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Google and Links. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's NOT how to do it!

Discussion in 'Link Development' started by Foggy, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. cowsgonemadd3

    cowsgonemadd3 Well-Known Member

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    #61
    It was not a trick it was a miracle.

    By the way people on here really need SEO info like this as they just do not know this stuff.
    SEMrush
     
    cowsgonemadd3, Jul 21, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. desktops

    desktops Peon

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    #62
    Google PR is not real, purely for entertainment!
     
    desktops, Jul 22, 2009 IP
  3. petes1980

    petes1980 Peon

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    #63
    Great post Foggy, good to see someone with common sense rather than following others like sheep! rep added

    I am heading more and more into using content and link baiting to get links rather than blog commenting/directories etc etc. As you say, one good PR can produce far more links than other spammy methods.

    For information, i had a PR0 site at the number 1 spot in Google for 5 years, it is now PR1 and still number 1 in google (for its main keywords!).

    I have one question tho, i'm still a bit new to the outbound links thing. Can you give a comprehensive list of the types of sites you should NOT link to as they can damage your sites rep. I have a couple of moderated blogs on sites which offer dofollow links, some of the links i am in 2 minds whether they should be allowed or not.
     
    petes1980, Jul 22, 2009 IP
  4. Foggy

    Foggy Link and Site Buyer

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    #64
    No, but I can tell you what pages are good pages to link to. Pages that are already in the top rankings in Google (provided they pass your own smell test), pages that have original material that is really useful to the visitor (even if Google hasn't found that site yet) and, above all, pages that fit in naturally with the narrative on your own page. The Make Money Online article is a case in point. Spend some time and study the outgoing links there if you're really keen on finding out more.

    Comment links are a different matter. I have no doubt Google puts a different value to comment links in a blog than the links the blog owner has voluntarily inserted in the article.
     
    Foggy, Jul 22, 2009 IP
  5. CandyCottonLover

    CandyCottonLover Banned

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    #65
    Well I could say its 40% for entertainment and 60% for $$. Not really agree if its purely for entertainemnt ^^.
     
    CandyCottonLover, Jul 22, 2009 IP
  6. CB Corp.

    CB Corp. Guest

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    #66
    really cool! very good sir! thanks for sharing here
     
    CB Corp., Jul 23, 2009 IP
  7. Foggy

    Foggy Link and Site Buyer

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    #67
    CandyCottonLover, yes, PR is part serious and part entertainment. However, I'd describe it differently. To me (and many other "experts") there are two types of PR - toolbar PR, the type you and I see; and the algo PR, the PR used in the determination of SERPs. They are not necessarily the same. In fact, tPR and aPR are likely a lot different for most pages. And Google doesn't disclose algo PR.

    So while webmasters are chasing tPR, Google is laughing that the splitting trick seems to have done the job of misdirecting webmaster efforts. ;)
     
    Foggy, Jul 23, 2009 IP
  8. Xtremetwodamax

    Xtremetwodamax Peon

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    #68
    I agree with that, why pay when you can get quality back links for free? My time spent in the venture of being a webmaster has been striking up affiliations and getting quality back links from high ranking websites with similar content.

    Even the co-administrator on my forum thinks that I'd be wasting time and money, by paying to have ads for my community placed on other websites.

    I try to get some back links from social networking sites as well, twitter can be useful for site updates and linking to your website as with other social networking sites.

    Content is also key, without get content others won't be inclined to link to your community nor will anyone be interested in joining, without decent content traffic will also suffer.
     
    Xtremetwodamax, Jul 23, 2009 IP
  9. xYvesx

    xYvesx Active Member

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    #69
    Bullshit linkexchange works very well but:

    You need different ips

    Dont link to yourself from your Linkexchange Website

    thats it.
     
    xYvesx, Jul 23, 2009 IP
  10. gauravajitsaria

    gauravajitsaria Peon

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    #70
    Foggy you seem to end the link exchange program here on DP. But really good post.
    Thanks for sharing.
     
    gauravajitsaria, Jul 23, 2009 IP
  11. Narrator

    Narrator Active Member

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    #71
    I get very good results with sitewide links, I dont mind if everyone stops buying them, because then they will be cheaper for me.

    I actually did a test for the effectiveness of sitewide links, you guys that don't believe they work can try it out.

    Step 1 - Build a new site in a moderate to low competiveness (this way you get fast results for the test)
    Step 2 - Find a group of blogs that show recent comments on the side below the blogroll. Try to make a list of atleast 20-30 and make sure they have do-follow links in comments.
    Step 3 - Comment on all the blogs
    Step 4 - Monitor the SERPs for your target keywords for a couple of weeks

    The way this test works is when you comment on those blogs you will start with a sitewide links on all the blogs. (I use yahoo site explorer to monitor the links since it finds them pretty fast) As other people comment on the blogs your "Recent Comment" will get pushed off and you will be just left with the links on the comment page. If your SERPs go up as your links get pushed, the sitewides didn't help. If they go down the sitewides did help.
     
    Narrator, Jul 23, 2009 IP
  12. incomesinternational.com

    incomesinternational.com Peon

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    #72
    I see only 3 statements in this thread worth taking notice of that have a factual and substantiated basis;

    Chasing PR is a waste of your time.
    Produce great content and get links naturally.
    Most of the SEO experts are actually speculators.

    The only way to know anything for certain is to test, review, test, review, test review....I think you get the idea. There are very few SEO's who actively test different things on an ongoing basis. Instead they just regurgitate everything that someone else has already claimed (without testing).

    The example of the press release that foggy gave is the perfect example of this.
     
  13. ramprop11

    ramprop11 Peon

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    #73
    Very informative post.Thanks
     
    ramprop11, Jul 23, 2009 IP
  14. Foggy

    Foggy Link and Site Buyer

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    #74
    incomesinternational, I'd have to disagree that there are only three statements worth taking notice of.

    The three statements you provide have, you say, a factual and substantiated basis? Where?

    Why basis do they have over and above other tips I've provided?

    They are all just an accumulation of educated guesswork by people who've achieved success with SEO. Which is the same as other claims I've made (including on the issues of sitewide, blogrolls, directories etc)

    Narrator, I won't rubbish your findings because they may well work. There's a freshness aspect of the Google algo that you may be skimming. But, those links won't stay fresh, won't stay as sitewide links and won't have any long term benefit. Besides, I wonder if the game is even worth the candle if the niche is so uncompetitive that you end up getting $1-2 CPM/eCPM (or less!) on almost negligible traffic. Have you tried scaling up the number/volume of blogs to see if this makes any headway on a money term?
     
    Foggy, Jul 24, 2009 IP
  15. blog8491

    blog8491 Notable Member

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    #75
    It seems this thread is a popular one in these days :D

    Thanks
    Blog.
     
    blog8491, Jul 24, 2009 IP
  16. bumbastic25

    bumbastic25 Peon

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    #76
    It amazes me that SEO is so dynamic,all those points you mentioned were good strategies at some point. Lets see what is the latest. twitter?
     
    bumbastic25, Jul 24, 2009 IP
  17. incomesinternational.com

    incomesinternational.com Peon

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    #77
    First of all, I'm not disagreeing with what you've been saying, on the contrary I agree with pretty much all of what you have said but to answer your question;

    1. tPR values as shown in almost all toolbars is cached, not current and therefore pointless wasting time even looking at it. So where can you identify what the aPR is? You can't. So in effect chasing tPR it a pointless pursuit. Google's aPR will be determined by many factors but there are only really 3 main focal points. Authority, page meta relevance and page content relevance. But where can you get the results for your page(s) and your efforts? Nowhere other than your SERPs. It's the only way to gauge it IMO and according to your own statements when you introduced the concept of tPR and aPR. So this one is substantiated through years of testing and known facts already widely published.

    2. Good content combined with clever link bait gets back links as does building up a social or business network. That's simply a fact. Introduce some other 'ethical' methods such as dofollow commenting, bum marketing or some more advanced tactics, also increases back links and combine that with good solid content updated frequently and the bots will sit up and take notice. SERPs will improve. This is also a fact. It's been tested many many times over. Sure there are ways to increase the speed at which you improve your results but that's external to this part of the discussion. In fact petehols actually used these methods (according to his journal right here on DP (I'll try to find the thread and update this with the link)).

    3. OK you've got me here. There is no other way to substantiate this one other than to hire say 20 SEO's. Give them each similar sites, with similar content and similar tPR, aPR, inbound links and outbound links, age, authoriy etc. etc.. If you're lucky, you might see one of those sites make it to the first page. Why? Simply because anyone can read a book, learn some theory and make some statements then call themselves a SEO right? I'm no SEO nor an expert but I do test frequently and I do check what other people say through testing. The results speak for themselves.

    I'm not questioning you, your qualifications, your theories or your statements. I guess I could have written it out like this the first time but I figured you'd get my point with the 3 shorter statements.

    The bottom line and the point I was trying to make is that no one other than Matt and his mates actually knows for absolute certain what it takes to get aPR10 from Google other than what we can prove through extensive and thorough testing.

    I hope that about clears it up.
    Cheers
     
  18. Foggy

    Foggy Link and Site Buyer

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    #78
    It's seems that we are largely in agreement.

    If you're arguing that results of years of testing constitute sufficient evidence then all my claims have sufficient evidence (rather than just the three you pick out) ;)

    Hey, I have no "qualifications" in SEO and I have no experience in SEO other than what I do on my own sites i.e. I'm not a professional SEO company (thank goodness, most of them are complete idiots if you go by the type of nonsense the spout on their sites). So I have no axe to grind, no case to make, no point to prove, no pitch to sell :)

    I am not soliciting SEO work. And I am not providing free PM advice or site evaluations ... so can people please stop with the PM requests for private, free SEO advice (or paid advice for that matter)! Talk to me only if you want to sell me links (and your site matches what I'm looking for)
     
    Foggy, Jul 27, 2009 IP
  19. SeoVeteran33

    SeoVeteran33 Well-Known Member

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    #79
    Nice post. I agree with what you have said and also enjoy a good laugh when I see people obsessed with PR, blog posts, and comments.

    I completely disagree with you about one point you made however.

    There is no way to accurately detect 3 way links. It just can't be done. The best you can do is "maybe that's a 3 way link".

    If you look at a 3 way link from a logical point of view, it's easy to see how it really isn't possible to detect.

    So you have: Site A links to B which links to C.

    Who's to say that the reason Site A links to B is because B is linking to C? Why are sites A and C related? How do you know they have the same owner? It's not necessary for them to be related or owned by the same person.

    Many people will say IP addresses help detect 3 ways. That's just circumstantial. With all the sites floating around on shared servers how many millions of them have the same IP anyways?
     
    SeoVeteran33, Jul 27, 2009 IP
  20. Foggy

    Foggy Link and Site Buyer

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    #80
    A ---> B ---> C
    A ---> D ---> C
    A ---> E ---> C
    A ---> F ---> C
    A ---> G ---> C
    A ---> H ---> C
    A ---> I ---> C
    A ---> J ---> C
    .
    .
    .

    How many links do you think Google needs before the system detects a pattern? Especially when they have all the other indicators like IP, Adsense pub ID, WHOIS, site design etc?

    I get a good laugh when I see them obsessed with three way linking ;)
     
    Foggy, Jul 27, 2009 IP