Here is a little excerpt from Matt Cutts blog. How does this relate to hidden Span elements and Hidden Links for the purpose of navigation? That top frame you refer to is part of every framed page on the site, but also this top frame banner housed hidden links using the anchor Text Las Vegas Real Estate and Henderson Real Estate all pointing back to your homepage but out of public view. Lets not forget all this is stored in the wayback machine. If they were not intended for spamming than why the ><SPAN style="visibility: hidden">< link text with keyword rich anchor text like Las Vegas Real Estate and Henderson Real Estate? You can view this type of spam all the way back to 2001 from here http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://http://www.greatlasvegashomes.com/top.htm Google states in their webmaster guidelines and unless I am not understanding them correctly, Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content. Your non framed and frame have the exact same content. Also if they were not meant to manipulate the results why do the framed and non framed pages of the same content have different title tags? If you check the pages you have indexed in Google http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:www.greatlasvegashomes.com&btnG=Google+Search You will see several of those duplicate pages indexed. So therefore it does increase the size of your site and text, title and anchor factors for Google. Are you also aware that you have this type of hidden elements on your site as well style="visibility: hidden; font-weight: 700">Your Las Vegas New Homes Specialists!</span></p> its not just those keyword rich elements but also others throughout your site. Diann you are not stupid, you know what those mean in relation to help you rank in Google. My issue has always been you call me a spammer but never offered one piece of proof. Your Google # 1 rankings were achieved by this type of spam and you should not be rewarded for it. We wont get in to it again but you also have a HUGE link farm, but that is for Google to discover. We all know what it means to be # 1 and the income it produces, so therefore not only myself but others don’t like to see sites benefit from those type rankings when they were acquired by unethical methods. The other issue Google has to deal with is the fact, most new webmasters don’t go copy what the site that’s ranked 100 does but the site that is ranked # 1 does. So if your site is gaining its rankings by spamming then other webmasters will see this and copy it believing it is ok and Google doesn’t care. luvdavy, we all know your are Diann's best friend so it is understandable for you to take up for her actions. You have multiple sites that interlink helping to create this HUGE link farm you two have. Is a matter of fact your sites are 38% of her link partner farm. You are right it wasnt on the homepage, but on over 200 pages with the primary key phrase link hidden in the the frame. Its quite obvious how you got number 1 to begin with. Is that the case now, NO but you never would have got that ranking otherwise. I am sure Google is going to take a hard look at your duplicate content of the framed and non framed pages. They are 100% identical. Your time at number 1 is limited. The new algo Google has released will see to that. Bye Bye all those recip links and link farm. Googles guidelines state, Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. Hell most of your link partners are getting screwed anyway. Google doesnt spider past 100 links. If they check their backlinks they will see they are not getting credit for their links coming from your site. Diann and Jan maybe you two can come up with another excuse to wiggle out of this cause what you have just said is the only BS on this thread. So who is the SPAMMER? See Diann ( Vegasagent)and Jan ( luvdavy) this is not some Realtor forum where most of them dont understand Seo, you have some of the brightest minds in Seo on this forum, so your claims of its only spam if its deliberate dont fly here. This might help you as well Diann, hurry and check the rest of your site, there is more spam, but I will let you find it before Google does.
Fortunately for me, Wayne, these are professional SEOs, webmasters and web designers on this site and they are all probably chuckling right now after your last post. You obviously have no conception of how a frames site works, so let me explain it to you. The non frames version is merely the exact same page - not a second or duplicate page with the same content - which can be accessed outside of the frames. And the top frames page is not 200 pages - it is one page only. That one page appears as part of the frame set along with the framed page that has the content. And the navigation links that were on that one frames page were as much an innocent error as when you had hidden text on the bottom of your las-vegas-homefinder.com site that was the same color as the background. (I never bothered to point it out to you as I could see that it was an oversight and not deliberate spam.) That one frames page on my site with a handful of internal navigation links never helped raise my rankings - hard work and lots of original content did. I do find it interesting that you did not bother to respond to the well documented fact that you copied my original content on your Atlanta site and then refused to take it down. I even tried to give you the benefit of the doubt on that and only took action when forced to after allowing you a 30 day grace period. Also there is no mention that you have tried to link with everyone that has my site listed many times and have been unsuccessful. Thirdly you did not mention your relatively recent PM to me that said you apologized for everything you had ever said, that you were wrong and sorry and wanted to bury the hatchet. My response was "sure, let's live and let live" and then all of a sudden you started up again. Wayne, there are at least another 499 sites between you and the top of Google. What you have started here is a obviously a personal vendetta which I only respond to when attacked, as I usually don't post on forums. This is a waste of everyone's time and has not gotten you anywhere in the past two years. Google's probably looked at my site at least 100 times just for you reporting it every second and obviously they find nothing wrong with it. Why not just move on to something more productive? Lastly, here's a piece of good news for you - I am planning on retiring in a couple of years max. The site will go to the highest bidder at that time - maybe you should just buy it! I understand from one of your other posts that you plan on making 5 to 7 million this year - as that would make you one of the top five agents in the country (perhaps the world) you will be well able to afford it.
Diann, you have a lot to learn. You seem to miss the point that not only myself but also Expertu has pointed out. That frame for the top banner you have, housed hidden links using a ><SPAN style="visibility: hidden">< This has nothing to do with your navigation. This framed banner is on everyone of your framed pages that was producing hidden links pointing to your homepage with the anchor text Las Vegas Real Estate and Henderson Real Estate. Yes they are different, as they both have different urls, title tags and meta tags. Check the wayback machine to see creation dates and source code. These pages are meant to manipulate serps. You use them to offer more pages to your link partners, to increase the size of your site and also to boost your internal link benefits with anchor text rich keywords. LOL I will say this if it isnt a violation using the frame verses non frame, hell I will take all 100k plus pages I have and do the same. This should increase my internal link benefits for Google. If you want to know what Google thinks, read the guidelines below. Once again, Googles Webmaster Guidelines state. Diann that one banner which you still dont understand spans across your whole site. To explain it so you even understand. If this framed Top banner is located on say 200 pages, thats 200 pages that you are receiving hidden keyword rich anchor text links from, this has nothing to do with navigation. Navigation is links that the general public can see, those they can not, when they visit your site. Those links there were not visable to the public, they were hidden. I think you are confusing the links you had at the top of the pages that could be seen from the non framed versions, these links were totally different, they were hidden from public view inside your source code, hence this tag was being used SPAN style="visibility: hidden Before you go making claims about Framed VS Non Framed and spam techniques you need to learn what you are talking about, I say this with all due respect. As for original content, you mean the content that was created at ABC or other newspapers where you have added that content on your site? As for another 500 sites between me and the top of Google, you are right but these sites dont spam. Also if you knew what you were talking about you might realize that this site which was launched Dec 3rd all ready has a top 20 rankings for allin factors, which is a good indicator of what rankings are soon to come. Now imagine what 90 more days is going to do for this site and those factors. I believe if you also check, several minor keywords for our market, you will see I out rank you on most and until now, you controlled them. My site is better looking, more informative, larger and better designed. Its only a matter of time. Diann you have to realize, its not just me but several others in Las Vegas who have this problem with you. As I said before, you have more spam but that is for Google to deal with and not me. You have been exposed and I know it has to be hard for you to explain this. LOL is a matter of fact, one of your other competitors even told me before you posted what you would say. As for my income earnings and buying your site, I honestly wouldnt want a site that looks that bad. Plus you are narrow minded, my income earnings are based off more than just Las Vegas, but how would you know that. A good piece of advice for you, I tell you this cause truly I know you wont find it, nor will Jan ( luvdavy ) but you have more spam in your site. You did what I wanted you to do and that is, respond to this, so there is a record of your response, here and on Matts Blog. Once this other spam is looked at on your site, you lost any credibility with Google. Retirement may come early for you. I promise though I will take good care of your agents. One last question though, have any of your agents been leaving you with that uneasy feeling like someone was watching you? PS: What happen to your Dmoz listing for Las Vegas?
1. spam is spam - that silliness about "we just forgot to take that invisible text out" is as lame as "I didn't post that - it was my little brother using my account" 2. I certainly don't condone plagiarism but I would note that you are trying to distract attention from your little hidden text "mistake" by attacking LVH about something that happened almost two years ago and was rectified - by your own words: Your "little oversight" on the other hand was current up to 24 hours ago or less.
Minstrel, you're wrong about what was on her site. Wayne has been stalking her for several years. We, and several others have been over her site with a fine toothed comb trying to find anything that could hurt or get her in trouble with the search engines because we KNEW he was spending half his time looking for something to turn her in about. Anything that isn't right on her site was done by some web designer years ago. She eventually learned how to use Frontpage and works on it herself now...she has very little knowledge of design and wouldn't know how to put something on a frame from anything. I've never worked with frames enough to know much either, and I don't have time to look at every page of her site to find hidden problems. Neither of us are stupid enough to deliberately put any kind of hidden spam anywhere...and something like what Wayne keeps harping on wouldn't have helped her worth a damn anyway...certainly not enough to take a chance on being kicked off all the search engines. I can't believe you would think anybody was that stupid. The so-called "link farm" that Wayne keeps harping on is nothing more than all of the real estate agents in the US linking with all the rest of them. This has always been the case in one way or the other with the ones that knew about links, and now almost ALL of them are doing it. Companies like Real Estate Webmasters are keeping databases of agents to interlink them to each other and have built a business around it. Advanced Access, the biggest real estate webdesign firm out there, sends out a weekly or monthly newsletter with its members' link information listed to get them all to add each other to their sites. They sit at the right hand of the Google Gods...so if that was a no-no, they wouldn't be doing it. Linking with other real estate agents is the tightest themed linking anyone could possibly do. I even do press releases with 5 or 6 of us at a time talking about the area's real estate offerings and statistics, and they are extremely popular. Our group of associates has been together for years now, and we know each other. We are not a link farm...we are a group of friends and business associates who promote each other's listings and refer customers back and forth all the time. Diann has listings for my customers on pages of her site. She has new condos in Vegas listed on several of my sites as well. Same with several of the other agents. Wayne is eaten up with the green monster because he's alienated every agent in the US by his nasty deeds and accusations, and nobody will help him or work with him anymore. There is much more going on here than you know about, believe me. This has been going on since I had the misfortune of meeting him...back when he had the same vendetta type thing going on with SEO Guy...and I was foolish enough to get in the middle of it and defend the wrong side. It's hard to remember there are always two sides to every story, but that is always the case. Jan
Jan which is it, you have been over her site with a fine tooth comb OR you dont have time to look over every page. Isnt that a contradicting statement? Your right Jan but when you have those link partners create multiple sites for the same real estate market, just to create a larger link farm to manipulate the serps even more, this is where you have to call it a link farm. Diann has said on Matt Cutts Blog that these links are for referral business, nothing more. Well if its for referral why not place nofollow tags on the links? Also why would these links have to be on multiple pages/sites for the same agent. Why would these links be located on several pages within a domain. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...quack quack ..its a duck. Jan part of your statement is correct, I did alienate several agents, when I told them Diann was a spammer, when I was part of that group, but no one wanted to hear that cause she had a top ranking site, well now we know why that site is top ranking, for SPAM. I do feel sorry for you, as you are letting blind faith cause a poor choice in judgement. I guess when your partners get nailed for linking to Diann or they get penalized for this link farm, that is going to be my fault as well. How many links do you see on my homepage? ZERO..ask yourself why. As for the keyword rich links most of you have on your homepage, it is to increase the relevancy of that page for city plus real estate, in a way to manipulate the serps. Face it your link farm is made up of agents who have multiple sites, multiple directories and even a few sites that dont even relate to real estate, all with multiple links with different anchor text all pointing to eachother. Can you explain how this attracts business from consumers. I dont know about you but when I am looking for a certain product from that site, I dont go looking at a websites link partners. Google is not stupid, they will soon penalize those who participate in this farm, just as Yahoo has already done. As I advised Diann, maybe you need to find a few more people to go over her site cause I am just a Realtor LOL and I found even more spam techniques. Hurry though cause I am sure Google will be paying attention to this. Please though I know you want to redirect the focus of the hidden links, but that is something you cant deny. If you like I can post a link to the screen shot I took of several pages showing the source code along side the picture of the site.
I'm not trying to redirect the focus of whatever spam that was on there anywhere. I never even saw it....just your version. She removed it immediately, of course, and it has had no effect one way or the other on her rankings, which anyone should have known to start with. We all have several websites that target different neighborhoods and different types of property...condos or houses, luxury or residential. You yourself have about 10 sites, or you did the last time you sent one of those emails bragging about how you were going to "take over the Las Vegas market and leave Diann crying over losing her number one place". How many of those emails have you written over the last 2 or 3 years, Wayne? How many partners have you gone through? Have you EVER reached number one or tumbled her? No. You've pissed off so many realtors your name is legendary now. You inspired a spoof website about you that probably WOULD have made number one if it had stayed up. I was the only friend you had, and now you've alienated me as well. One would think you would see what kind of person you've become and change...but obviously that is NOT going to happen. I tried to look over her site. It is so big, so full of content, and so GOOD, that I don't have time to look at every page. Admittedly she probably needs to hire somebody just to check everything on there and remove anything that is left over from the old days. Are there any SEO people here that would like the job? One thing you can rest assured about...Diann PAYS her web people. And no, she's not my client and never was. She's my friend, and one of the most outstanding real estate agents I've ever run across. And I know a helluva lot of them. She, Annette, Jeff Manson, Fran, Jim Olenbush, Jason Crouch, Caesar, Debbi Ferrari, Andrew, Joe Russo, David O'Connell, Steve McIntosh, Jay Daignalt, Bill Gibbons, and many more are the best in the business, and they are all associates and friends. The best in any field eventually meet and join forces. It's what makes them the best. If we eventually get in trouble for banding together, then so be it. Jan
I'll answer this one. When Diann moved from Century 21 in Las Vegas to Prudential Americana in Henderson she made a request to have her listing changed. Because of the change in cities her listing has been moved to: http://search.dmoz.org/cgi-bin/search?search=greatlasvegashomes.com In addition, there are some that have and will make numerous requests to have their listing or listings included in DMOZ and it will never happen. You may be in that category.
Well it seems that Google shows the site 390 pages on a normal datacenter, but the Bigdaddy DCs have reduced her site to 142 WOW thats a large real estate site. LOL I have one section of my navigation for my site that has more than 142 pages. A loss of this kind of indexed pages shows that Google is now starting to take action. Also her BLs count within Google has been reduced, while all other top ten sites were increased. Wonder why? Really, you told me once in an email that you were getting tired of doing work for her for free..hmm. All partners in the link farm. I will agree some of them are outstanding agents. However some of them have been mislead by Diann's claims, only because they are blinded by her ranking. We have already seen what happens to those in that link farm who disagree with her. Take for example the way she places links to some of them. LOL ...we all know Google doesnt spider past 100 links, yet she has some of them way down on her link farm pages where they wont get credit for the links. Also and I guess this is a mistake on her part as well, but not placing the right url or using an anchor text she breaks the letters in the word up so the anchor text isnt complete. Jan I know you are her friend but hidden links, accusing others of being spammers and then being caught spamming yourself, doesnt look good. Yes it was inspired by another one of your link partners who's 3 brinks short of a full load, LOL he created a site with Century 21 in the domain name, not to bright ( BTW Did Century 21 Contact Him for trademark violations ). This was a man who claimed to have worked for Microsoft as an engineeer and was worth millions but lives in a 130k home thats not paid off. He is also the one who has created a ton of directories to inflate all the link partners link count as well, one of which is HERE No one has tumbled her, but now we know why, its because her site was spamming and using hidden links along with a few other little secrets, those I wont expose just yet No Matter what you say no matter what you do, Diann's is now shown to be a spammer. Defend her try to protect her, you cant change the fact that she got those rankings by spamming.
You know that sounds a little like a threat, I wonder how Dmoz might feel about a statement such as that. Whether a site of mine gets listed in Dmoz or not, will not affect the site, it only affects those looking for the best quality Dmoz has to offer.
You are so wrong and so full of BS that I'm not even going to waste my time anymore. I could say plenty, but I'm tired of the nasty games. You have fun. It's what you do best and apparently you have the time. That's pretty telling. Seeing as how Diann has never asked me to do any "work for her", that statement is more BS on your part. And I seriously doubt that I would ever have said anything to you about her anyway. Try again, Wayne. Then again, I dont' care anymore. I don't have time for this.
That is not a threat... just the facts. You might consider reading: http://www.dmoz.org/add.html which includes... "not to have the directory include all (or even most) of the sites that could possibly be listed or serve as a promotional tool for the entities listed" and "or that we otherwise believe, in our sole discretion, should not be included in the directory."
After all the rhetoric, we're still talking about a current/recent example of invisible text vs. something that reportedly happened in May 2004. It still looks like the old "distract and confuse" smokescreening technique to me. Regardless of what happened in May 2004, what has that got to do with invisible text on your website now? This is the DMOZ technique -- don't answer the question -- attack the person asking the question and hope everyone forgets what the question was.
The point is we are talking about the difference between intentional wrongdoing where the individual had to be forced to do the right thing by his own server after being given over 30 days to correct the issue (this is not something that reportedly happened - it is documented as even Wayne has to admit) and an honest mistake that was immediately and voluntarily rectified within minutes. And the text is not on the site now. Just FYI, Wayne also had hidden text on the homepage of one of his sites and we did not castigate him for it as we felt it was probably an honest mistake. It was pointed out to him on Matt Cutts blog by someone else who discovered it and his excuse was that it was an old site. Funny enough I do believe him on this one. So please tell me where is the difference and why are you so much more forgiving of him?
You don't see this a little like a child saying "yeah but what he did was worse"? "The point is" that whatever happened two years ago on his site has nothing to do with what was until today happening on your site, does it? Yeah. I read it. Did you not see my response?
As this is now becoming a huge waste of time this will be my last post on the subject - and Wayne - if you think there is spam on my site why don't you just email me with it directly and I will remove anything that has validity immediately. You say I can't possibly catch it, obviously then you know it was not deliberate or I would know what and where it was. And if there really is spam and it is really what has made my site rank well, then you will have what you wanted very easily without ragging on the poor people at the Search Engines because I will remove it and drop like a stone. The End!
What is your relation with JustTheFacts? The reason I ask is because from his posting it sounds like that he is your friend and he has listed your site in DMOZ while keeping everyone else out. Is this right?
If only I had remotely anything like that power! If I did I would be the only one listed in all of Nevada. So of course the answer is no. Good night.