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Google!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Search Engine Optimization' started by GeorgeB., Apr 13, 2006.

  1. whateverandever2

    whateverandever2 Peon

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    #21
    Well on my site the main page never stays the same, I update daily (And archive everything), nothing I can do about that, sites need updating.

    I don't really understand all this really, there isn't anything you can do about a sites main page content updating if a site needs updating.
    SEMrush
     
    whateverandever2, Apr 13, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #22
    What says your main page has to constantly change? I have already given you the answer, but you seem to have chosen to ignore it :(

    Visitors and the site model demands fresh content on the index page. So give it to them, but deliver it in such a way that the serach engines will not spider it! Deliver it in javascript if you must, ANYTHING will do as long as the search engines can not spider it.

    Build up the static content so it gives the spiders something good to eat and process, and exclude them from reading the dynamically changing element. Think about it for a moment. If they can see the random quotes and spider it, they are delivering a rating based on content that is NOT AVAILABLE to the visitor when they get there! This is the basis of my saying to exclude the rotating content from the spiders. You want to be rated on what you do, which is mind games and riddles. The dynamic element should not be spidered as it will not be there when the visitor gets to the site.

    Excluding it will result in a far better page to evaluate your site with.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 13, 2006 IP
  3. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #23
    I dunno folks. This whole content updating theory seems to be standing on too much shaky ground and maybes. Anyone got any solid documented proof of this?

    I mean there are sites out there that update hourly and even sooner (diggdot.us) and I see it ranking high for keywords that "used to be" on it's homepage all the time.

    Are we saying that there's been a cosmic shift in the SE algos that countless professional SEOs don't know about? Fresh updated content for the spiders every time they visit is not only not a GOOD thing to have anymore but it will now get you penalized???

    Please note the following statement is not written with the slightest hint of sarcasm it's my take on your theory and I would like feedback:

    It just feels too much like you just made that up as you were typing. You're asking me to go against so many well known rules of SEO. I mean for starters you're telling me to hide the main content of my site from spiders. You're then telling me to take the rest of the static content that the visitors aren't interested in and make it look (to Google) like a plain html page that never updates.

    Not following.
     
    GeorgeB., Apr 13, 2006 IP
  4. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #24
    Here is a quote from the Google advice for webmasters page. I have added it here to get your focus away from imagined words I am saying, and onto cold hard facts.


    Ok George, firstly let me say that I am a full time SEO and a bloody good one as well. I am not some clown who just got off the boat, I have worked on such sites as Norwich Union Insurance in the UK, and Adobe in the US. Hopefully that will help establish my credentials. ;)

    I will try to answer your questions one by one (but am now sorry I replied as I appear to be beating my head against a brick wall. You asked for an answer, I gave the answer but as it was not the answer you wanted you refuse to want to accept it. (this is normal behaviour don’t worry LOL)

    I dunno folks. This whole content updating theory seems to be standing on too much shaky ground and maybes. Anyone got any solid documented proof of this?

    Solid proof? Hmmm let me put it this way. Some 70% or more of your content is changing on every visit of the search engine. So if when the spider visits you have a set of riddles with the actual word ‘riddle’ in the anchor text of the link, then your going to move up the table most likely. Next time it visits, that relevant link is no longer there, so you move down, there is no ‘theory’ here, it is plain logical FACT.

    Google as I posted earlier, the only things Google has to run through its algo is your page content, and backlinks. Google keeps ONE copy of your page in its cache. Why can you not see that changing this copy will affect your rankings, it is beyond my comprehension that you will not.

    I mean there are sites out there that update hourly and even sooner (diggdot.us) and I see it ranking high for keywords that "used to be" on it's homepage all the time.
    Absolutely, and they rank because they are seen as authorities. When you get millions of visitors a day, you will build up monumental natural backlinks to your copy. People will link back to the pages they see at that moment, using anchor text that is relevant at that moment. You can not compare your site to a major authority site it is crazy to do so, until you also stand alongside them. You can get a page with the word ‘dog’ on it, to rank for the word ‘cat’ if enough backlinks with the word cat are achieved. Backlink anchor text is monumentally strong.

    Are we saying that there's been a cosmic shift in the SE algos that countless professional SEOs don't know about? Fresh updated content for the spiders every time they visit is not only not a GOOD thing to have anymore but it will now get you penalized???
    This statement is totally off the wall here (sorry) Are we saying there is a shift? NO we are not NOTHING has changed, listen to me once more PLEASE ‘how can you expect your rankings to stay the same when you change 70% of your page content? Honestly it is THAT simple. EVERY SEO (who knows what he/she is talking about will agree with this statement, I fear you are talking to the wrong SEO’s) ;)

    Who said ANYTHING about a penalty? People are so quick to throw the word ‘penalty’ around. Who said anything about a penalty? Read the simple statement above. Where is the penalty? Google is running its algorithm on your site if your content is different you can expect to be treated differently.

    just feels too much like you just made that up as you were typing.

    That’s about right, because there are no stock answers I copy and paste. Again, say the mantra if you change your content your rankings will change.

    I mean for starters you're telling me to hide the main content of my site from spiders. NO I am not that is the point I am making. I gave you a couple of options, one of them was to ensure that the content you rotated on your front page contained keywords in the titles, but you have chosen to completely ignore that option (which can be achieved dynamically in minutes)! IF you chose to ignore that option then the only other logical option is to keep the rotating information away from spiders.

    Dude please accept that I am not fighting you here, I am trying to help you for free! You are already getting ranked on content that is not there when the visitor get to your page as it rotates, why can’t you see that? HOW can this be the main content when it is not there constantly? The content that rotates is there to deliver a fresh user experience to the visitor every time. It is NOT the core content of your homepage as it is NOT a constant. This content should not be used to rate the relevance of that pages as it is not there when the visitor gets to the site.

    You're then telling me to take the rest of the static content that the visitors aren't interested in and make it look (to Google) like a plain html page that never updates.

    So visitors aren’t interested min your navigation links then? Visitors are not interested in any of the content on the front page? If that is the case then you should ignore on page SEO and just build links after links after links, and bomb your way to the top. This is not a good business model for long term. You are putting words into my mouth by stating 'you are telling me' when I clearly am NOT, this is your understanding of what I am telling you which is a different thing entirely :( Why MUST you have ALL the riddles rotating? Why not have a riddle on the month fixed? you can then optimise this as content. for both visitors and spiders? this will drop the ration from 70/30.


    Please explain to me what is wrong with a plain HTML page that never updates? Changing you home page content is a step that should never be taken lightly.

    Hopefully now I have explained things to you and answered your questions, but I feel you will never accept what I am saying, ,mainly because you are not reading what I am saying enough. You have chosen to ignore one of two options I gave you. (I am sure you know that the last 2 options of doing nothing and cloaking the front page were meant as a joke :D, if not then you don’t know me) . I am 100% white hat, and have clients ranking in very competitive industries. Such as insurance mortgages and sex toys.

    You asked for a solution, I gave you the reason why what is happening is happening (because I will state my reputation on it because it is such a simple reason. You're changing your on page content but expecting your rankings to stay the same. This is naïve and unrealistic and goes against the most simple basics of SEO. No major shift in thinking honestly. I think you have read too much into what I said. Hopefully now I have simplified it for you.


    But one last time I say

    you can not change the content of a page and not expect it alter your rankings! and this is a fact that even a schoolbot SEO should know
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 14, 2006 IP
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  5. Cristian Mezei

    Cristian Mezei Notable Member

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    #25
    Man ... I gotta hand it to you ... You like to write .. :eek:
     
    Cristian Mezei, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  6. MrGeeK

    MrGeeK Peon

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    #26
    One of my sites index page hasn't changed in years apart from adding one or two new menu items in, and the co-op.

    That site currently is ranked number 1 for 6 of my key keywords/phrases, has a few at 2, 6, etc.

    The point is it's 99.9% static, rarely changes and does well in a very competitive field.

    My biggest problem is that I want to update that page because it looks so bad...but I'm not prepared to risk it.
     
    MrGeeK, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  7. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #27
    LOL. Well I like to be clear in what I am saying ;) I am passionate about the job I do, and I feel it is important that people understand it :)
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  8. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #28
    Well... it makes sense now so I think I have a few changes to do. I'll definitely look at adding the keywords to each one like Riddle #1 Riddle #2 etc.

    I guess even though I told you not to take my remarks as sarcastic you did anyway. But that's a good thing because it got you fired up and brought a good argument out of you... :D

    One question. I'm finding it difficult slipping the word Riddles (plural) in there while still making sense. But I think I've seen Google be smart enough to rank sites well for both the plural and singular term. So you think I'd be OK if I use Riddle instead of Riddles?
     
    GeorgeB., Apr 14, 2006 IP
  9. TangoUK

    TangoUK Guest

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    #29
    If I understand this right, your site is only 2 months old, and you've already lost patience with Google !

    You've got a long long wait ahead I'm afraid. Get cosy with Mr Sandbox ;-)
     
    TangoUK, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  10. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #30
    HI george, Google is quite happy to stem the singular to the plural, but add the plural to the static copy on the page, and also in the anchor text pointing back to the site ie. 'top brain teasers and riddles'.

    As for the sarcasm bit, not at all. I am what I am. Pig headed, stubborn, aggressive, (and those are my good points) :D I am sure that now we have connected you will get the site to where you want it to be.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  11. andheresjohnny

    andheresjohnny Well-Known Member

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    #31
    Well I learned more from this thread than anything else I've read all week ... maybe all month ... from any source.

    Thanks folks.
     
    andheresjohnny, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  12. TheHoff

    TheHoff Peon

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    #32
    Yea OWG should charge admission to the thread :)
     
    TheHoff, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  13. andheresjohnny

    andheresjohnny Well-Known Member

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    #33
    You got that right. I feel like I've been in class.

    I don't know what to do next ... rush to start making changes to my websites ... or start searching this forum for everything OWG has ever posted.
     
    andheresjohnny, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  14. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #34
    Guys you have just made my week. I know I am an opinionated bugger, but I am passionate, and the reason I visit and post in forums is because I love what I do. How does the old saying go? we fight the hardest for that which we believe in the most :)

    If I am wrong I am the first to admit it (just view all posts by 'Old Welsh Guy', you would think I was trying to rank for the keyword 'sorry' LOL). I dig my heels in when I am sure about something though, and it has often cost me dearly :( but has more often cost my client more when they refused to accept the advice :( This made me unbelievably sad. I can only take on a limited amount of clients, as my time is finite. I turn away clients all the time, so there really is nothing in it for me to give bad advice. When I see a client site making money I get the buzz, when a client refuses point blank to accept my advice it breaks my heart, as I see it as a personal failure.

    I am odd bastard really LOL
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  15. maldives

    maldives Prominent Member

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    #35
    Not surprised.

    Hint: You will learn even more if you read all the posts by "Old Welsh Guy". His posts are well written and informative :)
     
    maldives, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  16. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #36
    By the way I should state that I have no formal qulifications really as my parent were both alcoholics (reformed now thank god) so my spelling is terrible, my grammar is worse, and I type with a Welsh accent. ;)

    Oh and I rarely if ever re-read posts, I type from the gut. (which is why there is often bits of Pizza, kebab, lager (light beer) on the screen. :(
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 14, 2006 IP
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  17. PeterHugo

    PeterHugo Guest

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    #37
    This must be for me the most read and re-read treath. Yes I also have learned a lot from OWG. He believes so hard in what he says... So it must be worth while to try.... I even like your style... you are hard but friendly at the same. And comes back again and again to explain it us one more time. I wished I could ask you so much questions and hope for your answer.
    So for now on we call you Sir Old Welsh Guy.
    I give you for free a link at my website (PR5) as a linkpartmer... Thanks Sr. OWG for the words of wisdom... I'm still a little confused how to redesign my freeware site but your advice will be in my mind.
     
    PeterHugo, Apr 14, 2006 IP
  18. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #38
    You can now, I have set up a blog www.oldwelshguy.co.uk anyone can ask a question and I will blog it.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 18, 2006 IP
  19. maldives

    maldives Prominent Member

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    #39
    Good looking site. You can expect some questions in the coming days :p
     
    maldives, Apr 19, 2006 IP
  20. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #40
    It is a bit of serious fun really. What I mean is that I will reply seriously, but with a lighthearted approach. Work, like sex, should be fun, if it isn't then your either doing it wrong, or in the wrong job ;) .
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 19, 2006 IP