If you ever read the Qur`an, you would know the history behind Muhammad is that he had a seizure problem.
All muslims read the Qur'an every day, at least while praying, but thank you for revealing to us your ignorance. prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, had people like you as problems and he successfully finish them. Such is the light finishes the darkness.
As much heavy the honey gets, as much sweetness it gives. Actually, the one who knows the truth must announce it, regardless of people's satisfaction. You don't need to consider me at all, consider the Truth that Honored me and caused to exist. Without the Truth, we are just nothing.
I see tolerance of others is not your strong point. Does your God command you to be rude and obnoxious to others who think differently that you do?
It is not just me imad, most people, scholars, who actually understand what Islam's rules say that it does require a death sentence for male apostates. I am glad you disagree and think there should be no punishment. Here is what wiki says about apostates in Islam... According to most scholars, if a Muslim consciously and without coercion declares their rejection of Islam and does not change their mind after the time given to him/her by a judge for research, then the penalty for male apostates is death, and for women, life imprisonment. However, this view has been rejected by a small minority of modern Muslim scholars (eg Hasan al-Turabi), who argues that the hadith in question should be taken to apply only to political betrayal of the Muslim community, rather than to apostasy in general.[10] These scholars regard apostasy as a serious crime, but argue for the freedom to convert to and from Islam without legal penalty, and consider the aforementioned Hadith quote as insufficient justification for capital punishment. Today apostasy is punishable by death in the countries of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan, Mauritania and the Comoros. In Qatar apostasy is a capital offense, but no executions have been reported for it.[11] source
I wouldn't say atheism has a lack of knowledge, considering they read everything and anything, hell a lot of them would probably be much better at your religion than you! How's that for size? They are lucky to have such wisdom aren't they? They never have to fight, they have nothing to worry about, nobody else but them and the world.
Ben Laden didn't attack USA, he is an old man living in Afganistan, he didn't ride any plane to bomb you, all what he is doing is expressing his opinion freely about USA and Israel and what should be done for them, but I see you willing to finish Ben Laden even if that would cause you to kill many innocent people around there. You are brag about your country and its great job there, killing no one but the innocent for about 8 years and enhancing trade of drugs. Any way, the following event is mentioned in all the books of history of prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him and his family, as well as the trustee books of Hadith such as Albukari and Muslim books: While the prophet was sleeping under the shade of a tree, hanging his sword on it, a man of the disbelievers of Najd found that a chance to kill him. So he came to the prophet slightly and took his sword and shouted "O Mohammad! Who does protect you from me?" The prophet said confidently: "Allah". The man fell down and the prophet took the sword saying: "Who does protect you from me?" the man said: "Be the best taker." The prophet left him. Mohammad was a represntative of The Truth and a guidance for people and Mercy for them. Those who rejected the Mercy are those who went to Hell.
Why would you even quote me in your post, if you cannot respond to the actual incident in your religious text that I've posted? You can point out nicer stories of Muhammad, which are from the beginning when he had no power. Once he did have power, and followers, he spent the last years of his life murdering, looting, and enslaving people. How many people did Muhammad have beheaded, thousands?
He is paying the price for 'expressing' his opinion. Do you have a problem with that? Why do you come on to an American forum to sympathize with Islamic terrorists? Did you support the Islamic attack on America on 9/11?
Imad - I didn't get that from the verse in question. My understanding is: if the apostate leaves the area, leave them be. If they choose to stay, kill them. If so, I condemn that, as I condemn any notion that a free choice made by one is to be constrained by violence or its threat - something I believe, from talking with many Muslims over the last several years, is shared by most practicing Muslims. If I have it wrong, I am open to discussing this further. Polite_teen, I don't know what to say. I think one either believes Bin Laden is a perversion of Islam, someone to be condemned as an enemy to true Islam; or one believes his lessons, gleaned from the works and thought of Sayyid Qutb, are exemplar to Islam. If the former, I stand with all Muslims who seek peace, and a peaceful means to achieve an audience on the world stage. If the latter, I stand in unequivocal opposition to the worldview.
a quick note: NPT, your understanding in not correct, for several reasons, the main one is that the verses are speaking about hypocrites, not apostates. edit: it is good to have a thread for general questions, but in order not to make this thread turn to one subject, anybody who is interested in knowing more, can start a thread especially for the subject of apostasy.
Imad, as we've started the subject here, I'd prefer to stay on this thread, rather than start an entirely new thread. Now, you say that the verse deals with "hypocrites," and not apostates, thanks, I'll consider this; but for now, I'll presume we're dealing with "hypocrites." If I'm understanding you, you're saying this is a historical case of some who essentially conspired together to stir up the waters, in a word. And the verses you quoted essentially say, if they drop conspiracy, but remain unbelievers, they are to be left untouched? Is this about right? Secondly, you mentioned you hadn't seen a cite on this forum where a Muslim indicated a belief that, yes, apostasy is to be met with death. Again, I provided one, though I've seen at least one other. Nevertheless, Menj purports to be preaching and promulgating a true understanding of Islam. Please see, for instance, http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/. You would then say, his understanding of Islam is also therefore incorrect, in this respect (of apostasy)? I am presuming you would agree, Bin Laden's vision of Islam is a heretical perversion of Islam - correct? Thanks.
I was replying not for you only, but for the quote you brought as well. Indeed, his story is full of glory, he was very very nice in Makkah, no doubt on that at all, but the result was more oppressions and more attack for his religion and his followers. Finally, they decided to kill him, but God saved him from them: And Verily, they were about to frighten you so much as to drive you out from the land. But in that case they would not have stayed (therein) after you, expcept for a little while. (76) (This was Our) Sunnah (rule or way) with the Messengers We sent before you, and you will not find any alteration in Our Sunnah (rule or way). (77) Perform prayer from mid-day till the darkness of the night, and recite the Qur'ân in the early dawn (i.e. the morning prayer). Verily, the recitation of the Qur'ân in the early dawn is ever witnessed. (78) And in some parts of the night (also) offer the prayer with it (i.e. recite the Qur'an in the prayer), as an additional prayer for you. It may be that your Lord will raise you to a station of praise and glory. (79) And say: My Lord! Let my entry (to the city of Al-Madinah) be good, and (likewise) my exit (from the city of Makkah) be good. And grant me from You an authority to help me. (80) God could punish the disbelievers from the first time, but He gave them chances and support His messenger with forbearance. Then after 13 years of disbelief and arrogance, God supported His messenger with Power to finish the falsehood and its supporters. Say: This is my Way: I call on Allah with sure knowledge. I and whosoever followeth me - Glory be to Allah! - and I am not of the idolaters. (108) We sent not before thee (any messengers) save men whom We inspired from among the folk of the townships - Have they not travelled in the land and seen the nature of the consequence for those who were before them? And verily the abode of the Hereafter, for those who ward off (evil), is best. Have ye then no sense? - (109) Till, when the messengers despaired and thought that they were denied, then came unto them Our help, and whom We would was saved. And Our wrath cannot be warded from the guilty. (110) In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is no invented story but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe. (111).
I will come to this later on. Just take this question: Why do you come on to an American forum to sympathize with zionist terrorists?
I sympathize with America and its allies. Why again do you support terrorists just because they are Muslim?
yes, the verse you quoted [Qur'an 4:89] is speaking about "they", without referring to the previous verse we won't know who are they, or whether they are hypocrites, or apostates, reading the verse right before it, it shows that it deals with hypocrites, it is not me who says it deals with them, but how it came to the result that they are hypocrites? who are involved in hostile actions against Muslims? how to deal with those hypocrites? and before, how to be able to know if they are hypocrites or not? the answer is in the following verses, the one you quoted and the next ones: this verse you quoted continues to speak about the hypocrites, and set a guidance how to deal with them, they should not be taken as friends or protectors, or allies, until they emigrate, the part I put in bold, shows that they do not live in Medina, where Muslims were seeking refugee from the unbeliever people of Mecca then, who were torturing or killing anybody who is a Muslim, for those who do not live in Medina, and who said they are Muslims, the demand was for them to emigrate to Medina, according to this, there will be 2 types: 1- Muslims, and those are the ones who emigrated to Medina. 2- Apostates, those who declared themselves as Muslims earlier, but later rejected Islam by failing to emigrate as been commanded. the first is known, Muslims are brothers and sisters, but how about the second type? the verses goes further to speak about them, by categorizing them in three types: 1- Those who are allies with a group or a person, with whom Muslims have a peace treaty, which can be read in the verse: 2- Those who decide to keep neutral, and who do not wish to fight Muslims or Meccan's, which can be read in the verse: those two should be left in peace, in other words, Qur'an actually prohibits the killing of apostates who want to live in peace with Muslims, and this goes along with the general rule: but still, there is a third type of apostates, that should be killed wherever they are found, by excluding these above two exceptions, the type left is the apostates who: 3- ally themselves with non-believers, and who are engaged in hostile actions against Muslims. this makes it clear, that they should be killed, because they decided to fight Muslims, not for their beliefs, in the same sense, when we say, a Muslim murderer should be put to death, does that mean a Muslim should be put to death? so now, if you see someone who is Muslim, and who says, apostates should be killed, then ask him first to define apostate, and does this include those apostates who want to live in peace with Muslims? I hope you direct your questions to menj, and I will ask him/her with you, the two above questions, I hope he will answer. there are some as I mentioned earlier, whom they read the word apostate, it in the same sense as they read the word (spy, traitor, double agent..) those must know, that not all apostates want to harm Muslims, and it is not left to me, or them, to decide, there should be always a reference from Qur'an, the true, and undoubted God's word.