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Google HAS HAD IT with Search Engine Optimization STrategies!!

Discussion in 'Google' started by ! !, Apr 26, 2004.

  1. #1

    Google is NOW frankly coming out with it's straight talk about many of the concerns that they have been fighting with

    Google apparently does read this and other SEO forums and will take action depending on what is posted in the Google Sections...


    Here are FRANK SEO do's and dont's - with no punches held
    backhttp://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html

    http://www.google.com/webmasters/seo.html

    (they even chastize an SEO)

    =========================================
    SEMrush
    This one really attempts to lay it on the line in plain english


    http://www.google.com/webmasters/facts.html


    ==========================================

    Oh my God - Is GOOGLE SUGGESTING we use Yahoo Directory

    http://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html


    :shocked!:



     
    ! !, Apr 26, 2004 IP
    SHT and SEbasic like this.
    SEMrush
  2. hans

    hans Well-Known Member

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    #2
    there is NO need to panic at all
    but sometimes may be a reason to improve REAL overall quality of products, services and content offered.

    many OTHER SE have proven it
    it may take many millions of accumulated working hours
    years of most intense advertisement, development and hard work to get INTO business and among the front runners in business

    and ONLY ONE major mistake BY a SE and that Search Engine is more or less TOTALLY out of business ...

    after ALL the many once very popular and very active SE ( like Excite, altavista, infoseek, Yahoo, ... )
    i am quiet sure that NO single human being and even less a group of human beings within a SE management can EVER be THAT s. again to waste all the work and investment to LOOSE all within days or weeks.

    values such as the currently named 20 Bio $ for G
    are merely VIRTUAL values and can drop into near zero within a few days only. SEOs having started near zero and grown big sometimes can lose contact to RERALity and losse all at once ...

    i have directly witnessed such HUGE major companies going near broke or broke just because of some "monkey business" and LOSS of contact to REALity.

    AFTER and BEFORE ALL

    YOU the web publishers should always be free of ONE single SE
    and focus ON YOUR customer satisfaction

    NO single SE EVER can afford to dump high quality web sites MEETING customer NEEDS.

    customers SEARCH until they find what they really need
    and they change SE until they have an SE that brings the results they NEED to REALLY be happy !

    total referrers April until April 25th: 2789
    and direct hits are 20+ % each months

    Google.com 1.48% http://www.google.com/search
    and all other national Googles all together another FEW percent totaling approx LESS then 10% of all referrers


    while Google IS the single greatest referrer AMONG SE - but FAR form the greatest source of referrers !! ALL MY eferrers are built up by a majority of minorities adding to the growning total
    G or Y is in NO way a factor of life or survival ! NOR should it be for ANY of you !!

    the second SINGLE SE domain just behind G is a Bangladesh SE ( FREE links page bringing REAL surfers surfining pages and reading content !! )

    the key to such independency is to OPTIMIZE by simply having clean code, clean quality content, considering ALL known editor rules
    that apply to ALL SE

    DIVERSIFICATION is the key to quiet and peaceful sleep in stormy times

    JUST keep the rumours in mind about MS and G
    buying shares or NOT ...

    do YOU really want to be behind gates paying bills ???


    SE's CEO learn fast - WE webpublisher ALSO need to learn ! EVERY individual always can learn INFINITELY faster than ANY company !!
    and adapt faster to NEW markets and NEW needs.

    QUALITY is the power that keeps all surviving all disasters and DOWNS.

    NOW is the time to prepare and BE strong and NO single SE or business EVER can afford to dump strong people
    providing strong content for the needs of mankind !


    all week ones who simply clone other online business instead of CREATING may run out of contention and business.

    ALL strong ones always survive - like in Jungle !

    the strong trees survive and grow anywhere and above all ...
    while the week ones die and dissolve to make space for stronger ones to come again in their place.

    AS of TODAY (April 25th access_log file ) MSN bot has almost doubled its crawl against last months ...

    strong competition prevents ANY of the "big ones" to EVER play silly ego-games with anyone out in the www business

    TOO huge the $ IN now - and TOO deep any possible drop for all if out of business.

    Y results are getting excellent in their relevancy - so do MSN results ...
    and almost all other SE as well.

    HOW to get MORE direct referrers ??

    by providing QUALITY that ATTRACTS and helps searchers - to make them so happy that they refer to your site ( without any back links )
    in their blogs, private forums, personal homepages, business web sites, ...

    just keep the simple math in mind

    from my small website with a little more than .5 Mio hits /months

    2789 referrers between less than 0.01% and max 10 %

    if you have 1000 referrers each bringing 0.1% --- that gives 100% total traffic

    recently i found one free4all link page that brings me

    if G drops totally out
    that puts me back about 10% - that is the bimonthly increase in traffic - ... nothing more.
    no pain and no real loss at all
    just 2 months MORE work and all is back to normal !

    the same with ANY other "major" ( minor SE )

    EACH of them FAR less than 10% of traffic.

    to ONLY or mainly focus on G is unfair to all 100+ other SE and forum and www services that bring all other traffic.
    by serving ALL and HELPING each other in your own forum you get so many cross references and people entering through "back doors"
    of individual pages linked somewhere in the ww-web that G may just be an important factor for all beginners and then
    become secondary and useful only to find a primary source of information such as THIS forum and other MOST valuable forums.


    btw

    did u know that G has so far never entered the RSS news feed arena and dozens of OTHER SE share all that among themselves - including Y - always use ALL possibilities to promote your valuables and you never have to worry if ONE SE is dancing crazy ... and drowns.

    whatever happens among all thes SEOs - keep smiling and WORKING ...
    after EVERY war - peace and sun shines again for all !
     
    hans, Apr 26, 2004 IP
  3. relaxzoolander

    relaxzoolander Peon

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    #3
    that dude cant calm down.
    just look at his member name.
    he is inherently excited.
    :D
     
    relaxzoolander, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  4. Dirkjan

    Dirkjan The Dutch SEO Guy

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    #4
    why do people often talk with caps lock on and off? that distracts me terrible.
     
    Dirkjan, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  5. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #5
    Dear oh My Why All the panic? This information has been on Google for ever almost. In fact I use those very pages as part of my presentation to new clinets who have been approached by people who claim to be SEO's but are in fact cheaters/spammers/rogues/whatever you want to call them.

    The plain fact is, that any company who goes against the terms and conditions set out by the search engines, DESERVES to be punished, and, further more, while I feel for the innocents who get trawled along with the rogue company. Frankly they should have taken the time to research the market place.

    Many of my new clients start their mails or telephone calls with 'I had this company to do some promotion work on my site' They want a professional service, but think that they can buy that service for $25 a month, it is a joke.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 27, 2004 IP
    Jim4767 likes this.
  6. expat

    expat Stranger from a far land

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    #6
    Don't I love this fixation with G.
    SEO SEM is not for G it's for visitors. If they want what you have and they don't find you on G they'll find you on another engine.
    It's no longer search find & buy. Its search bookmark evaluate/compare decide buy.
    Peon, maybe you should expatriate to Europe, here G is fast loosing market share and there are some very good alternatives.
    No more sleepless nights mezmerised by a dancing bear and clients phoning at the unreasonable hour of 9am wanting to know what the hell is going on.

    M
     
    expat, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  7. ginostylz

    ginostylz Well-Known Member

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    #7
    No normal person I know (non web) uses google if they search, they don't know why they use google. They just do.
    Optimizing for google is very close to optimizing for users.
    A site map is a good if your navigation is confusing, or if you have those dropdowns menus.
    Using anchor text allows the user to know what they are clicking on.
    If you link to a company, you usually use the name as the anchor text. Like if you link to walmart, you'd normally use the anchor text walmart. You arent really optimizing for anything.
    The title really shows up in the title bar, and if you minimize the browser, the text in the title bar shows up.
    Meta tags are near worthless. but still used
    Imbound links are important with or without a search engine. You need to get business somehow. No one links to a bad website, well some people do, but GG is catching on to newer techniques like subdomain spam and a billion links on one page.
    SEM is more for the site owner to worry about. Management is important, For the first time I attached an affiliate program to my adwords account so I can see how effective my campain is. I quickly bumped my 11/day budget to 20/day! Now that was a good call.
     
    ginostylz, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  8. ginostylz

    ginostylz Well-Known Member

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    #8
    At least Google tries to raise the bar for good results. Competition is a good thing!
    And I hope other SE's can overcome Google. Even though GG is my favorite, I'm not to pleased to hear that their results directly controls my salary :(
     
    ginostylz, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  9. Atlanta Realtor

    Atlanta Realtor Peon

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    #9
    In my humble opinion. I think the only reason G has gotten to where they are now is because of people like us in this forum. Once again an opinion if G starts to play around with its listings and people are not finding what they want.. then we as consumers will move on to the next SE.

    Even though I am in real estate. When I search for real estate in any state or city and I see results like newspapers, directories, plus a number of other websites that have nothing really to do with what the search is intended for this makes me as a consumer want to go to another SE to find it.

    I believe that G is to busy trying to fight with the SEO's instead of trying to really put up relavant results. When in real estate someone searches say My city real estate...they are looking for a real estate agents website...not a directory or newspaper...but today you seem to be getting a lot of those type of returns.

    One thing that I have noticed within the real estate industry and web rankings is that most of these sites are nothing but spam...so G instead of trying to remove these sites and fixxing that problem they throw non relative sites up and try to fight with SEO's that even though they are throwing a ton of backlinks and everything at G to get a nice looking site ranked that isnt a site spamming keywords within the site.

    To prove this look at major cities like Atlanta... Las Vegas... any city in California... Austin Texas and so on. I will say Las Vegas seems to be the worst.

    Sorry for being so long winded...so the point being as fast as G climb up that latter of success they can fall right back down it..if they keep toying with relavant results...and yes I would say this if I was ranked as # 1 for my search phrases..if you look at my site that will happen but with the sandbox effect its going to take a couple of months.

    Any comments or suggestions I am open to them. I dont expect everyone to agree with me.
     
    Atlanta Realtor, Apr 28, 2004 IP
  10. Such Great Heights

    Such Great Heights Peon

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    #10
    I agree with all of this. Just make your site useful to visitors and you will get more traffic naturally. Search Engines try to find the useful sites by using algo's because that's how computers think. It's fairly logical, and this is a main reason I like ethical SEO. It not only helps get better rankings, but improves my site for the actual people using it.

    Making the Internet easier to use, better looking, more informational, all with less "bloat" is my goal, and search engine's naturally want to find sites that do this.
     
    Such Great Heights, Apr 28, 2004 IP
  11. expat

    expat Stranger from a far land

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    #11
    IMHO G is not fighting SEO's from their view it's a speck in the ocean.

    4.200 Mio pages 200 Mio queries 10% unique(ish) showing 30 results = 600 mio potentials leaving 3.600 in the sump.
    SEO'ed pages: lets say there are 10.000 real SEO'ers each looking after 1000 pages it's just 10 mio pages out of 4.200 or 1.5% of the displyed results. Assuming it's flat but I think it's reasonable to assume that SEO is concentrated in just a couple of categories / search areas.

    The mistake of G was to increse by 25% instead of decrease by 25% and run the algos faster and tighter.

    Y has the right idea. Solid content sites will be in or make it in, small sites and sites in a hurry can get in for a one off and may have to pay when someone clicks but hey they stand the same chance as the big boys.

    If one gets thrown out, well a one off buys you back in and it signals that you put your money where your page is.

    So just relax and build content and watch the play.
    M
     
    expat, Apr 28, 2004 IP
  12. hans

    hans Well-Known Member

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    #12
    1.
    i have more than 300 keywords checked - presently on a daily basis
    i never saw any playing ( toying ) by Google !

    2. the few sites i reviews - the last one today on "Googles Answers" - that lost his ranking
    ALL together lost PR and SERPs for only ONE single reason

    totally WRONG code, NON-valid code, GROSS mistakes, code-SALAD
    approx 9 out of 10 sites i review have NON-valid code
    most of them gross multiple mistakes

    and - some of them are rather important sites with excellent appearance - but NO SERPs NOR PR
    because impossible to cleanly crawl. hence they end up somewhere in total darkness of #x00 or further. down

    hence ALL errors by web designer only and no single % part of Google if SERPs bad !!!

    my self i am VERY happy with Google and in recent times with Yahoo as well and i actually always
    ( with zero exception ) think and feel that Google is fully supporting my own web publishing efforts !!!

    like being ONE team pulling in ONE direction.

    re non-relevant results:

    depending on the industry - you meet people who HAVE web sites that simply are terrible by any means of SEO

    hence millions of actually relevant sites are lost for the one and only fact that they have ZERO SEO

    aby my own terms and definition
    SEO is:
    clean validated code
    clean completed meta tags
    all pages empty of destructive invisible code
    correct server settings ( .htaccess )
    clean character encoding
    correct character definitions
    clean data flow and data structure with PROPER H1/H2..alt .. anchor texts ... etc
    real quality content
    correct spelling
    overall quality and surfability of site by human AND Bot !


    many valuable sites are low in SERPS because these people simply focus on OUTER appearance of site
    instead of first of all focusing on CLEAN and correct data structure.

    hence
    sometimes you see even top 10 pages with almost ALL wrong SEO for that particular useful combination of search terms
    and the result then is that a NON-relevant site may have LESS errors accidently than a relevant site.

    such low SERPs are VERY easy to overcome - just by REALLY kicking your own ass and really improve SEO
    improving SEO never means any dirty trick but CLEAN and FULL application of common sense rules and all knowledge and recommendations as per W3.org
    and all common sense recommendations for webmaster in G, Y and ALL other major and minor SE and directories.

    i have NEVER seen or experienced ANY SE being even the very smallest bit against SE ...
    that they avoid spam, abuse and cheating is NORMAL and has nothing to do with being against SEO.

    instead of kicking non-relevant sites out - just IMPROVE the quality and be better than spammers.

    a spammer may have one position ahead of you in SERPs BUT far below you in real quality content ..
    IF he is ahead of you in SERPs then just because of YOUR POOR SEO and poorer content than HE may have.

    and

    sometimes it is enough to be #3 or #7
    sometimes its tine to bow to others and accept that others also have a right to be #1 in their field.
    UP TO YOU to PROOF your quality and stand up for it with real action to follow your words.
    NO spammer can do that
    YOU can do ! if you WANT to be GOOD !!! experts always survive. each can be a true expert IN HIS field of activity he LOVES to do,
    we all are one team - SE plus site owners plus visitors
    G knows that quiet well
    Y forgot is for a while and remembers now
    MSN will find out soon if they want to be part of the family

    always focus on improving quality - always focus on the Good part of life
    and you never have to worry about the bad ones around you

    if you have such around you
    then you simply are far from Good enough to be ahead of them among Good ones in quality
     
    hans, Apr 28, 2004 IP
  13. hexed

    hexed Peon

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    #13
    I've seen this post around on a couple sites. There is nothing new discussed on this article and most of the issues Google has been dealing with for quite some time.

    Hexed
     
    hexed, May 3, 2004 IP
  14. ! !

    ! ! Guest

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    #14
    :eek:
    Newly added:


    http://www.google.com/corporate/software_principles.html








    (so new it has not even been cached

    --____________________-__________________________-_

    http://www.thewhir.com/find/articlecentral/story.asp?recordid=877&page=1




     
    ! !, May 19, 2004 IP
  15. t2dman

    t2dman Peon

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    #15
    Hmmm. Almost nothing, because a competitor had just played havoc with my rankings for Nigritude Ultramarine (and of several others). See my Webproworld Nigritude Ultramarine posting, and that of the person who managed to ruin it (hopefully only for a time).

    From the Google link given above:
     
    t2dman, May 19, 2004 IP
  16. hexed

    hexed Peon

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    #16
    Isn't it sad what some people will resort to? It's no different than corporate america though. In corporate america people do a lot worse things every day :p

    hexed
     
    hexed, May 19, 2004 IP
  17. ! !

    ! ! Guest

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    #17
    ! !, Jun 1, 2004 IP
  18. schlottke

    schlottke Peon

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    #18
    I don't think its the optimization stratgies they've had it with, I think its blatent cheating. Seems to me that this will always occur in new, mutated forms though.
     
    schlottke, Jun 1, 2004 IP
  19. ! !

    ! ! Guest

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    #19
    Remember the "Controversy" regarding WHEN.COM Cloaking and being dropped by Google & Yahoo - they have now been given another chance - they are now on the SERPs again
    :eek:


    ____________________________________​


    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=whenu
    http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3354171
    http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/whenu-spam/
    http://www.tweakxp.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=14644

    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=whenu&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t&cop=mss&tab=


     
    ! !, Jun 21, 2004 IP
  20. Dominic

    Dominic Well-Known Member

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    #20
    It would be great if Google penalised these sites or removed them from their search results.
     
    Dominic, Jun 21, 2004 IP