h1 headers as images

Discussion in 'Search Engine Optimization' started by klown, Sep 12, 2006.

  1. #1
    If you put a image within the h1 tags with both alt and title tags would a search engine recognize the alt or text tags as the header text? My design could be a lot better with image based headers.

    So tell me what you think :)
     
    klown, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  2. ahkip

    ahkip Prominent Member

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    #2
    don't think so...SE think text within the H1 tag is more important because they shown in larger size for the reader. For image, there is no text to show... i don't think it will works...

    btw, does it violate the syntax of HTML?
     
    ahkip, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  3. dcristo

    dcristo Illustrious Member

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    #3
    Use both images for headers AND header tags.
     
    dcristo, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  4. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    #4
    Negative on this one.
    CAn you give us an example of where you are using the h1?

    Generally, you should use it directly above your atrice, to indicate exactly what the article is about. Since your article will not be all images, your h1 should not look out of place being right above txt.

    If you are talking about some sort of nav system on your site, you shoudlnt use an H1 tag for those.
     
    grobar, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  5. klown

    klown Peon

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    #5
    its an image header.. you guys have seen thousands of sites where the header is instead a image because you can do nicer effects with images then you can with plain old text and css. www.pacificprime.com is a site im redoing now which currently uses a header image. I'd like to change the header image to something like below.

    <h1> <img src="../blah.jpg" alt="International Health Insurance" Title=" International Health Insurance"> </h1>
    HTML:
    maybe but it displays fine on firefox and IE, didnt try opera but i assume it works there.

    Is the example what you mean?
     
    klown, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  6. dcristo

    dcristo Illustrious Member

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    #6
    That's not what I had in mind. Basically what I was trying to say, if you are going to use images for headers, also include header tags on the page to compliment it.
     
    dcristo, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  7. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    #7
    I'm afraid that there is no way this is going to "validate" under any of the current w3c standards. (but then again, neither does google code, both on their site, and of their adsense code(search box) so maybe they don't care?)
     
    grobar, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  8. klown

    klown Peon

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    #8
    Maybe it doesnt validate but whats more important is that google reads the alt or title tags as the header and therefore associates the weight of a h1 tag with that text.

    if later google decides to change its algo to punish non w3c standards sites i can change it to a decent looking text based one without much problem. I view a google move like that as highly unlikely though.
     
    klown, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  9. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    #9
    technically, the H1 tag does not HAVE an alt tag though:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5

    so would you think that google would pick that up? There is a probable chance that it sees the H1, looks for the H1 text, and ignores all else - such as css labels and style elements.

    Obviously neither of us have proof either way, but just a thought.
     
    grobar, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  10. sipltech

    sipltech Well-Known Member

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    #10
    True!!

    It's not a matter of SE's will be "ignoring" this, but it may be treated as hidden tacticts. As per norms, H1 should be used to define your headlines, not the Keywords.

    However this is my own views, as i have tested a lot of things in my early days and feel, this will not going to help. SEO's may have different views too.
     
    sipltech, Sep 12, 2006 IP
  11. mad4

    mad4 Peon

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    #11
    Check the source of seomoz. They use css to show a background image for the header tags.
     
    mad4, Sep 13, 2006 IP
  12. ahkip

    ahkip Prominent Member

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    #12
    it is not H1 having an alt tag, it is the images...

    what he mean is sth like this

    <h1><img src="blah" alt="insurance"></h1>

    and he wonder if the word insurance will be taken as the title of the page
     
    ahkip, Sep 13, 2006 IP
  13. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    #13
    NO - you can't assume that the google, msn, yahoo parser is coded to say "if no H1 text, look for an image, and take the alt of that"

    Generally the H1 is thought of as the title, not an image - both in web copy, and in traditional print. using your assumption, you should be able to put anything in an h1 tag - say, a radio button - does it make sense to say that because that radio button is wrapped in an h1 tag, that its "value=" attribute be taken as the page title? Certainly not.
     
    grobar, Sep 13, 2006 IP
  14. ahkip

    ahkip Prominent Member

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    #14
    that's exactly what i said here..
    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=1409092&postcount=2
     
    ahkip, Sep 13, 2006 IP
  15. marques

    marques Well-Known Member

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    #15
    You guys are most likely right, but I do use the H1 and IMG tag together.

    http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...efox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&strip=1

    I have pick up this tip at another seo site. Google's text only copy does show the alt text as being larger.

    We really don't know what Google/MSN/Yahoo would do. I tried to add the H1 tag + text elsewhere but it just did not look right for the template I am using.

    To my knowledge it has not hurt my ranking.
     
    marques, Sep 13, 2006 IP
  16. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    #16
    Interesting - this is the first solid shred of proof for that side of the argument, thanks for posting.
     
    grobar, Sep 13, 2006 IP
  17. sipltech

    sipltech Well-Known Member

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    #17
    It may not hurt your rankings! This site does not use H1 else where. :) neither this site have any other spammy stuffs. A pure clean site! I think you have recently launched the site, some where in 2006. This may be the reason it is yet to attain PR etc.. but this is a very nice test to watch :D

    can you post the link of the site from where you pickup the tips for H1? I like to read more about this.
     
    sipltech, Sep 13, 2006 IP
  18. connectmobiles

    connectmobiles Peon

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    #18
    not sure.. but I think.... it wont comply with W3C validation...
     
    connectmobiles, Sep 14, 2006 IP
  19. marques

    marques Well-Known Member

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    #19

    I went back to the site where I pick up the tip which was SEOChat. After reading it over again, it looks as if I read it wrong. Here is the paragraph in quesiton:

    From SEOChat:
    Then it will see your site's graphic, set as a background image, with the alt text set to your key word/phrase. On top of that image, wrapped in <h1> tags, is (again) your key word/phrase.

    link here

    It mentions to wrapped in <h1> tags, but meant just the keywords. I must have speed read it:rolleyes:.

    I also came accross this comment on seochat's forum.

    Don't know what else to say other then this practice should be allow. The biggest text on most websites is the top banner graphic. The only other option would be to put the H1 tag somewhere on the bottom which makes no sense.
     
    marques, Sep 14, 2006 IP
  20. seo-mumbai

    seo-mumbai Well-Known Member

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    #20
    basic website bulding is, we have to make sites for site visitors not for search engines and alt tags are more important for google images so h1 will have more importance.
     
    seo-mumbai, Sep 14, 2006 IP