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Getting Your Book Published - Where And How

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by zac439, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. lor

    lor Active Member

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    #21
    Just a few comments on some of the posts here.

    One problem with self-publishing is that you are on your own when it comes to selling. Firstly, only you, friends and family are able to judge if the book is saleable and this is a biased group.

    With self-publishing, you have to do the marketing yourself. Vanity press publications are difficult for the author to get placed into bookshops, especially the biggies. They're just hard to sell and the writer could be stuck with 1000 first print copies of a book that only their family can boast about. Trust the agents you seek out. (They're the ones to see first. Not publishers. An agent will get you a much better contract than you can dealing directly with a publisher.) A good agent will give you an unbiased opinion and save you $1000's. Your family and friends won't.

    That being said, some self-published authors do make it on the best sellers list. I can't remember her name, but I was reading about a woman not too long ago who just couldn't find an agent or publisher and took the step of self-publishing, creating her own small publishing company. Her book became a bestseller. She would not have been in a position where she only made 5 - 10% on the retail price. She would have made much more. So it is possible. But do get unbiased opinions from reading groups before you make that investment.

    Today, writers who do end up getting signed with agents and credible publishers, still have to promote that book. They are expected to do signings and be willing to travel. If you don't push the book, it won't sell and the book will end up dying in the first print. No writer wants to see their book on the remainder table. So be prepared to work for it.

    Also, yes, Amazon does reap rewards for the author, but there's nothing like seeing your book physically on a shelf in a bookstore.

    Lor
     
    lor, Aug 28, 2008 IP
  2. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #22
    That's a good point about the vanity publishers. In that sense, the POD self-publishing companies do seem to have quite the edge.

    Some agents offer additional services, which is another alternative to reading groups. I wouldn't suggest going with one that charges a reading fee of course to consider being your agent, but some offer that extra editor / third party opinion for a cost if you're willing to pay them, without you soliciting them for their actual agent duties.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 28, 2008 IP
  3. lor

    lor Active Member

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    #23
    Actually, yes. And there are a few well-known authors I know personally who use them. They are successful, largely due to Amazon who is willing to list them and open them up for those always important reviews. However, the writers still have to push the work like crazy to create that buzz and most new authors with Pods, haven't a clue how to do this or aren't willing. I could tell you a million stories about what new authors expect ... it boggles.

    I'm a bit of an elitist snob myself, so I'll never take the pod route personally. I'd rather be a fiction writer without a home. (Hope nobody I know is reading this). The thing is, the work has to stand on its own. As writers, we are our worst judges and we know that. If it falls flat with numerous agents, it's a pretty good indication something's wrong with the work.

    Lor
     
    lor, Aug 28, 2008 IP
  4. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #24
    Book PR is one of the areas I worked in (and blog about) before I quit consulting recently, so yeah, I've heard some horror stories. lol Unfortunately, just as many from those with "real" publishers who find out the hard way that they're expected to manage a site or blog, solicit their own interviews, get to signings, do speaking events, etc. I think the shock value of the marketing hits some of them more than the shock of getting that first book contract. :D

    I'm not really sure how I feel about PODs yet. I have fiction and non-fiction projects in the works. The fiction I can see myself pursuing more traditional publishers for. But for one non-fiction case (a series of short books on indie music marketing and band business, which I may just do as e-books or reports - I keep changing my mind), sometimes the niche is just so small that PODs make more sense (in this case it's a narrow niche, I'm very well networked in the indie music scene, and I have the promotional background myself - so a publisher wouldn't bring much to the table). On the other hand, I'm slowly getting closer to finishing a marketing-oriented book which would probably carry much more weight with a traditional publisher. They each have their place. My "elitist snob" side I think is more concerned with giving up control of the project (too many stories of difficult agents and major editor drama I suppose). I've also always been a DIY girl all the way - just not sure I like some of the risks and terms with some of the POD places. Only time will tell I suppose.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 28, 2008 IP
  5. lor

    lor Active Member

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    #25
    Well, that was a very humming and hawing, thinking-out-loud sort of post.

    If I were you, I'd ...

    1)Save the fiction for the traditional book publisher. For fiction writers, being published by the Random Houses of this world is our goal. What a coupe.

    2)For the biz stuff, create your own publishing house. It is apparent you have oodles of experience in promoting, marketing etc. and you could use the internet to flog it just as well if not better than those pods. You'd have to do it yourself anyway, ... so .... do it yourself.

    You've already answered this, so get buzzed, girl. Time's awastin'. :)
    Lor
     
    lor, Aug 28, 2008 IP
  6. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #26
    Learn to love it, 'cause I'm full of 'em. :D j/k (Actually, so much so that I started a blog a few weeks back for that sole purpose.)

    1. That's kind of how I feel - At the same time, I have a lot of experience in dealing with various forms of nonfiction, but fiction is like my new pet. I'm still hoping it won't bite. So having someone there to help me out with questions and such (like an agent) would be a good idea.

    2. I have a friend who did that maybe a year ago actually. I remember it being a lot of fun, and a lot of headache (isn't everything? lol). I'm not sure what I'll do at this point. Right now my mind's in getting the writing done and getting the pre-launch / pre-pitching stuff out of the way (blogs setup to build lists for example to demonstrate an audience if I pitch to publishers). I started drafting recently from one of the novel outlines, am trying to work in time on the marketing book, and am finishing up the first in an e-book series for Web writers - 3 things is enough to juggle on top of day-to-day business for right now. :) I'll get there though. The day I can finally start doing these things full-time (not just books, but including my e-books and sites in that) will be my first day in Heaven. :D
     
    jhmattern, Aug 28, 2008 IP
  7. lor

    lor Active Member

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    #27
    = coup

    Oh, I hate that.

    Good luck with all your projects, Jenn
    I'll have a boo at all your outside-of-dp stuff, today. I see a few links here and there.

    Lor

    edited to add

    I do have a blog for my fiction writing, but it's too prissy to show on DP. My interests are in 17th and 18th century London. Historical fiction. Not historical romance.

    I've signed up for a website for my article writing, but no clue how to set it up. I need a good long block of time to understand it. I really think I need it and it needs to be in my sig everywhere. My niche is gardening and I wonder if I should just specialize in that area. There is a huge online market for it, but I don't know if I should. Your opinion may convince me one way or the other. Any thoughts?

    Lor
     
    lor, Aug 29, 2008 IP
  8. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #28
    Awwww.... show us the "prissy" blog!

    Which site did you sign up for? Chances are others here have used it, so they may be able to help. :)

    And I'm always a big pusher of specialization, especially in Web writing, so if you know a lot about it, enjoy it, and are confident enough to charge what you're worth in that niche, go for it. :)
     
    jhmattern, Aug 29, 2008 IP
  9. lor

    lor Active Member

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    #29
    When I get to the host and start messing around, I'm sure I'll have questions then, but I don't know what they may be yet. The thing is, I haven't a clue how to begin. lol It'll be at least a week of fussing and frustration.

    I'm convinced. Gardening it is. My domain is originalarticle.net (kind of a play on words) (dot com was gone), but I may find something more akin to garden writing and get it changed before I begin. Lots of mulling today.

    Thanks for your thoughts
    Lor
     
    lor, Aug 29, 2008 IP
  10. Mezmer

    Mezmer Peon

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    #30
    I agree with you. Nowadays book publishing is not all about flashy publishers or good advertising. The books that get the choch are those which are great insiders. So one can self publish a book and hope for it to do equally well as the other published books in market. Just make sure the matter is at the right place and there are plentiful readers out there.
     
    Mezmer, Aug 29, 2008 IP
  11. Cathubodua

    Cathubodua Peon

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    #31
    From all I've read, it's quite complicated to become a published writer in the US or elsewhere...

    What are the steps I should take if I'm from a small country like Romania (Eastern Europe) and I don't write in my native language, but in English? At the moment I write fiction short stories for my own pleasure, from time to time, as I have a full-time job (web copywriter) and I don't know anybody in this publishing business...

    Please advise. :eek:
     
    Cathubodua, Sep 2, 2008 IP
  12. lor

    lor Active Member

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    #32
    That's a loaded question, but the short response is, it's not complicated, but frustrating with lots of ups and downs.

    If your interest is in short story writing, you may want to consider submitting to some of the smaller literary magazines. Google "literary magazine/journal/quartarly" (that's 3 separate googles) and you will get hundreds. Most will have a submissions page. They don't pay a great deal, but for a beginning writer, the point is to build a history. You don't need to find an agent if you take this route.

    Most traditional book publishers won't even look at a collection of short stories, unless you are already a well-known author.

    Hope that helps a bit.

    Lor
     
    lor, Sep 2, 2008 IP
  13. Cathubodua

    Cathubodua Peon

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    #33
    Thank you for the response.

    I've been working on something for some time, I don't know if it's really a short story, more like a short novel :) and it's not finished yet. It may have great potential, it may not. But I'm interested in finding it out. Are there specialized people that can judge the value of my work, before attempting to publish it in magazines/journals? Are there any risks involved in doing so (copyright issues)?

    Because I'm new at this, I want to find out as much as I can. And I'm not interested in money, meaning I don't care if these magazines pay for it, first I just want to know if it's any good.

    Thank you again for the advice. :)
     
    Cathubodua, Sep 2, 2008 IP
  14. tankard

    tankard Well-Known Member

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    #34
    I can reassure it is hard in Great Britain. One of the projects my colleague printed himself went down the drain without attracting any interest from BIG bookshops. From what we gathered, all promotional copies + generous discounts went straight into their bins. They didn't even bother to open our neat envelopes. Now we're selling it online and I estimate it will take 3 years to sell the lot :eek:

    That's a great tip. Harder it is when you're a children's author/illustrator (not me, the buddy of mine, I'm trying to help her) - there are almost no magazines that would accept submissions.

    From your experience, it is useless to send promo material directly to booksellers unless one is not an established name, isn't it?
     
    tankard, Sep 2, 2008 IP
  15. lor

    lor Active Member

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    #35
    I suggest you join an online writer's group. There are several very good ones. There, you can post small sections of your work for critiques and those are invaluable for a beginning writer. Do add a copyright (copyright name name 2008) to anything you post. You'll learn so much in those forums; It's probably the best route for you to take right now.

    Copyright
    Once written, you own it, basically. You don't have to register it or anything like that, if that is what you are asking. Most writers don't steal work, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened or won't happen. It does, but considering the amount of written material in print, it is rare. Do add the copyright tag to anything you offer on the net. It's a small safety net.

    Lor
     
    lor, Sep 2, 2008 IP
  16. lor

    lor Active Member

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    #36
    Tankard
    Sure, there are. I've seen them. Darn, I wish I filed the links.

    Try googling something like "fairy tale literary magazine," or "children's literature," or variations. I know they're out there. I'm busy now, but I'll try and sort out what I have. Maybe I kept them.

    Lor
     
    lor, Sep 2, 2008 IP
  17. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #37
    Not really. The key, as with anything, is to follow their rules, and if they don't have guidelines published - ask. I know independent authors who are in the book stores (online and off), and I know ones who have really struggled with that and can't get in with booksellers. There's no hard and fast rule.
     
    jhmattern, Sep 2, 2008 IP
  18. deepower

    deepower Well-Known Member

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    #38
    Most of the marketing for a book is not aimed at the final consumer, the reader that buys the book, but at the bookstore buyers and wholesalers and distributors. And yes the publisher does the majority of the work because the author doesn't have access to the bookstore buyers, wholesalers, and distributors. Even if they did these entities wouldn't take the author seriously.

    This marketing consists of including the title in the publisher's catalog which is distributed to book buyers/wholesalers/distributors, sending out a sales force to talk with and take orders, pitching the book to libraries (a huge market) and sending out press releases, galley copies, and review copies.

    Yes, an author could send out press releases but without a review copy included with the press release it's almost useless. The trade publications won't accept review copies from the author. In any event those review copies have to be provided 4 to 6 months before pub date.

    Most newspapers book review editors won't review a self pubbed book or POD book (I know this because I asked over 50 major newspapers). If the author is local there's a reasonable chance the lifestyle editor might do a feature, especially if the topic of the book is timely.

    The major publishers promote all their titles and that makes sense. Front list titles get more promotion than midlist (where most of the titles are). Why have a print run of 5000 copies (which is a small run), pay the artist to design the cover, an editor to copy edit and the author an advance if they don't expect to sell many copies? That's probably an outlay of $10,000 for the copies, another $3,000 for cover and editing and a $5000 advance for the author.

    Most books don't get advertising unless they're a household name like James Patterson or Nora Roberts because advertising doesn't sell books. And truth be told the bestselling authors don't need the promotional efforts because they've already built up a fan base.

    You should absolutely do a book proposal even if you self publish. It will keep you on track as you write the book. And a marketing plan is even more critical if you self pub. Both Borders and Barnes and Noble require a written marketing plan for self pubbed books. They also require that the book be available through Ingram's or Baker and Taylor, and not be POD. The only way for an author to get in Ingram's is to be accepted by a distributor. And, you guessed it, the distributor requires a marketing plan with submission of the book.

    Book publishing can be confusing. There are two separate markets: books written for consumers and sold through retail outlets and books that aren't meant for the general public. Those books account for about half of books published by commercial trade publishers and are school books, college text books, technical manuals, medical books, and corporate publication.

    About half of the books for consumers are sold through bookstores, from 10% to 15% through online venues, and the remainder through grocers, drugstores and big box stores. If you're self pubbing the odds are the only avenue you have easy access to is online.

    Marketing and publicity are important in the success of any book, but the book has to be accessible and available to the public otherwise the publicity is pretty much a waste. Should the author promote their books? Yes, of course, but that promotion should be complimentary to what the publisher does, not replace it.

    One of the biggest stumbling blocks POD books have is that the pricing and discounts aren't industry standard so bookstores won't stock them and distributors won't promote them. Industry standard means that the book must be returnable to the publisher for one year, the discount is 55% from the retail price (this is split 40% to the bookstore and 15% to the distributor), 90 days to pay, and competitively priced.

    Even amazon requires a 55% discount, over 90 days to pay, and the book has to be returnable to the publisher. As far as POD you have to publish through Booksurge, their subsidiary, or join Amazon advantage which requires 5 copies sent to them and a $25 yearly membership fee plus the 55% discount.

    I am biased in this respect. I have had 3 books commercially published and was paid 5 figure advances (without the decimal point) for each. One of those books was about the book publishing industry. And I have self pubbed one book. ( I also have several niche ebooks but that's a different topic)

    In my experience, and in my research, it is much more difficult to have a self pubbed book be successful. You also should realize that I am a writer by trade. The commercially published books are considered writing credits the self pubbed book isn't. Would I self publish again? Probably not, but I will continue ebook publishing.

    Hope this helped.

    Dee
    My authors' website http://www.brianhillanddeepower.com
    __________________
     
    deepower, Sep 2, 2008 IP
  19. Cathubodua

    Cathubodua Peon

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    #39
    Thank you, this is an excellent suggestion. I'll Google it. Any recommended links would also be great. :)
     
    Cathubodua, Sep 3, 2008 IP
  20. deepower

    deepower Well-Known Member

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    #40
    Cathubodua

    If you post your work make sure it is in a private forum that requires a password. Some publishers consider anything posted in a public forum as published, which means you've given away first rights. I know that doesn't seem fair and not all publishers look at it that way, but there you are.

    A good forum for writers that is helpful is http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums You have to join to post.

    Dee
     
    deepower, Sep 3, 2008 IP