I saw another thread about the Google Sandbox and here's my theory on the "Sandbox": I don't think it exists!! I think it's just a matter of Google going through their quarterly PageRank updates and you finally appear high in the rankings when you have a decent PR. For example, consider this case: 1st Jan: You build a site 2nd of Jan: You start promoting the site and submitting to directories etc. 15th of Jan: Google finds your site and also keeps finding links to your site 31st of Jan: Google indexes entire site 15th of Feb: Google updates PR based on 3 week old cache that shows that you have 5 links (as Google hasn't found any others). Moreover, the three week old cache only contains your home page and no other pages. So, Google awards your site a PR1 (Say). The other sites in your industry have a hefty PR of at least PR5 or higher and they beat you hands down in rankings You keep continuing your promo work and get 500 links (say). 15th of May: Google updates PR again based on 3 week old cache that shows that you only have 200 links. This could be bacause the cache is 3 weeks old PLUS the fact that Google might not have done a full crawl on some of the sites that have linked to you. You get a PR4. You're still nowhere to seen!! You whinge about the Sandbox but keep up the hard work!! 15th of August: Google updates again and you get a PR6. You're on top of the rankings and top of the world. You tell your friends that you are finally out of the "Sandbox". This is just my theory anyway, i.e: There is no Sandbox! So, to test it I've created this poll. Now, if my theory is correct then sites should be "released from the sandbox" during a PR update. But, if there does exist a Sandbox then websites should get out of the Sandbox at different times depending upon when they go live or when they are first cached by Google etc. Please note that I am talking about the internal PR updates which create havoc with the rankings and not a toolbar PR update which essentially does nothing (apart from giving you that warm fuzzy feeling). P.S: I am of course hoping that I am correct about all this and that my website will miraculously appear in the top 10 once Google update the internal PR (fairly soon)
Build a good site, submit it to DMOZ, the moment it gets into DMOZ, submit to Yahoo! Directory and you'll never experience any delay in rankings.
Hmmm. Interesting advice. I manage three sites at my work and I personally own two. None have been accepted in DMOZ (not yet anyway). There are people out there who wait for months to get into DMOZ. I think DMOZ is a bit over-rated to be honest. It is a good link (no doubt), but with all the negative feedback the editors get I am not sure if relying on DMOZ to keep you afloat is a very good idea. Before this turns into a DMOZ smashing thread (got heaps of those already), let's get back to the Sandbox!
I HATE DMOZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding There are certain sites that Google validates enough to consider your site old and rank worthy, DMOZ is one. Better than getting links in fast is to wait a little bit and see if an editor gets you in. Once you're in, you'll be good to go. Of course, if you can't get in do Plan B: submit to Yahoo! Directory before any other link is coming in. That might do it as well.
Well, I'm just about to launch a couple of new sites on brand new domain names - all my other ones have been on stable older domain names. So I'll be able to judge for myself if this so called sandbox exists or not. If the sites aren't in the top 200 after a month of promoting, then I'll be happy to say that there might be a sandbox. If I wait until I get the sites into dmoz, then the new domains might be classified as old and established before I come to any conclusion
sitetutor: would it be a good idea to ban robots from the site until you get that link from yahoo Directory or Dmoz?
I have never experienced it! I can't say though if it's because it doesn't exist. I launched my last site in october (the domain was "in construction" since september), and get first page listing in the 3 majors just a few weeks later. Never dropped after that and still improving ranking on a lot of keyword phrases. Lucky? I don't know. Or like Sitetutor says, there should be a way to avoid this so called sandbox effect. I'm sure there's a way. If the sandbox effect exist, shouldn't be the same effect for everyone?? Just askin.
The only thing that has been consistent about G for almost six months is their inconsistency, so it would not be the same for everyone. I think they have injected a randomness factor into their algorithms just to keep the SEO world guessing.
I think it can be some kind of overoptimization penalty. I'm thinking of doing a test site with really crappy optimization but a clear subject. Get links with crappy anchor text like: "click here". Then after Googlebot finds it optimize a bit, get some better links (but not yet for my target keywords). After each gbot visits again optimize a bit more and more. IF the site ranks well after 2 months or so I think it can be said that it defeats the sandbox.
I agree wholeheartedly...... Some lucky sites seem to receive a much higher than expected reward in PR, and some sites for no good reason are dropped from the index. I beleive that G is engaged in a war against spammers, and that inlcudes an attempt to create chaos.
Very good, Google and MSN are just algo's. Yahoo too but I have heard it gets hand edited. You just need to beat an algo, I wonder how many SEO's have some kind of reverse engineering testing ground... sitetutor: Even if its a week I wouldn't take my chances with Google these days... I'm going to completely redesing my major money making site( major for me ok) , instead I will do another site on the same subject (it will be very different so hopefully no dupe content penalty ), and try your method + banning robots until I get dmoz or yahoo. If it dosn't work ill be knocking at your door!!! j/k .
Kalius, it does work! But like I said, it depends on DMOZ. They have a ton of power which is why we have so many DMOZ threads.
Will a link from Yahoo! Directory show as a backlink? Looking at one of their links it doesn't look like it will. http://uk.srd.yahoo.com/S=172302711/CS=17230271/SS=38931170/*http://www.example.co.uk/ I don't have a site in it so I have never looked to see if it shows as a link.
I have one site in the UK that I think may be in the penalty "sand" box but I'm not sure. Based on it's status, I belive it is but obviously I have no way of knowing for sure.
Or, maybe we give Google too much credit. Maybe their programmers are clueless and the incorrect "link:" results, inconsistent toolbar PR values, "sandbox" etc. are all there because they can't get their sh$% together!
I had my domain alldotnet.com in sandbox for about 6 months. Along with that I had another site was in sandbox too. I was not paying attention to alldotnet domain and was almost un-touched for some time. Around two months back, I created a directory at alldotnet, placed google ads, used that as signature in some of the forums. With in 10 days the site was out of sandbox and in the latest PR update it got a rank of 2. For the other site, I searched the domain on google and left a feedback at: http://www.google.co.in/quality_form?q=domain&hl=en&lr= Within 2 weeks the site was back in google and in the recent PR update, it has been ranked 3. BTW, this site doesn't have any google ads and didn't used this domian in any of my forum signatures. So not sure what worked, but it worked.