Hate mongers looking for boogeyman, do Muslims support this? Poll for Muslims

Obamanation Well-Known Member

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#21

Bushranger said: ↑

Anything taken to extreme is doomed to failure, including capitalism.
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Capitalism is an economic system where is Communism and Sharia are forms of government. I suppose every economic system and form of government comes with it's own pros and cons. In the case of Communism and Sharia, the con just so happens to be it always winds up being an oppressive and brutal dictatorship.

Obamanation, Sep 18, 2012 IP

gworld Prominent Member

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#22

Obamanation said: ↑

Capitalism is an economic system where is Communism and Sharia are forms of government.
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It is always funny to see morons who have no idea what they are talking about, to post their "informed" opinion. Communism is simply the next stage of economic development when the ownership of the means of production changes. Marx actually said that he has no idea what a government at that time will look like and that is something the future workers should decide on but he believed that a government form similar to Paris commune based on the direct participation of people will be suitable.

The Paris Commune or Fourth French Revolution (French: La Commune de Paris, IPA: [la kÉ”myn dÉ™ paÊi]) was a government that briefly ruled Paris from March 18 (more formally, from March 28) to May 28, 1871. It existed before the split between anarchists and Marxists had taken place, and it is hailed by both groups as the first assumption of power by the working class during the Industrial Revolution. Debates over the policies and outcome of the Commune contributed to the break between those two political groups.
In a formal sense, the Paris Commune simply acted as the local authority, the city council (in French, the "commune"), which exercised power in Paris for two months in the spring of 1871. However, the conditions in which it formed, its controversial decrees, and its violent end make its tenure one of the more important political episodes of the time.
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Parisians, especially workers and the lower-middle classes, had long supported a democratic republic. A specific demand was that Paris should be self-governing with its own elected council, something enjoyed by smaller French towns but denied to Paris by a national government wary of the capital's unruly populace. An associated, but less well-articulated, wish was for a more "just", if not necessarily socialist, way of managing the economy, summed up in the popular appeal for "la rÃ©publique dÃ©mocratique et sociale!" ("the democratic and social republic!"

.................
Social measures
The commune adopted the previously discarded French Republican Calendar during its brief existence and used the socialist red flag rather than the republican tricolour. In 1848, during the Second Republic, radicals and socialists had also adopted the red flag to distinguish themselves from moderate Republicans; this was similar to the symbolic distinctions adopted by the moderate, liberal, Girondist movement during the 1789 revolution.
Despite internal differences, the Council made a good start in organizing the public services essential for a city of two million. It also reached consensus on certain policies that tended towards a progressive, secular, and highly-democratic social democracy, rather than a true social revolution. Because the Commune was able to meet on fewer than sixty days in all, only a few decrees were actually implemented. These included:
the separation of church and state;
the remission of rents owed for the entire period of the siege (during which, payment had been suspended);
the abolition of night work in the hundreds of Paris bakeries;
the granting of pensions to the unmarried companions and children of National Guards killed on active service;
the free return, by the city pawnshops, of all workmen's tools and household items valued up to 20 francs, pledged during the siege; the Commune was concerned that skilled workers had been forced to pawn their tools during the war;
the postponement of commercial debt obligations, and the abolition of interest on the debts; and
the right of employees to take over and run an enterprise if it were deserted by its owner; the Commune, nonetheless, recognized the previous owner's right to compensation.
The decrees separated the church from the state, made all church property public property, and excluded the practice of religion from schools. (After the fall of the Commune, separation of Church and State, or laÃ¯citÃ©, would not enter French law again until 1880-81 during the Third Republic, with the signing of the Jules Ferry laws and the 1905 French law on the separation of Church and State.) The churches were allowed to continue their religious activity only if they kept their doors open for public political meetings during the evenings. Along with the streets and the cafÃ©s, the churches became centres for political discussions and activities.
Other projected legislation dealt with educational reforms that would make further education and technical training freely available to all.
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Feminist initiatives
Women played an important role in both the initiation and governance of the Commune. Several women and children threw themselves between Adolphe Thiers' army and the cannons they were attempting to confiscate from the National Guard on Montmartre. Despite orders from Thiers, soldiers refused to fire on their own people. This led the French army to retreat to Versailles and allowed the Paris Commune to form.
Some women organized a feminist movement, following on from earlier attempts in 1789 and 1848. Thus, Nathalie Lemel, a socialist bookbinder, and Ã‰lisabeth Dmitrieff, a young Russian exile and member of the Russian section of the First International (IWA), created the Union des femmes pour la dÃ©fense de Paris et les soins aux blessÃ©s ("Women's Union for the Defense of Paris and Care of the Wounded") on April 11, 1871. The feminist writer AndrÃ© LÃ©o, a friend of Paule Minck, was also active in the Women's Union. Believing that their struggle against patriarchy could only be pursued through a global struggle against capitalism, the association demanded gender equality, wages' equality, the right of divorce for women, the right to secular education and professional education for girls. They also demanded suppression of the distinction between married women and concubines, and between legitimate and illegitimate children. They advocated the abolition of prostitution (obtaining the closing of the maisons de tolÃ©rance, or legal official brothels). The Women's Union also participated in several municipal commissions and organized cooperative workshops.[4] Along with EugÃ¨ne Varlin, Nathalie Le Mel created the cooperative restaurant La Marmite, which served free food for indigents, and then fought during the Bloody Week on the barricades.[5]
Paule Minck opened a free school in the Church of Saint Pierre de Montmartre and animated the Club Saint-Sulpice on the Left Bank.[5] The Russian Anne Jaclard, who declined to marry Dostoievsky and finally became the wife of Blanquist activist Victor Jaclard, founded the newspaper Paris Commune with AndrÃ© LÃ©o. She was also a member of the ComitÃ© de vigilance de Montmartre, along with Louise Michel and Paule Minck, as well as of the Russian section of the First International. Victorine Brocher, close to the IWA activists, and founder of a cooperative bakery in 1867, also fought during the Commune and the Bloody Week.[5]
Famous figures such as Louise Michel, the "Red Virgin of Montmartre", who joined the National Guard and would later be sent to New Caledonia, symbolized the active participation of a small number of women in the insurrectionary events. A female battalion from the National Guard defended the Place Blanche during the repression.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune

This is what still scares the right-wing neo-cons around the world, people standing up for their rights and governing themselves through direct participation.

Last edited: Sep 19, 2012

gworld, Sep 19, 2012 IP

ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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#23

Yep communism sure is great . Just look at all the people enjoying themselves :

ApocalypseXL, Sep 19, 2012 IP

wmghori Well-Known Member

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#24

ApocalypseXL said: ↑

Yep communism sure is great . Just look at all the people enjoying themselves :

View attachment 92347
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capitalism is also great.

wmghori, Sep 19, 2012 IP

ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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#25

Here's a question from what ass did you pulled the 100 million natives number ?

Also FYI European = Americans Colonists .

Anyway if you want images , images you will have :

ApocalypseXL, Sep 19, 2012 IP

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#26

Also it was the Europeans who got murdered by the Asian invaders :

[video=youtube;maziRFPYU14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maziRFPYU14[/video]

ApocalypseXL, Sep 19, 2012 IP

gworld Prominent Member

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#27

ApocalypseXL said: ↑

Yep communism sure is great . Just look at all the people enjoying themselves :

View attachment 92347
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Is this a picture of what Romanians did to the Jews?

As usual you are too stupid to discuss anything and can only post a picture that has nothing to do with the subject of my post? Do you try to get the title of most stupid Romanian ever? No wonder Austrian police caught your chop shop operation and deported you, you probably were advertising in newspapers that you buy stolen cars.

gworld, Sep 19, 2012 IP

Obamanation Well-Known Member

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#28

gworld said: ↑

Communism is simply the next stage of economic development when the ownership of the means of production changes. Marx actually said that he has no idea what a government at that time will look like and that is something the future workers should decide on but he believed that a government form similar to Paris commune based on the direct participation of people will be suitable.
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And yet Marx's communist lead governments were all brutal dictatorships..

I was actually surprised to see you link a city government(Paris) that existed for two months as a shining example of communism functioning as something other than a dictatorship. I was certain you were going to through a kibbutz at me, which would have been equally laughable.

gworld said: ↑

This is what still scares the right-wing neo-cons around the world, people standing up for their rights and governing themselves through direct participation.
Click to expand...

Anyone with any knowledge of history should be as scared of communism as they are of Sharia. Another funny thing. You just reminded me that the direct participation is the exact language the Occupy movement used to describe their governance. Who can forget this bit of comedy.
[video=youtube;3QZlp3eGMNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI&playnext=1&list=PL64D53686BB06C47F&feature=results_video[/video]

Obamanation, Sep 19, 2012 IP

ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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#29

gworld said: ↑

Is this a picture of what Romanians did to the Jews?
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What do you think troll ? Is it ?

ApocalypseXL, Sep 19, 2012 IP

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#30

Obamanation said: ↑

And yet Marx's communist lead governments were all brutal dictatorships..

I was actually surprised to see you link a city government(Paris) that existed for two months as a shining example of communism functioning as something other than a dictatorship. I was certain you were going to through a kibbutz at me, which would have been equally laughable.

Anyone with any knowledge of history should be as scared of communism as they are of Sharia. Another funny thing. You just reminded me that the direct participation is the exact language the Occupy movement used to describe their governance. Who can forget this bit of comedy.
Click to expand...

You are almost becoming as stupid as AsscalypseXL. You should not post about things that you donÂ´t know. You stated that Communism is a form of government while according to Marx is the next stage of development in economic systems after Capitalism. Then you ignored my post that Marx specifically to the question about form of government, answered that he is not a fortune teller and this is something that will be decided by the future working class. After that you proved your ignorance by talking about former East Block as a Communist country while Marx didnÂ´t believe in Communism in one country and stated it will be in an international form. Marx only praised the Commune for its direct democracy form and stated that future government in a Communist society will probably look like this.
You try to use one of the strategy of the right-wing nuts play book by connecting Communism with Islam and Sharia (grouping people against crazy neo-cons) but that makes you look even more stupid because everyone knows that Communism and Islam got nothing to do with each other. My suggestion is that you stop posting about things that you know nothing about so you wonÂ´t look more of a moron that you are.
Anyone looking at the present situation with problems of Capitalism and move toward unified and bigger markets (EU, NAFTA,...) will see that Marx predictions are becoming a reality. Computers and robots are pushing the labor out of production which decreases the necessary labor and destroys the market for the products. Their predictions are becoming every day more of a reality.

The capitalistic mode of production moves in these two forms of the antagonism immanent to it from its very origin. It is never able to get out of that "vicious circle" which Fourier had already discovered. What Fourier could not, indeed, see in his time is that this circle is gradually narrowing; that the movement becomes more and more a spiral, and must come to an end, like the movement of the planets, by collision with the centre. It is the compelling force of anarchy in the production of society at large that more and more completely turns the great majority of men into proletarians; and it is the masses of the proletariat again who will finally put an end to anarchy in production. It is the compelling force of anarchy in social production that turns the limitless perfectibility of machinery under modern industry into a compulsory law by which every individual industrial capitalist must perfect his machinery more and more, under penalty of ruin. But the perfecting of machinery is making human labour superfluous. If the introduction and increase of machinery means the displacement of millions of manual by a few machine-workers, improvement in machinery means the displacement of more and more of the machine-workers themselves. It means, in the last instance, the production of a number of available wage-workers in excess of the average needs of capital, the formation of a complete industrial reserve army, as I called it in 1845, *9 available at the times when industry is working at high pressure, to be cast out upon the street when the inevitable crash comes, a constant dead-weight upon the limbs of the working class in its struggle for existence with capital, a regulator for the keeping of wages down to the low level that suits the interests of capital. Thus it comes about, to quote Marx, that machinery becomes the most powerful weapon in the war of capital against the working class; that the instruments of labour constantly tear the means of subsistence out of the hands of the labourer; that the very product of the worker is turned into an instrument for his subjugation. Thus it comes about that the economising of the instruments of labour becomes at the same time, from the outset, the most reckless waste of labour-power, and robbery based upon the normal conditions under which labour functions; that machinery, the most powerful instrument for shortening labour-time, becomes the most unfailing means for placing every moment of the labourer's time and that of his family at the disposal of the capitalist for the purpose of expanding the value of his capital. Thus it comes about that the overwork of some becomes the preliminary condition for the idleness of others, and that modern industry, which hunts after new consumers over the whole world, forces the consumption of the masses at home down to a starvation minimum, and in doing this destroys its own home market. â€œThe law that always equilibrates the relative surplus-population, or industrial reserve army, to the extent and energy of accumulation, this law rivets the labourer to capital more firmly than the wedges of Vulcan did Prometheus to the rock. It establishes an accumulation of misery corresponding with accumulation of capital. Accumulation of wealth at one pole is, therefore, at the same time accumulation of misery, agony of toil, slavery, ignorance, brutality, mental degradation, at the opposite pole, i.e., on the side of the class that produces its own product in the form of capitalâ€ (Marxâ€™s Capital, p. 671.) And to expect any other division of the products from the capitalistic mode of production is the same as expecting the electrodes of a battery not to decompose acidulated water, not to liberate oxygen at the positive, hydrogen at the negative pole, so long as they are connected with the battery.
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http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1877/anti-duhring/ch24.htm

TodayÂ´s USA and Europe anyone?

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gworld, Sep 19, 2012 IP

ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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#31

The blessings of marxism :

ApocalypseXL, Sep 19, 2012 IP

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#32

ApocalypseXL said: ↑

The blessings of marxism
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Please award the most stupid Romanian tittle to AsscalypseXL so he stops posting his stupid pictures and comments. The poor guy deserves it after trying so hard for this title.

gworld, Sep 19, 2012 IP

ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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#33

Already out of arguments Julian ? Well don't worry , no one expected you to be coherent

ApocalypseXL, Sep 19, 2012 IP

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