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Google's new landing page algorithm causing $10 minimum bids on thousands of sites!

Discussion in 'Google AdWords' started by heybert00, Jul 10, 2006.

  1. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #141
    Whitespider, you are just the sort of person I am talking about, it is wrong wrong wrong. If your converting 1:10 then WHO THE HELL do google think they are? (this is exactly what I said in my opening post on this thread.

    I know that google are not nor have they ever really been a search company, they are an advertising company. But they MUST sit back and look at what is happening here. NO ALGORITHM IN THE WORLD is going to be able to work outmarketing as marketing is art not science. Sure there are elements that must be in place, but in marketing the BOTTOM LINE is what proves how good the job is being done, and 1:10 conversion is spot on IMO.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jul 17, 2006 IP
  2. richa65

    richa65 Peon

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    #142
    Whitespider - I feel your pain. We are in the same spot on this one. I'm converting at a rate of 23% over the last 2 years with nearly 11,000 conversions. I'm offering a free service, but still, I would say that this indicates a fairly high quality landing page. But Google doesn't seem to care about that or the fact that I'm a $24,000 per year customer.

    This will be resolved. It's just a question of how long until it gets some mainstream press here in the US? We need more bloggers reporting on the problem.
     
    richa65, Jul 17, 2006 IP
  3. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #143
    The other question of course is that if/when Google agree they 'got it wrong' with regard individual sites, will they refund the high charges?
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  4. T0PS3O

    T0PS3O Feel Good PLC

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    #144
    T0PS3O, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  5. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #145
    I've noticed no changes here, as an Adsense publisher.
     
    Will.Spencer, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  6. MrCritic

    MrCritic Peon

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    #146
    They win. None of you guys have any plans for getting them to change their minds. And my suggestion of contacting the FTC and AG, comparing G's action to being like a discriminatory newspaper, went nowhere. Sounds like we're not going to fight, we're going to bend over and take it up the yazoo.

    So, after I completely overhaul my Yahoo and MSN campaigns and get them going, I will talk to my clients about adding a bunch of keywords and text to their e'commerce front page so that Googlebot will love them again. It clearly isn't enough to sell merchandise...you have to be able to provide free info for users, too.

    I bet Yahoo and MSN are just totally wondering why their ad sales skyrocketed during the past 2 weeks!

    And here are the important links again...just in case you can be bothered to complain. (Yes, Brits can file complaints, too, since G is on American soil.)

    Here's where to file your complaint with the California Attorney General's office (Google's home state):
    h t p p s : //app.dca.ca.gov/cru/gencomplaint.htm

    You should file the same complaint with the Federal Trade Commission: w w w .ftc.gov/ftc/consumer.htm

    See ya...gotta get too busy to post now.
     
    MrCritic, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  7. aeiouy

    aeiouy Peon

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    #147
    All fine and good. What about the 90% of the visitors to your site who did not buy. Did they find the information they were looking for when they did a google search on those keywords?

    That is the important question. How many people bought from you is not terribly relevant because you are never going to have 80% sales rates.


    The biggest problem I see people having with this is they are not understanding what Google means by a quality site. It means that are the people who are not looking to buy from you today still finding relevant and useful on-topic information when they click on the link to your site. If your only quality experience is going to the small fraction of people who convert, than you are failing.

    You have to take off the salesman hat for a second and realize that you have to go above and beyond now. Forget about any product your are selling. If your site was ranked in the top 10 of the natural serps when someone clicked on it, would someone go, Wow that was a good site that gave me a lot of good information or access to good information.

    I keep seeing people talking about the CTR and other factors that are not relevant to real quality, not in the sense Google is looking for here. You basically have to have a content site to go with your sales site.
     
    aeiouy, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  8. aeiouy

    aeiouy Peon

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    #148
    Your are being extremely short-sighted here OWG. It is no suprise to me that the people experiencing the biggest problems with these changes here and elswhere are the ones who mistakenly think that conversion rate is all that matters.

    That is EXACTLY why Google has enacted these changes. People have done everything to get conversions and in the process have created a pretty poor destination for everyone else, who are the majority of people who click on Google ads. So now Google is saying, we need to fix this, or else there will be no tomorrow, because if you get zero visitors, you will also get zero conversions.

    They are protecting the future of visitor traffic by taking these steps. More advertisers should realize this and realize it will only benefit them in the long-run. And realize this.. This is only the beginning. They are going to get more efficient and more effective in making this happen, so if you find some loophole that allows you to keyword stuff a page and get by today, don't be suprised when it is gone again tomorrow.

    While the people who understand the issue and try to improve the game are the ones that are not spent chasing there tail every few months trying to get out from under the next adjustment.

    I don't care how great 1/10 conversion ratio is. The whole program depends on people clicking on those ads. If people find them more and more worthless, they will click on them less and less. Eventually the rate of clicks will be so low as to be worthless and the whole thing is gone.
     
    aeiouy, Jul 18, 2006 IP
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  9. mad4

    mad4 Peon

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    #149
    Some good posts there mate. I think you have hit the nail on the head in terms of what google thinks. Whether we like it or not.
     
    mad4, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  10. richa65

    richa65 Peon

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    #150
    aeiou,

    Here is a synopsys of what Google told me in their email:

    We believe that the ability to access MLS listings instantaneously is inherently superior to a site which will email the listings on a daily basis. Therefore, we refuse to publish your ads at the same rates that we would publish a competing company who offers instant access to MLS Listings. However, if you were to pay upwards of $5.00 per click, then Google is willing to publish your ads.

    And let me state that this is NOT a quote - I am paraphrasing. Please, please, tell me how this is:
    "protecting the future of visitor traffic"

    This is Google making a completely subjective, and in my opinion, erroneous value judgement on my business. Then completely shutting down my advertising, and finally offering the same product they are offering others for a much higher rate - without defining to me the steps I could take to get the same rate as my competitors.

    "I keep seeing people talking about the CTR and other factors that are not relevant to real quality, not in the sense Google is looking for here. You basically have to have a content site to go with your sales site."

    And I suppose that a catch-all, subjective computer algorithm is a much better measure of "real quality" than something that is actually measurable, understandable, and most importantly VISIBLE to their advertisers. Yes, I'd much rather we keep this all a big secret, that seems to work well.

    The EU will eat them for lunch after they get done with MSFT.
     
    richa65, Jul 18, 2006 IP
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  11. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #151
    Aeiouy, sorry but I really do not think I AM being short sighted here, I think it is you who has been brainwashed ;) .

    I agree with you that in some cases there needs to be a lot more information on a page, BUT, and here is the crux of it all, Google have no right to dictate this. there are people who are getting 25% conversion to sale from traffic, yet they have been punished. WHY?

    I hear what you say about the 'user eperience' etc, but for you to say 'take off the salesmans hat' is nuts. This IS all about selling, NO ONE in their right mind is going to build pretty pages that lower the conversion ratio, AND pay for the priveledge of showing them to people, WHY SHOULD THEY?

    An advert that says " buy the Motorolla Razr NOW" doesn't give a flying fig about creating a nice pretty puffed up landing page they want to SELL and nothing else! Why should Google make them deliver a load of crap on that page? I was looking for a new battery for my Razr, I clicked on an ad that said "Motorolla razr battery £9.99" , there was a picture of the battery, some VERY brief information about delivery, and a buy now button. I bought it there and then because to ME the landing page was perfect. It matched the advert, and gave me just enough info. Today though that landing page is unnacceptable to the mighty Google, again I ask WHY?

    I have to ask you what you think the purpose of a landing page in a sales campaign is? Because maybe we are talking at crossed purposes. I am talking about ecommerce PPC, maybe you are talking about brand awareness PPC or the likes, I don't know! I truly fail to see how you warrant not gauging the effectiveness of a sales campaign by the volume of sales though? because IMO there is NO other way to measure it.

    This is not personal against you, it is just that I am amazed at what you say about 'what about the other 90% ' 1:4 conversion is a great rate, as not everyone who clicks your advert is looking to buy at that exact moment. These people can click on the link into your main site and browse the rich information pages to their hearts content.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  12. mad4

    mad4 Peon

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    #152
    Whats an MLS listing? :confused: :eek:
     
    mad4, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  13. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #153
    But what does what Google want matter? If the visitors to these pages are buying then it is OBVIUOS they are good pages isn't it?

    As was stated, the EU will have Googles guts for garters for this. I have spoken to my MP , who is the secretary of state for Northern Ireland & Wales (as well as a neighbour :D ) It will be interesting to see how this develops. I have spoken to trading standards, and a barrister friend, and he and they are of the opinion that this action definitely contravines EU trading laws.

    As the saying goes, may Google live in intersting times. :)
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  14. richa65

    richa65 Peon

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    #154
    Sorry, I need to define my terms :) - The MLS is a standard service here in the US. It is where virtually all real estate for sale is listed.
     
    richa65, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  15. mad4

    mad4 Peon

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    #155
    Well, they are the ones that decide how much we pay per click, for now. I agree with what you are saying but until somebody tells google their policy is illegal/wrong we just have to either pay the price they want or make our landing pages more informational.
     
    mad4, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  16. Cristian Mezei

    Cristian Mezei Notable Member

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    #156
    What the heck .. I'm paying them so that they can tell me : your page is not educational enough ?
     
    Cristian Mezei, Jul 18, 2006 IP
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  17. mad4

    mad4 Peon

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    #157
    Thats what it looks like to me. They want information pages rather than pages just designed to convert.
     
    mad4, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  18. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #158
    Google has the right to refuse to do business with anyone, as long as it is not for one of the legally proscribed reasons (race, color, creed, national origin, etc...).

    Google is owned by its investors, it is not public property.
     
    Will.Spencer, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  19. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #159
    Agreed Will, but it is STILL bound by the laws of the land in which it carries out business. And in this case it is NOT refusing to do business with someone, it is trading unfairly. I ahave a strong suspician that this is illegal under UK law, as the charging system MUST be transparent. they can not do what they are doing and stay within the EU and UK trading standards laws. Scales of charges MUSt be transparent, and this system is not.

    Although I can not speak for US law.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  20. timothy104

    timothy104 Guest

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    #160
    its a case of one bad apple spoiling the whole bunch :cool:
     
    timothy104, Jul 18, 2006 IP