened during the 8 years prior to Big O getting in, and they only had a majority part of that time. Now the Dems have the White House AND a majority, so in keeping with established standards if it doesnt fly it's entirely their fault. (damn paybacks) Actually the Heath care setup is a clusterfuck and tort reform is drastically needed. I don;t think there's much chance the Dems could make any major reforms that wouldnt be an improvement. Thats not a vote of confidence to the dnc, just disgust at the mess that its become. It's a travesty of free market enterprise... medicaid fraud, insurance scams, lawyer lottery, etc. Probably the only time in years I've rooted for the Dems to actually get something passed. Washingtons too polarized to agree on where any two people want to go to lunch,so unfortunately I have little faith in the yahoos on either side working together toward a feasible plan. It'll end up being some dumbass window dressing legislation. Frankly pisses me that the GOP is more interested in seeing O fail than in doing their job. Granted, the Dems have done it before too, but theyre both wrong and not serving anyone but themselves when they do this. [When I'm president, theyre all fired.] Congress is proof that a camel is just a horse that was designed by a committee.
Oh, I meant to say will be tempered.. and as far as Zibblu goes, I'm not holding my breath Rob Jones 2012.
You need to run for Senate...or for whoever my representative is for where I live Unfortunately I had little faith of anything good coming out of this other than thousands of pages of fluff that basically puts us right where we are again. What needs to happen before any meaningful legislation on any topic gets passed is campaign reform and the funding for it. Rob Jones, 2012
If anyone "beats" it, it's the moderate Democrats who understand the nation's #1 concern right now is our country's debt and spending. They know they can't financially back up a public option no matter what wishful thinkers are saying. Every time you guys talk about the "greedy insurance companies" pushing against this, you seem to conveniently not mention the greedy drug companies who are pushing FOR this. The same drug companies famously known for back room deals and the most powerful lobbyists that exist. They practically own the FDA and other groups and can get anything pushed through they want with their big money.
@robjones, yeah and that's why I was careful not to put the blame solely on the GOP. The insurance lobby literally bought 5 Democrats as well to seal the deal. The irony is that there was PLENTY of middle ground for both sides of the aisle to come together (like Obama wanted). We could have included major tort reform AND legislation that introduced tougher penalties for fraud. Add in a public option that is truly an "option" and I think we have a winner! @bobstar, I guess I should have been as cynical as you. Then this wouldn't be such a big let down for me. HCR is literally the reason I voted for Obama over Hillary. I guess we really didn't need someone who would reach across the aisle on this issue but instead someone who would have come in Bush style (you're for us or you're against us) and pushed it through. But then when I step back and look at the big picture and see all the rats running around it wouldn't matter who we elected.. We live in an age where corporate lobby money is far more powerful than votes. My problem is, free market supporters want to relax the rules EVEN MORE and give these people even more power. It baffles me....
We're all arguing the same thing. Corporate interests on both sides have WAY too much influence in this issue. But I suppose what we need is to relax regulations even more and shrink the only entity capable of fighting them. Because if we just leave the free market alone they will suddenly stop caring about their profits and really work to regulate themselves... Their core motivator will somehow stop being their profit margins. Then they'll start doing things for the people. Because they care. These are the same corporate interests that will literally LET PEOPLE DIE rather than pay their insurance claims... yet some people believe that if you deregulate them they will suddenly do the right thing.
What I would like to know is how the Republicans who have a minority in both houses are able to defeat a bill that could be easily passed by the Democrats without ANY Republican input what so ever. Hmm...
I'd like to know if you actually read the thread before commenting, but then I guess it's pretty obvious you didn't.
I wonder if you've ever been able to answer a question without being condescending. Hell, I wonder if you've ever even taken the time to answer a question. It's fairly obvious why you do not.
Yeah I know, it's my curse. My knee-jerk reaction to absurdity is something I need to work on... It's just that when you came to the thread asking how this is all the Republicans' fault when clearly the entire discussion was around all the other influences to this issue I was at a loss... Let's start over... Actually every post I made in this thread mentions other influences and in fact I downplayed the Republican's influence to nothing more than puppet mouth pieces to the true defeaters of HCR. Private interests who even bought enough key Democrats on the majority side to ensure no real reform would ever come of all of this.
Every time I read something like this, I am reminded of this> The insurance industry his its hands in EVERYTHING. Legalized gambling. They set the odds and you can't win. Pharma are bit players, but every bit as corrupt. Both need regulating. Pharma should be disallowed from consumer marketing (e.g. TV and print) as well as the BS backdoor rewarding of physicians.