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Google and Links. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's NOT how to do it!

Discussion in 'Link Development' started by Foggy, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. SeoVeteran33

    SeoVeteran33 Well-Known Member

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    #81
    My friend, let me present to you one of the biggest link traders I have ever seen. Pornhub.com. Maybe you've heard of them?

    1) Pornhub is top 100 alexa

    2) They have so many 3 way links out there that I lost count (and I don't actively look for them, I just notice them passively)

    3) They have bought boat loads of links on websites everywhere (again just an observation)

    BUT.. They rank for every single adult term known to man... Why?

    Surely Google's algo would detect their 3 way links since patterns are "so easy to detect"? By your logic, shouldn't they have been penalized a long time ago? Google has no clue... because they cannot accurately detect 3 way links!!! :D
    SEMrush
    Now if tomorrow, I wake up and Pornhub disappears from Google along with all their other network sites that so vigorously and obviously deal in 3 way links, I will take back everything I said.
     
    SeoVeteran33, Jul 27, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Merkersarl

    Merkersarl Peon

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    #82
    Classic causal confusion.

    If someone in the top 100 always wears brown shoes I'd better wear brown shoes too so I can get in the top 100.
     
    Merkersarl, Jul 27, 2009 IP
  3. Foggy

    Foggy Link and Site Buyer

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    #83
    Dglassman26, if you notice their 3 way links and you can do it just "passively", why do you think it's beyond Google's capacity to find them?

    I don't know how well pornhub ranks but if they're doing a lot of link buying in addition to various other efforts then you can't really put their ranking down to three way links.
     
    Foggy, Jul 28, 2009 IP
  4. dmi

    dmi Well-Known Member

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    #84
    Completely agree with Foggy. Great post, and very true.
     
    dmi, Jul 28, 2009 IP
  5. SeoVeteran33

    SeoVeteran33 Well-Known Member

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    #85
    ???

    I don't trade links or do 3 way linking.

    I'm simply arguing the point that Google cannot accurately detect 3 way linking.

    You don't need to be in the top 100 to make money off the web!! In fact, you don't even need to be in the top 10,000!! LMFAO
     
    SeoVeteran33, Jul 28, 2009 IP
  6. SeoVeteran33

    SeoVeteran33 Well-Known Member

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    #86
    You answered your own question. If I can accidentally notice 3 way links, then shouldn't Google be able to detect them at will and 100% accurately?

    Google: porn, porno, xxx, or sex to see how well pornhub ranks.

    I don't put their entire ranking down to 3 way links. There are 200+ factors Google uses. Bounce rate, page views, age, time on site, links (including 3 ways), etc., etc.. No doubt that Pornhub is a top notch site, I'm just using them as an example - this isn't a knock against them and I'm not arguing why they rank.

    I'm saying, if Google could detect 3 ways links, then why hasn't Pornhub been penalized? Wouldn't Google know and be like, ok they're cheating, let's penalize them. But it hasn't happened.... why? Because Google can't tell!
     
    SeoVeteran33, Jul 28, 2009 IP
  7. James_P

    James_P Peon

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    #87
    Since when does Google use bounce rate, page views or time on site in their algorithm..?
     
    James_P, Jul 28, 2009 IP
  8. fkay

    fkay Member

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    #88
    submission to directories is useless too?
     
    fkay, Jul 28, 2009 IP
  9. Merkersarl

    Merkersarl Peon

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    #89
    Google doesn't completely penalise a site for using three way - that would be too obvious!

    You can't take the fact that the site still ranks as evidence of anything, particularly not as evidence that one particular SEO tactic of theirs does work. Google may be penalising them for 3 way by including a negative aspect to their score or Google may be ignoring it - you don't know either way.

    Again, you can't take the fact that you can't see Google's action as proof that they don't know about three way. If all the evidence points to the fact that Google has the technology to know then you can take it as a fairly safe bet that they do know ;)
     
    Merkersarl, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  10. HDfan

    HDfan Peon

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    #90

    I've never thought of submission to directories as being worth doing.
     
    HDfan, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  11. SeoVeteran33

    SeoVeteran33 Well-Known Member

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    #91
    I'm assuming your question is serious.

    I'm not sure when but my guess would be the moment they allowed every webmaster to use Google Analytics free of charge.

    Google is known for wanting any data that could help them improve their search algo and Analytics is a huge part of it. With Analytics, they gain tons of relevant data about individual websites that can then help them improve their search results.

    Personally, I am all for Google using Analytics to improve search. Why not? It's a great tool and a smart move by G.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
    SeoVeteran33, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  12. SeoVeteran33

    SeoVeteran33 Well-Known Member

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    #92
    Last summer hundreds (perhaps thousands) of sites were heavily penalized because they had excessive reciprocal links. Google detected what they deemed to be cheaters, took action, and gave out huge penalties.

    Now you're asking me to believe that Google knows about all 3 ways links but simply chooses to do nothing??? LOL

    WRONG.

    I do know one way or the other. They are NOT being penalized. As I stated in a previous post, do a google search for: porn, xxx, sex, or porno and tell me where Pornhub.com ranks?? #1 for all 4 terms. LOL. Where's the negative aspect? (Sorry Pornhub, nothing against you, just using you as my example)

    What evidence? Name some evidence that points to the fact that they know. I just named evidence that points to the fact that they DON'T know. Give me a counter example.

    What you are saying is that Google knows about one of the biggest 3 way link traders around but chooses to do nothing about it. That is equivalent to saying that the FBI has located one of the biggest Bank Robbers in existence but chooses to do nothing about it!! LMFAO
     
    SeoVeteran33, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  13. coolsleek

    coolsleek Active Member

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    #93
    About the 3 way linking.

    I am doing 3 way linking with 2 of my sites would call A and B. A is the linker, B is the linked. This morning I was searching for B (using URL), I saw my site A. I haven't linked A to B. I was surprised. I believe google has detected my sites.

    What I would advice is that if you are doing 3 way linking, get another host to host one of the site and block your WHOIS information.

    From a black hat view, don't add or use anything of google on the linker blog. No adsense, analytics, google toolbar to be used on the linker blog.

    I don't believe directory submission and blogroll linking doesn't work, but that is my take.
     
    coolsleek, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  14. Mrmedia

    Mrmedia Active Member

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    #94
    You don't know what you are talking about OP.
     
    Mrmedia, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  15. yall

    yall Peon

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    #95
    great article,the promotion of ubiquitous,SEO just the subject
     
    yall, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  16. CEFashion

    CEFashion Member

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    #96
    Really insightful, thanks a bunch for being so thorough!
     
    CEFashion, Jul 30, 2009 IP
  17. HDfan

    HDfan Peon

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    #97
    If you're going to say that, how about giving reasons as to why you believe the OP doesn't know what he is talking about?
     
    HDfan, Jul 30, 2009 IP
    Foggy likes this.
  18. Foggy

    Foggy Link and Site Buyer

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    #98
    HDfan, it's likely that's just a post count thing ;)

    I prefer Dglassman's posts even if he doesn't agree with me. That's because his posts provide the reasoning behind his arguments. And that's a good thing.

    Dglassman, small fly in your ointment. You seriously believe that Google can't detect 3-way, don't you? And the reason for your belief is that you don't see implementation of bans on 3 way players, right?

    What if I told you that Google knew about reciprocal linking for years before they took action? (You think they only just learned how to detect reciprocals?!) Would it suggest the possibility that they know about 3-way now but aren't playing their cards (or playing their cards in a way we can't detect just yet)?

    What they did in the reciprocal situation wasn't outright bans but a negative scoring. People with reciprocal programs (not the small time players but the huge reciprocal "farms") had to do a lot more of other SEO work to overcome the negative scoring from the reciprocals. G's next move was wiping out the PR of pages called links.htm or similar. It was years before Google took more directly noticeable action on reciprocals.

    Today, the scene is different. Google is more cautious about what it gives away. It realises that the secret to reduce PR selling is not to completely ban the PR seller but to reduce the PR of his pages. It plays the game in a more astute way. I'm surprised you hold out that Google doesn't have the technology to detect 3-ways, I have no doubt that it does. But one thing we do know about Google - they won't issue a press release to say they can detect most 3-ways and how. ;)

    BTW, how big is pornhub's 3-way linking program? I see evidence of a lot of comment spam kinda links to pornhub, not 3-way. Any pointers as to why you think they have a particularly large 3-way scheme in operation?

    If the bank robber is in a corrupt third world dictatorship and intelligence indicates he's planning on flying through the US with some friends in the next few months it's sometimes better to sit and let the game play out a bit than rush to Lawlessistan to get slapped on your face. Watching and collecting data gives more webmasters the chance to make the hole they're digging bigger and bigger. But I guess a lot of that rests on whether you believe Google can detect 3-ways or not ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
    Foggy, Jul 30, 2009 IP
  19. Glow_With_Us

    Glow_With_Us Peon

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    #99
    I have long stated that directories are a waste of time because who actually uses directories these days. People look for info will find it in the search engines. If no one is using them, they have no value, including SEO value.
     
    Glow_With_Us, Jul 30, 2009 IP
  20. SeoVeteran33

    SeoVeteran33 Well-Known Member

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    #100
    Thank you. Same to you. :)

    Google has known about reciprocals forever and a day. Thing is, it took them something like 2 years to successfully implement detection of them into their algo. See, not all reciprocals are bad and evil. Google needed a way to find the bad ones. The link farms, etc.. It's not as easy as you think.

    With 3 way links, it gets even harder. Think of how easy it is to create a 3 way link relationship accidentally? I have one taking place within my sites right now. How does Google know that was unintentional? They cannot detect intent.

    Again, Google cannot accurately detect 3 way links. I do take back one thing though. I said it was impossible to detect 3 way links. It's not impossible if you're an idiot and use the same sites over and over. What I want to say is that it's impossible to accurately detect ALL 3 way links meant to improve search position.

    Now maybe someday Google will be able to detect most 3 way links that were done with evil intent and that'll be the day that we'll notice a whole bunch of cheaters penalized.

    I think the biggest hurdle is that people assume Google knows all. They don't. People think that they know every 3 way link, every paid link (don't even get me started), every site you own, what you had for supper last night, and the name of your dog.

    If you polled 1,000 webmasters as to whether Yahoo can detect 3 way links, you might get 1 who thinks yes they can.

    Google is seen to many as an omniscient force or god but in fact they are just a company obsessed with search engine technology. If they had the capability to filter out all of the spam, 3 way linkers, paid links, etc. from their search results right now, they would do so.

    Sure.
    1) I have personally received lots (as in about 8) of e-mails from people who work for Brazzers (the company that owns Pornhub) asking me to do 3 way link exchanges. Often, I get the same e-mail from them sent to multiple sites that I own as if they had just sent a mass e-mail.

    2) I see links to them EVERYWHERE on small adult sites. Sites who obviously did go ahead and do a 3 way with them.

    3) You won't find them on DP but on forums geared more toward Adult, I've seen countless threads of theirs looking for "Links with PR"

    4) They have countless threads on forums looking to buy "Sites with PR" (so they can use them to do more 3 ways)

    Again. Just casual observation.
     
    SeoVeteran33, Jul 30, 2009 IP