1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

Goole SEO Firms Will Be Obsolete

Discussion in 'Google' started by CommonDavid, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. #1
    Search Engine Optimization and SEO firms are great…

    …don’t get me wrong. They provide business and site owners with an excellent service of allowing people who are searching for their content, find them. The reason these SEO Firms will be all gone some day lies completely in the way that the search engine Google has been changing.

    Google is changing…

    … more and more every day and we see it in the search results. It wasn’t that long ago that everyone was consumed with their keyword density percentage, was 5% to high, was 7% to low and so on. These days kw density is a non factor. There is no magic number and it is beginning to look like it doesn’t matter at all, besides the fact that you actually have to have the keyword somewhere in the content you are trying to rank well for. I have personally done tests this year and gotten better results by boosting up my kw density for one client specifically. I spent hours and hours editing content, putting more keywords, alt tags, title attributes and so on in throughout their entire site. Then I realized that it wasn’t because of kw density that I was getting better results, but because the content had been updated, it was more RELATED to the the actual keywords, and that the links and images were being tagged (& attributed) to the RELEVANT keywords.

    So what does this have to do with SEO firms becoming obsolete?

    Google is changing more and more to make it so that the only thing that really matters when dealing with onsite SEO is the content. This takes all the optimizing out of SEO and makes it more important to just write good content. If you write good content that:

    a. Attracts readers

    b. Keeps them entertained
    SEMrush
    c. Keeps them coming back

    You’ll end up being better off in the long run than if you completely optimize all your on-site factors.

    This new evolution of Google…

    … doesn’t end with the content either. You could write the best content in the world, but if you site is not attractive, doesn’t entice the reader or keep them coming back, then you’ll be out of luck when it comes to the popularity of your site as well as with your search engine rankings. The way things are moving today, is away from just “Search Engine Optimizing” your site. Instead they’re moving to a place where you need to have a “Search Engine Strategy” or an entire “Website Strategy”. This strategy is where SEO as we know it is evolving. This evolution looks at every factor from the sitemap, to the wireframe, navigation and even color scheme to ultimately determine where you rank in the search engines.

    The more popular your site gets…

    … the better rankings it will get, and all of the things discussed above (design elements, content, navigation etc) will ultimately determine how successful your website is. The lower your bounce rates are, the longer your readers and visitors spend on your site, the more you update your site and the more they come back are quickly turning into the most important factors of ranking well in the Search Engines. Although SEO firms are far from being extinct, keep in mind that a greater overall “Strategy” will be needed in the long term if you plan to be successful in the Search Engines.

    And stop adding links to directories! Google started devaluing those earlier this year!

    http://gazebo.commonplaces.com/2008/08/why-seo-firms-may-someday-be-obsolete/
     
    CommonDavid, Aug 15, 2008 IP
    MOG likes this.
    SEMrush
  2. FightRice

    FightRice Peon

    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    28
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #2
    Sorry, but SEO firms will never be obsolete. Just like google changes and the world of SEO changes, the firms must also change.

    And while google maybe implementing these changes, most other search engines aren't and those can still deliver a good amount of traffic.
     
    FightRice, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  3. Divisive Cottonwood

    Divisive Cottonwood Peon

    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    35
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #3
    This discussion takes place at least once a day somewhere on the net ...

    'These days kw density is a non factor.' This has been the case since the end of the 90s :)

    I think what will possibly change is that SEO won't become such a distinct business in its own right, with basic SEO principles now firmly rooted across much of web design and development.

    Having said that, professional SEO companies really go about their business in a scientific and mathematical way. Much more so than the average user on this site. As long as this is the scenario, then there will always be room for distinct SEO companies in their own right.
     
    Divisive Cottonwood, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  4. snowbird

    snowbird Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,035
    Likes Received:
    394
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #4
    SEO will never be obsolete. Popularity is measured partly by the number and quality of links to a site. This will probably never be eliminated from judging where a site should be positioned in the serps.

    The obvious question is where should we get our links then?

    In competitive niches, directory backlinks will not offer much help. But in non competitive niches, directory links are very helpful. I have PR 4 sites that rank well for their keywords and these sites only have backlinks from directories. Do directories help? Sure they do! Will they help you rank for a keyword like "digital cameras?" Probably not. But they won't hurt either...
     
    snowbird, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  5. CommonDavid

    CommonDavid Peon

    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    9
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #5
    I really feel it's moving from a scientific/mathematical approach to a much more strategical approach. Even a "Marketing Strategy" examining join pages, cart pages, conversions, traffic leaks etc is more well suited to today's SE market then the traditional "SEO" mind frame.
     
    CommonDavid, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  6. CommonDavid

    CommonDavid Peon

    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    9
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #6
    Ok, keep submitting to directories and don't come back here months from now, years from now and ask why you're Google listings are slipping. ;)
     
    CommonDavid, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  7. UTOPIA

    UTOPIA Active Member

    Messages:
    1,433
    Likes Received:
    26
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    88
    #7
    As others have said, SEO will not become obsolete. As long as people continue to use search engines to find products and services, businesses will always be competing to be on the top page of google and other search engines, and will use SEO specialists to achieve this.
     
    UTOPIA, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  8. googlefrog

    googlefrog Peon

    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    5
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #8
    No matter what seo will always exist because everyone wants to be #1
     
    googlefrog, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  9. IEmailer.com

    IEmailer.com Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    27
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    #9
    This is not even a change in Google alogarithm, It's an old school rule:
    Rule #1 Content
    Rule #2 Back Links

    And about the directories, I don't agree with you at all... lol ;)
     
    IEmailer.com, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  10. enous

    enous Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,468
    Likes Received:
    13
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    158
    #10
    yeah, I think the content is king, the links are queen..
     
    enous, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  11. firmaterra

    firmaterra Peon

    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    16
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #11
    Content will always be King.

    I think what we're seeing with google is better filtering of websites. Rather than simplisticly counting external links to a site and counting keywords (and then ensuring the keywords don't go over a percentage of the total keywords) Google is now examining the links. Its my suspision that if you have a custom made directory script, links from that script will still count. If you have an off the shelf directory script - no links from that count. I suspect they are also holding lists of directories and automatically discounting links for them.

    As regards content there's been a huge drop in SPAM sites and MFA sites. They are not that hard to spot and filter out. Where the problem always was is in the amount of time it takes to analyze the content and links for each webpage. With more processing power at their disposal they can do this now.
     
    firmaterra, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  12. snowbird

    snowbird Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,035
    Likes Received:
    394
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    290
    #12
    David, I'm sorry to disagree with you. As I stated before, directory submissions work well for non competitive niches. In competitive niches, directory submissions may help a little but certainly won't get you to page 1.

    If anything, SEO is getting more involved and the marketplace is spawning new training, certification, and degree opportunities for SEO professionals. Anyone interested in mastering search engine skills may want to join a professional SEM/SEO organization and stay on top of current events and ahead of the curve. It's money well spent for anyone that wants to improve their skills, build relationships, and seek employment and recognition in this field.

    As you and some of the other posters noted, content is very important. If people are not willing to come back to your site, then all the optimization in the world will not build a popular site. But to get that initial popularity, you have to get noticed. There's a number of ways to do this, and SEO offers the best ROI in the long run.
     
    snowbird, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  13. lycos

    lycos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,768
    Likes Received:
    176
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    135
    #13
    I agree with you. Basically what google is doing is to ensure ONLY fully deserved websites/blog get high ranking on their search results. It's to protect the integrity of their search engine.
     
    lycos, Aug 15, 2008 IP
  14. lightlysalted

    lightlysalted Active Member

    Messages:
    2,067
    Likes Received:
    32
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    90
    #14
    there will always be a need for seo comapnies in one form or another regardless of what the formula is for google. However personally i prfer to do stuff myself having learnt from other technical experts in forums like this, but to say that there will be no SEO companies around is nonesense, there will always be a market
     
    lightlysalted, Aug 16, 2008 IP
    snowbird likes this.
  15. MRniceGuy007

    MRniceGuy007 Peon

    Messages:
    446
    Likes Received:
    6
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #15
    The first SEO firms started when searching has become a fad way back in 1994. Those days were Meta Tags, CTR and directory submissions were kings.

    The scariest thing that has happened as of late is Google's so called personal web history search, where it gathers your personal choice in the SERP with your CTR and bounce rate and always give you results that are related to your taste, having that is a killer to the bigger SEO firms IMHO
     
    MRniceGuy007, Aug 16, 2008 IP
  16. TheVccMatey

    TheVccMatey Peon

    Messages:
    5,347
    Likes Received:
    208
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #16
    SEO firms will always develop. Rankings are based on an algorithm and any algorithm has a logic.
     
    TheVccMatey, Aug 16, 2008 IP
  17. jasbloger

    jasbloger Peon

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #17
    But seo will become more and more difficult, and having a directory or pressel page wont give You much. Google will create better algoritms to hunt black seo companies.
     
    jasbloger, Aug 16, 2008 IP
  18. mcaronan

    mcaronan Peon

    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    4
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #18
    My perception on this thread is that whenever Google evolves, SEO methods also evolve. :cool:
     
    mcaronan, Aug 16, 2008 IP
  19. MOG

    MOG Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes Received:
    163
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #19
    one of the better more thought out posts I have read in a long time here on DP.

    I am a pro SEO'er, and have been for a number of years. amongst my projects which are not "work" related I run a number of poker affiliate sites and its interesting, some of the best seo work I have ever done on a relatively small focussed site has yielded comparitively poor results, compared to a poker forum I run which has less than 15% bounce rate - its #1 to #3 ranked for around 5,000 keywords, including some really tough stuff.

    The interesting thing is that the forum is spectacularly poorly seo'd, yet the hits just keep rolling in, between 2,000 and 3,000 uniques per day from google organic alone.

    so, as bill gates once said, content is king!

    MOG
     
    MOG, Aug 16, 2008 IP
  20. yourfinancequestions

    yourfinancequestions Peon

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #20
    Very interesting discussion. I was going to go out and buy a book on SEO, but now I'm hesitating now based on this thread. I know literally nothing about SEO, but has it changed so much that book probably isn't helpful anymore?
     
    yourfinancequestions, Aug 16, 2008 IP