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Google to drop DMOZ?

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by clasione, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #21
    Daamsie it is a completely separate product, just like the toolbar is right?
    SEMrush
    One would not have any effect on the other?

    Adsense and Adwords are separate products but they have no effect on the search engines organic results either?

    If Google were to take money for inclusion in a directory that would not give any incentive for them to list companies in the organic search engine results?

    We do live in the real world, correct?
     
    anthonycea, Feb 24, 2005 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Crazy_Rob

    Crazy_Rob I seen't it!

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    #22

    Have you ever heard of a little program called "Adwords"? :D
     
    Crazy_Rob, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  3. schlottke

    schlottke Peon

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    #23
    "I'm not sure I follow why it would have a higher PR if they weren't 'feeding' the data. Providing they don't link to it from their front page, I would expect it still to be a PR8. Since when does the PR algorithm take into account whether or not the content is from a feed?

    The only way that their directory would get a PR10 is if enough other sites linked to them (or google changed their site's internal linking structure); simple as that. Well, I guess they could manually tweak it, but I doubt they'd bother. "

    If they put that much effort into a product, it'd become a PR10. I think its pretty simple to see that if they released something this big, every related site would be linking to it, as well as themselves...

    "For the last time, PR means nothing, get rid of the foolbar"

    riiiight. A link from a PR8 or PR9 page wouldn't help you any more than from a PR0 page...
     
    schlottke, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  4. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #24
    I don't see Google stripping down the current directory rather than stopping to accept new DMOZ results and instead requiring a fee to get new listings in. That would be the easiest way to do it.

    It may no longer be about what the best long term strategy is, I believe they are getting more and more short sighted and pressure from the stockholders will not help when it comes to making the most beneficial decisions.

    About PR - the whole structure is a-changing, who is comparing PR9 to PR0? :rolleyes:
     
    Blogmaster, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  5. schlottke

    schlottke Peon

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    #25
    You are sitetutor, by saying PR doesnt matter.
     
    schlottke, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  6. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #26
    Yeh, PR does matter when it comes to such a high difference in numbers. It does have some relevance statistically speaking.

    but many members here focus on it so much, they lose track of their strategy.


    Relevance of content and weight of the domain you are linked from is far more important IMO.
     
    Blogmaster, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  7. Crazy_Rob

    Crazy_Rob I seen't it!

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    #27
    What leads you to believe this?
     
    Crazy_Rob, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  8. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #28
    Not sure, just watching the pattern. Less of an interest in fixing what is broken and more of a focus on exhausting the power source they have created. Yahoo and Overture create more revenue than Google, right?

    I think the guys who created Google are no longer into it like they once were and will be giving in to suggestions which will benefit them financially.

    It's kinda of like the Wild West once was, land was free. Now we're standing in a commercial mecca.

    it's just the way human nature works IMO. If you have something worth something, you eventually focus on benefitting from it once the initial fire and excitement has burned down.
     
    Blogmaster, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  9. Crazy_Rob

    Crazy_Rob I seen't it!

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    #29
    Not much more.
     
    Crazy_Rob, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  10. daamsie

    daamsie Peon

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    #30
    The 'foolbar' PR as you call it may not mean anything, but the ACTUAL PR is still a very important factor in SEO. But yes, you can't really judge a site on what the toolbar says these days, as it seems to perpetually be out of date by several months.

    Conspiracy theories aside, there is no base to such a claim. Sure, people would get a boost in the engines by paying to be in the directory (thanks to the decent link), but the same goes for ANY directory you can currently pay to get into. You can pay your way to the top of the google index without much trouble at all really, so why shouldn't google be the one being payed??

    What's more, if google were to do the reviewing, presumably they would do enough scrutinising to ensure crappy sites don't pay their way to the top. In a lot of ways it would be better for the search results than relying on OTHER directories' approval mechanisms (like DMOZ).

    Ok, well following on from that argument, you might think that Google News or Google Images would be able to do better than a PR8. There's plenty of effort that went into those and they even have a link off the front page. Sorry, but you're making no sense. A PR 10 is simply not that easy to get, even for Google (unless of course they manually tweak it, which there's no good reason to believe).
     
    daamsie, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  11. schlottke

    schlottke Peon

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    #31
    " weight of the domain you are linked "

    What do you mean by that exactly?

    The IMAGE search and NEWS don't require hundreds of people working to review sites, they use similar algorithms as the search itself and are not directly linked from the main domain.

    http://www.google.com/services/
    and
    http://www.google.com/ads/

    Both are, and carry PR 10.

    The arguement wasn't about the Damn PR anyway, it was about the fact that wasting their time on such a stupid creation as another directory would be totally pointless. If you don't agree with that, then I'd love to hear why you think it would be profitable to have a couple hundred people working to review sites and remain *unbiased* for only a couple million dollars in annual profit each year.


    If they had 50,000 sites in the directory, charging $300 a year, that is $15,000,000 gross, before paying for all of the resources needed to manage that (employees, additional servers, food, benefits, etc) ... They'd be better served working on continued improvement of adsense..

    Ofcourse I could be wrong, but I just don't see why they'd totally change their ways and gear towards a non-algorithmatically solved problem, in the directory.
     
    schlottke, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  12. daamsie

    daamsie Peon

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    #32
    Yes, they are linked from the main domain. Albeit with some url variables which can't help in passing PR. Obviously somethiing they don't care about all that much.

    Hey, you were the one who brought up the PR issue. I was only responding because it seemed like a crap argument.

    50,000 sites? Seems to me there would be a somewhat larger market than that. The ODP has over 4 million sites, or so they say. I mean, if you had 200 people reviewing sites, you'd think they would pull in more than 50,000 * $300 in that year. A full-time reviewer should be able to do 20 sites a day. To get 50,000 sites reviewed in a year, you'd only need about 10 reviewers (and they don't need to have a PHD either, so shouldn't be the most expensive of employees!).

    I'd say 500,000 sites a year would be a better estimate though (based on my imagination only). And in that case, $150,000,000 should leave plenty of room for taking care of the costs with a fairly tidy profit on top of that.

    That I can agree with and that's pretty much why I doubt they would do something like this; it's just so very UN-google. Then again, you never know what shareholder pressure could achieve. And really, what kind of algorithmic problem does Google solve with Blogger.com? They've already changed their ways in other areas of the enterprise.

    And to me at least, a little "Google Reviewed" icon in the search results would be a nice feature. :D
     
    daamsie, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  13. schlottke

    schlottke Peon

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    #33
    You know what, I agree with everything you just said!
     
    schlottke, Feb 24, 2005 IP
  14. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #34
    PR is a sideshow and is a marketing tool of the Google engine that webmasters have on the mind, the average surfer could not care less what PageRank is nor do those who shop for goods online. It is something that is part of the toolbar which is something that Google uses to manage their business in real time given in return for page links and page rank gauge. It is more important to SEO and webmasters versus to the average guy on the internet.

    PageRank has brought on all of the buying and selling of links that contribute to the lack of integrity of the search index and the "so called buying your way to the top".
     
    anthonycea, Feb 25, 2005 IP
  15. Haichi

    Haichi Well-Known Member

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    #35
    So we should all hate PR now?

    If the toolbar does not show true PR what is the best way to find your true PR?
     
    Haichi, Feb 25, 2005 IP
  16. kepa

    kepa Peon

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    #36
    It really can't be that many as a large chunk of it are sites the were abandoned...by either the webmaster themselves or the DMOZ EDITOR THEMSELVES! Dead for years! They don't work on old crap and clean up the house, they just want to index more sites, which is why the quality of what is in there is so poor - yet they are quick to spew out these AWESOME numbers...

    A paid directory could be more biased, but at least there would be quality standards. If there really is a value added by a directory (which I'm not convinced there is), then why not it be paid if it is truly a good source of info?

    It's all about control and DMOZ is out of control as each editor does their own thing, based on their own work ethics and their own whims. Not all of them are honorable like cbp.
     
    kepa, Feb 25, 2005 IP
  17. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #37
    True! It used to be a lot more and they must have thought "Hey, we are #1 in popularity, let's cash in on it."

    I mean, if I was the Google owner, I would be upset that the ones less popular make more dough ...
     
    Blogmaster, Feb 25, 2005 IP
  18. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #38
    I really doubt the previous owners of google care much about that. They have long sinced cashed out. That's what an IPO is for.
     
    Mia, Feb 25, 2005 IP