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Suggestion Get the Link Peddlers out of the Directories section

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by CReed, Oct 25, 2009.

  1. msolution

    msolution Well-Known Member

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    #61
    sorry for the delay in response,... but i do strongly support the discussion started by Creed, threads like these not only create a mess in that section but brand the whole directory industry likewise!


    my condolences to u and your family.


    and did someone teach me 2 + 2 = 4;

    i move a motion to move the whole section of SaA subforum under the BST section,...

    if u kill it,... spammers will dirty somewhere else,... so keep it but move it out of the way!
    SEMrush
    i would rather agree than disagree, searching for an editor who is totally unbiased would be more than difficult, but all the same leaving a section un-moderated or rather under moderated is no solution too!

    a problem at your doorstep: i see none of the old directory owners around, ... all i see is stupid questions, age old threads being bumped up, and people who have no intention of creating directories or even know what a directory is asking "Are directories helpful?":rolleyes::eek:

    .... make a call!!!:)


    M.
     
    msolution, Nov 11, 2009 IP
    CReed likes this.
    SEMrush
  2. msolution

    msolution Well-Known Member

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    #62
    just wondering if this issues would be/ was looked into ?
     
    msolution, Nov 15, 2009 IP
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  3. CReed

    CReed Prominent Member

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    #63
    I'm not sure, but I'm going to guess that if the threads are not reported, then it's likely nothing is going to happen. Hard do do anything to rectify a problem if you're unaware of it.
     
    CReed, Nov 21, 2009 IP
  4. an0n

    an0n Prominent Member

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    #64
    I know I have offered to become a moderator of the directory section.
    I also know that in doing so I'd have to be unbiased at all costs and be able to step back and moderate accordingly.

    I know I can do it without bias, but I think that guys/gals like robjones, swedal, creed, even ymc would be good choices.

    Why they get overlooked is honestly beyond me. I just hope DP can eventually come to a resolution and eventually understand that they do need to get some help into those specific sections.

    This is just my .o2 which probably isn't worth the .o2, but I hope you(shawn) can get it sorted out soon.

    Anywho, Merry X-Mas to all.
     
    an0n, Dec 24, 2009 IP
  5. Smyrl

    Smyrl Tomato Republic Staff

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    #65
    By all means report problems when you see them.

    Hillary Clinton, is known for the phrase, "It takes a village." With an online community it takes each member of the community to keep community functioning properly.
     
    Smyrl, Dec 24, 2009 IP
  6. theapparatus

    theapparatus Peon

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    #66
    I believe Shawn takes the "If you volunteer, you're automatically disallowed from ever becoming one here" approach to his moderator staff.
     
    theapparatus, Dec 24, 2009 IP
  7. CReed

    CReed Prominent Member

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    #67
    Why should the membership continue to report such posts when there is no indication that any changes will be made with regards to this issue?

    Just a bit discouraging and disappointing.
     
    CReed, Dec 25, 2009 IP
    theapparatus likes this.
  8. Brian1970

    Brian1970 Notable Member

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    #68
    Totally agree with that statement.

    I have spent some time reporting posts in the directory section, after doing so time and time again; I just avoid the section now. What’s the point if a spam post is just replaced by another spam post? The directory section needs quick action; some reported posts have taken days to be removed.

    Thanks Brian
     
    Brian1970, Dec 26, 2009 IP
  9. CReed

    CReed Prominent Member

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    #69
    I've recently reported a couple of posts, but they still remain so I wonder if it does any good to bring up issues such as this and try to follow throiugh with the suggestions.

    PR5 Bid Directory
    PR 5 Bid Directory Add Url
     
    CReed, Dec 30, 2009 IP
  10. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #70
    Just keep reporting. We don't get to them immediately. We work through the list as we can. There can be hundreds of reports a day, and they do get backlogged. But if you see a problem, report it.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 30, 2009 IP
  11. CReed

    CReed Prominent Member

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    #71
    They were reported on the 27th and 28th. Several posts reported since then have been acted on. Easy enough to get the impression that I have as a result. ;)

    Cheers.
     
    CReed, Dec 30, 2009 IP
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  12. TikTok

    TikTok Peon

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    #72
    I got Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 for Xmas....so I've chosen to prioritize my free time. :)

    Unpaid, unappreciated forum moderation vs. sleek first-person-shooter action....you decide.
     
    TikTok, Dec 30, 2009 IP
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  13. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #73
    I turned in a very obvious multiple ID case...
    ... two or three times this week and you guys have done zip. Not only does one person show up giving their name AND email on two different accounts... on one of the accounts 3 different people ID themself as the owner of the ID.

    Sample: 1 person on 2 accounts

    1. Sample: 3 people on 1 account...
    2. Anthony
    3. Catherine
    4. Joni
    I did your research, it's cut and dried and laid out for you. How hard is it to hit the button? Why should we bother reporting if nothing happens?

    Yes, I realize you're volunteers, but...
    Many of us do the job elsewhere, and we know how it is supposed to be done. You have some very good mods, but you also have some that never login for months at a time, mods on paper only. As a result you cannot handle the load or you wouldnt be backlogged.

    Part of the problem is the revolving door
    Somebody spams the heck outta the place or creates multiple IDs to perform puppet shows and theyre banned a few months. They dont act any better when they return, but I see the same guys return from bans all the time. Does DP need the numbers that badly or might the place be a bit better off with less spammers?

    The responsible members are stuck wading in spam because of the seige mentality here (see posts in this thread for reference)... an "us vs them" mindset where you imagine everyone else is untrusworthy. So you just dont appoint anyone to to the task.

    Lest you think I'm suggesting I could do it better,
    Yes, I believe I could, but I dont want the role. It's been so neglected in some areas it'd be a full time job. I'm just trying to explain that if you guys cant handle it, and I dont think there is any question about that at this point... quit being martyrs and appoint enough good people to do the job. It isnt improving with age.

    My 2 cents.
     
    robjones, Dec 30, 2009 IP
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  14. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #74
    2-3 days isn't long at all for the report queue. And it's not necessarily dealt with in the order they're reported. It depends entirely on which mod happens to be looking at the queue. Some start with the first page (most recently reported). Some go to the oldest. Sometimes when our time is limited we'll even do a search of the section for particular types of reports we know we can clear out in bulk quickly. So others being dealt with means absolutely nothing.

    Rob -- How did you report the duplicate? For something like that, your best bet is PMing an active mod directly because duplicate account issues take us more time to go in and verify than simple reports like bumping, etc. If you did PM someone, perhaps they aren't checking in much due to it being a holiday season where several of us are taking some time off.

    As for them coming back, believe me, that's not all of our choices. But it's not up to us. There are at least a few of us that want stricter rules and permanent bans for that kind of crap and the ability to ban for things like illegal sales (warez, copyright infringement, etc.) like we used to. Again, not our choice. If we had the luxury of being harsher on them we would be, but we don't. When we used to be there were the "nazi mod" complaints because people were getting banned. And now we have claims that we're not doing anything. No matter what we do we can't win. personally I'd rather have us insulted for getting rid of the bottom-feeders rather than letting them stay, but like I said, not my choice. We're well aware of the concerns though and at more than one time some of us have been extremely vocal about it. Our hands are simply tied when it comes to some of these issues.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 30, 2009 IP
  15. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #75
    I reported via the report mechanism. One of the instances I also put into the thread itself as well. Having removed about 50 IDs that crew built at another forum I sorta felt justified in pointing out the duplicity here.

    As for the revolving door... Shawn's welcome to look at this thread, and HE does have a choice. Nobody likes it when you call their baby ugly, but the active-mod to active-member login ratio here is absolutely atrocious. There are roughly 100 possible forums for spammers and scammers to hide in just on the front page... and there are frequently only a couple of mods online to handle it. That's impossible. Saying so isnt a slam to the mods, the place doesnt have enough to do the job. Period. That isnt an opinion, thats a physical fact.

    A multiple day wait on reports is just silly, and simply a function of having the mod crew understaffed. Cant be done even marginally correctly with the number available even if everyone on the role were present 24/7, and some arent even on as often as the average member.

    I also reported a scammer this week, and I have seen evidence that you guys should have previously been aware he'd done a "puppet show" where one of his IDs was bolstering the product offered by his other ID. If you'd booted both of his IDs permanently THEN he wouldnt be around to be stealing money from the members NOW. He's still here btw.

    Sure, he could sign up again, but he wouldnt have the perceived cred of a long membership and some (probably undeserved) I-trader. Banning permanently is the proper action when someone uses multiple IDs to give undeserved credibility to a product or person. There isnt any halfway measure that works. You should REMOVE them. Their ethics dont get better if they get an infraction, and the members shouldnt be exposed to known scammers.
     
    robjones, Dec 30, 2009 IP
  16. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #76
    We don't even have the technical ability to ban an account permanently anymore, so that simply isn't an option atm. We ban them for 3 months, and then Shawn merges the accounts (which causes other problems for us down the road b/c we have less info available on the backend then to compare future dupes to). I agree with you completely that banning permanently is the proper action in those kinds of cases (which would actually be 6 months for shilling rather than a dupe acct ban). It's a nightmare. We know it is. But as things are now, we're very limited in what we can do.

    We've also known for a long time that there aren't enough mods. Periodically we nominate folks and take a vote. Very few usually get past that vetting process, and it's for a variety of reasons (habitual rule breakers themselves, a tendency to pick fights or attack others, people who have shown extreme bias in the areas we know they'd be actively moderating, etc. - I think we've even come across a few nominees a while back who were duplicates, which we only discovered on looking into them before voting). It's always a difficult process, and you're right in that we should probably do it again. Then again, if we'll be updating to 4.0 soon it might even complicate things more to get new mods used to one system only to spring changes on them -- so after the upgrade might be better (although that depends on how far down the road that is).

    So I don't know. Maybe Shawn will finally change things back so mods aren't crippled in dealing with some of these issues or maybe he won't. And maybe we'll be able to get a few new mods in the new year. We seem to add a few each year, so it does look like it's about time anyway. It's not always a quick process and I doubt enough folks will be around until after the holiday to get a good list of our nominations together for Shawn and others to look over, but when I'm back from vaca (not even supposed to be on here now) I'll start a thread in the mod board to see if anyone has idea. That's about all anyone can promise in the immediate future.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 30, 2009 IP
  17. alistair80

    alistair80 Well-Known Member

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    #77
    I agree 100%. I'd add pipes too in the list.
     
    alistair80, Dec 31, 2009 IP
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  18. Firegirl

    Firegirl Peon

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    #78
    Good discussion jhmattern and robjones. Some good points brought up.

    The job of mod is hard, especially since it's voluntary. But, I do agree with robjones that it gets frustrating when you report something and it sticks around for a long time before it gets removed. I was really looking forward to the Hardware and Games sections, but 80% of the posts there are complete crap. And some don't really break the rules, but it's obvious some posts are used just to run up post count. Really hate when people just create threads that ask stupid questions like "how many hours do you play video games?" and "what's your favorite color?". Ugh.

    I have never used vBulletin personally, but is there a way to have different levels of mods? I know there is mod and admin, but is there anything in between? Like have mods that can only mod one section and only give certain infractions? I agree with robjones that we need TONS more mods, but I understand the hesitation in dishing out power. If there was a way to start them out small, and if they do well and are visiting the forums regularly, then Shawn could graduate them up later. This might help with the nomination process if you could "try people out" first.

    Just think if there were levels, it would help the more experienced mods handle the larger situations and weed out the small, easily noticed problems for the lower level mods. Yes, the lower level will need to call upon the higher level, but at least you would be getting bugged by another mod and not the constant crying users....
     
    Firegirl, Dec 31, 2009 IP
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  19. theapparatus

    theapparatus Peon

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    #79
    Or if ever.

    Like this guy:

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/member.php?u=250825

    And his threads:

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1633952

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1623400

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1605195

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1596249

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1587032

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1577656

    I know I've reported this person previously a couple of times now.

    edit: Thank you to whomever did the follow up as most of those have now been deleted. There's more but they go back a few months.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
    theapparatus, Dec 31, 2009 IP
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