I don't think MSN understands it's own language at times Google is number one, it's new stock value of over $500 each helps show that too Yahoo is 2nd because there pretty on it and have always been a semi search engine since day one MSN is 3rd because they have money to throw at it but haven't been listening to people on how to improve search. With the appearance of Live.com and MSNdude, they've been improving IMO, not much but still a movement. Ask is 4th and is trying to get into the game seriously, they got TV ads, they tried re-brandishing themselves by getting rid of Jeeves () but they ain't out of it yet